Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)
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i'll see if I can find it and post it!
Ranking Aptitude
1 Team working skills
2 A/C handling
3 Leadership
4 Personality
5 Customer awareness
6 Technical knowledge
7 Education
8 Presentation and appearance
9 Previous employment
10 Family background
Ranking Aptitude
1 Team working skills
2 A/C handling
3 Leadership
4 Personality
5 Customer awareness
6 Technical knowledge
7 Education
8 Presentation and appearance
9 Previous employment
10 Family background
Last edited by mcgoo; 29th Oct 2006 at 17:35. Reason: to add table
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Whist the ATPL subjects do not require any Maths and Physics Knowledge beyond GCSE, doing them at A Level will help a great deal in training your brain to think in an scientific/ numerical way and enable you to visualise concepts so much easier.
With decent GCSEs in Maths and Physics you will have enough basic knowledge to take on the ATPLs, if you do them at A Level and get decent grades you will eat the maths/ physics based areas of the course for breakfast.
Re French in the ATPLs, any one remember this question :
What is meant by the abbreviation HJ with respect to Aerodrome Opening times?
"Hors Jour", french for daytime hours! Knowing a bit of French helped me get that one right.
Might be worth doing a language or two at A Level if you think that in a future airline career you will be highly likely to be flying to foreign countries. What better way to woo the foreign hotties than impressing them with your knowledge of their own language. Personally id choose Portugese if your school offers it, those Brazillian girls do it for me every time!
With decent GCSEs in Maths and Physics you will have enough basic knowledge to take on the ATPLs, if you do them at A Level and get decent grades you will eat the maths/ physics based areas of the course for breakfast.
Re French in the ATPLs, any one remember this question :
What is meant by the abbreviation HJ with respect to Aerodrome Opening times?
"Hors Jour", french for daytime hours! Knowing a bit of French helped me get that one right.
Might be worth doing a language or two at A Level if you think that in a future airline career you will be highly likely to be flying to foreign countries. What better way to woo the foreign hotties than impressing them with your knowledge of their own language. Personally id choose Portugese if your school offers it, those Brazillian girls do it for me every time!
Hovering AND talking
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Differentiate distance with time and you get speed, differentiate speed with time and you get acceleration! Calculus is around us everyday!
I did my O-Levels and A-Levels so long ago that I cannot remember the level to which trig was studied at each stage. But, to my way of thinking, if you have a mathematical brain, then maths A-levels are easy money to get good grades!
Having looked the trig in Nav just recently, my gut instinct is that it was more A-Level than O. And given GCSEs are not quite the standard that O-Levels were (since they were designed to replace O-Levels and CSEs), I would be sceptical if the level of trigonomtery covered at GSCE is sufficient.
Cheers
Whirls
I did my O-Levels and A-Levels so long ago that I cannot remember the level to which trig was studied at each stage. But, to my way of thinking, if you have a mathematical brain, then maths A-levels are easy money to get good grades!
Having looked the trig in Nav just recently, my gut instinct is that it was more A-Level than O. And given GCSEs are not quite the standard that O-Levels were (since they were designed to replace O-Levels and CSEs), I would be sceptical if the level of trigonomtery covered at GSCE is sufficient.
Cheers
Whirls
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Dave
You need to strike a balancing act between (i) what you know will give you good grades; (ii) what you need as a basis for more advanced study (degree or ATPL); and (iii) what subjects you enjoy.
Increasingly school qualifications don't prepare you for anything - they are simply a currency that allow you to 'buy' a place at uni or the job interview table.
Having said that those on the other side of the 'table' respect some subjects more that others, as they are seen to be much more of a challenge. So an 'A' in one subject is sometimes seen to be 'worth' much much than an 'A' in another.
I'd suggest doing Maths and Physics - it's the conventional choice for pilots. They might make study of the ATPL theoretical knowledge subjects slightly easier but if you're a hard worker it won't make much of a difference if you have them or not.
On the other hand if you want to go to uni before becoming a pilot to study something like 'French Basket Weaving in the Context of Medieval Central European Poiltics, specialising in the Moral Aspects of the Reformation', then they might not be the most appropriate choice!
But the ATPL's aren't mathematically demanding. As others have said, they're broad but lack depth, particularly mathematical or scientific depth.
Tough call - as usual the choice is yours. But good luck with whatever you choose!
You need to strike a balancing act between (i) what you know will give you good grades; (ii) what you need as a basis for more advanced study (degree or ATPL); and (iii) what subjects you enjoy.
Increasingly school qualifications don't prepare you for anything - they are simply a currency that allow you to 'buy' a place at uni or the job interview table.
Having said that those on the other side of the 'table' respect some subjects more that others, as they are seen to be much more of a challenge. So an 'A' in one subject is sometimes seen to be 'worth' much much than an 'A' in another.
I'd suggest doing Maths and Physics - it's the conventional choice for pilots. They might make study of the ATPL theoretical knowledge subjects slightly easier but if you're a hard worker it won't make much of a difference if you have them or not.
On the other hand if you want to go to uni before becoming a pilot to study something like 'French Basket Weaving in the Context of Medieval Central European Poiltics, specialising in the Moral Aspects of the Reformation', then they might not be the most appropriate choice!
But the ATPL's aren't mathematically demanding. As others have said, they're broad but lack depth, particularly mathematical or scientific depth.
Tough call - as usual the choice is yours. But good luck with whatever you choose!
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On the other hand, I'm finding 99% of the "maths" I studied at university absolutely pointless and irrelevant. I spent much of my degree questioning what the point of learning it was and since finishing uni I've not found any use for much of it whatsoever.
While the ATPLs may lack depth as far as their scientific and mathematical content is concerned (certainly some of the explanations given leave much to be desired) I would certainly say that achieving good grades at A-level maths takes off a lot of the pressure when approaching some of the more maths- and physics-based parts of the course.
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Not that I know, but does anyone know if having a degree more related to the aviation field, such as engineering etc actually helps when it comes to getting an interview for your first airline job.
Obviously, flying ability is going to determine whether someone gets the job, but I am talking about actually getting an interview. Does a degree stand out on a CV, and if so would a degree in engineering stand out more then some flower arranging degree?
If an employer has two CV's both with minimum JAR CPL/IR hours and one has a degree in engineering, and the other has no degree, or a degree non aviation related, which would they choose.
HB
Obviously, flying ability is going to determine whether someone gets the job, but I am talking about actually getting an interview. Does a degree stand out on a CV, and if so would a degree in engineering stand out more then some flower arranging degree?
If an employer has two CV's both with minimum JAR CPL/IR hours and one has a degree in engineering, and the other has no degree, or a degree non aviation related, which would they choose.
HB
This has all been said before - on this very thread.
Scroggs
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Hi guys,
My views: I agree about doing the A levels you are good at and like. I have just got on to CTC (yay!) and my A levels were English lit, History, Geogrpahy and AS Theology: hardly relevant!
I then did a degree in War Studies, again, not quite so relevant.
However, I firmly believe that if I had not gone to uni I would not have been accepted for training. This is because when I left school I did not have enough life experience. The most important things I got from uni were experiences like living out, having to take care of my self, developing social skills and doing things like OTC (eyesight not good enough for UAS).
Many people may not need to go to uni to develop these skills but I feel I did and if anyone is reminded of themselves by what I have written I would advise them to go to uni. And by the way, it's a lot of fun!
My views: I agree about doing the A levels you are good at and like. I have just got on to CTC (yay!) and my A levels were English lit, History, Geogrpahy and AS Theology: hardly relevant!
I then did a degree in War Studies, again, not quite so relevant.
However, I firmly believe that if I had not gone to uni I would not have been accepted for training. This is because when I left school I did not have enough life experience. The most important things I got from uni were experiences like living out, having to take care of my self, developing social skills and doing things like OTC (eyesight not good enough for UAS).
Many people may not need to go to uni to develop these skills but I feel I did and if anyone is reminded of themselves by what I have written I would advise them to go to uni. And by the way, it's a lot of fun!
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A-levels
Hi ,
I'm currently considering which A-levels to take. I will be taking Phyics Maths, but stuck on a third. I am unsure which of the folowing to take: Geography, Law, French or Business. I want to apply to CTC but obviously want to keep my options open.
Any advice?
I'm currently considering which A-levels to take. I will be taking Phyics Maths, but stuck on a third. I am unsure which of the folowing to take: Geography, Law, French or Business. I want to apply to CTC but obviously want to keep my options open.
Any advice?
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I'd do them if I were you, at least Maths and Physics. I don't think GCSE level is advanced enough to become an airline pilot. Some colleges do evening classes for only a few hours a week, so doing them as well as a 40 hour a week job is not that difficult.
Professional Student
Felix,
Do you mean "get a good enough payed job to finance a ATPL" instead of A-levels? I.e. Ditch the A-Levels & get a job instead to finance the ATPL?
Do you mean "get a good enough payed job to finance a ATPL" instead of A-levels? I.e. Ditch the A-Levels & get a job instead to finance the ATPL?
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Scroggs
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hmm
No he cannot Scroggs, because it is absolute waffle.
When selecting your A level subjects you have to ask yourself:-
1) Even though I may have an A (for example) in the subject at GCSE, am i good enough to get a respectable grade at A level?
2) Do I enjoy the subject enough? will I feel like I want to attend the lessons and do well? Or will I miss lessons all over the place because i can't stand the subject?
It is all well and good people saying ' Oh yes A level Mathematics and Physics are the subjects to take if you want to go commencial '. But i have known a number of students who just cannot grasp the subject at Advanced level - good GCSE grades do not mean that you will get good A level grades, even if the effort is present!
As for studying A levels part time as well keeping hold of a 40hr/wk job, you aren't serious?!?!
When selecting your A level subjects you have to ask yourself:-
1) Even though I may have an A (for example) in the subject at GCSE, am i good enough to get a respectable grade at A level?
2) Do I enjoy the subject enough? will I feel like I want to attend the lessons and do well? Or will I miss lessons all over the place because i can't stand the subject?
It is all well and good people saying ' Oh yes A level Mathematics and Physics are the subjects to take if you want to go commencial '. But i have known a number of students who just cannot grasp the subject at Advanced level - good GCSE grades do not mean that you will get good A level grades, even if the effort is present!
As for studying A levels part time as well keeping hold of a 40hr/wk job, you aren't serious?!?!
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Hey All...
Im not too sure how true this is, but i am very very inclined to agree with it.
I was told that a recommendation from a FTO, Instructor, or other airline pro's that have good links is far more useful than a Degree or A'Levels.
I was told A'Levels are used by airlines only when they are taking Ab-Inito cadets, as they can see that you cope with study well. A'Levels are used as a filter, but after initial selection they are no longer needed, then its down to interviews and selection tests.
I was then told that a degree would not hold any value when i come to apply, but at the same time i was told that if i had started i should finish as a degree is the best insurance plan against loss of licence and to aid the pay back of the loan before a first job is aquired.
I wouldnt mind some input on this, i am pretty sure that i have read many times that a degree is useless in the industry for getting a job, and i think i finally agree. Despite this, i will still get my degree for purposes such as self satisfaction and a little insurance or fall back plan.
I too have had a full time job, and studdied GCSE and A Levels, but this didnt work with my HND, as i failed the HND due to not putting in the time.
I have also looked over the ATPLS and found that GCSE levels gives you all the knowledge you need to solve any of the equations or problems, A'level at a pass point would be over what is required in my opinion.
Another thing i want to add is that i have spoke to a number of CTC Cadets and Cabair cadets, and not yet found one with a Degree in an aviation related subject, most i have spoke too took business. Alot have just A'levels and some have neither.
I would love to get into CTC, but i dont think they are any more impressed about degrees, just the A'levels. I say this, as to my knowledge, education is covered in phase one of CTC, and once passed, then its down to those four questions they ask you and education is not put into the equation again? I may be wrong, and if i am, i am more than happy to be put right...
So please, if you know different for sure, please tell me, as i would like to be put right...
One last thing, i agree with Danny too, A'Level is in a different world compared to GCSE. The difference is, you have to stick out GCSEs but Not A Levels, if you pick a subject at school you couldnt wait to get out of, you just going to end up wasting you time. I did that, took AS Biology, even though i hated it at school. A sensable choice would have been, i like Business and i like/can cope with simple maths, so Business studdies and accounts would have been ideal...
Im not too sure how true this is, but i am very very inclined to agree with it.
I was told that a recommendation from a FTO, Instructor, or other airline pro's that have good links is far more useful than a Degree or A'Levels.
I was told A'Levels are used by airlines only when they are taking Ab-Inito cadets, as they can see that you cope with study well. A'Levels are used as a filter, but after initial selection they are no longer needed, then its down to interviews and selection tests.
I was then told that a degree would not hold any value when i come to apply, but at the same time i was told that if i had started i should finish as a degree is the best insurance plan against loss of licence and to aid the pay back of the loan before a first job is aquired.
I wouldnt mind some input on this, i am pretty sure that i have read many times that a degree is useless in the industry for getting a job, and i think i finally agree. Despite this, i will still get my degree for purposes such as self satisfaction and a little insurance or fall back plan.
I too have had a full time job, and studdied GCSE and A Levels, but this didnt work with my HND, as i failed the HND due to not putting in the time.
I have also looked over the ATPLS and found that GCSE levels gives you all the knowledge you need to solve any of the equations or problems, A'level at a pass point would be over what is required in my opinion.
Another thing i want to add is that i have spoke to a number of CTC Cadets and Cabair cadets, and not yet found one with a Degree in an aviation related subject, most i have spoke too took business. Alot have just A'levels and some have neither.
I would love to get into CTC, but i dont think they are any more impressed about degrees, just the A'levels. I say this, as to my knowledge, education is covered in phase one of CTC, and once passed, then its down to those four questions they ask you and education is not put into the equation again? I may be wrong, and if i am, i am more than happy to be put right...
So please, if you know different for sure, please tell me, as i would like to be put right...
One last thing, i agree with Danny too, A'Level is in a different world compared to GCSE. The difference is, you have to stick out GCSEs but Not A Levels, if you pick a subject at school you couldnt wait to get out of, you just going to end up wasting you time. I did that, took AS Biology, even though i hated it at school. A sensable choice would have been, i like Business and i like/can cope with simple maths, so Business studdies and accounts would have been ideal...
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Definatley do-able.
With you there mcgoo,
eg City of Bristol College, (this is a few years back).
1 A level (1 year intensive course)= 3hr lesson once a week from 1900-2200
3 a levels= 9 hours a week, (outside normal 9-5 hours) + 6 hours home study. total 15 hours
normal working shift 0900-1730 (ish-if you're lucky) Mon-Fri= 40 hours
total 55 hours.
So not only does this not interfere with your money saving work plans, it leaves a whole 113hrs a week to do whatever the devil you like!
P.S, Not a slight by the way, just letting you know its totally possible!
PPS, the operation of large (or in fact any) aircraft is not reccommended for a large part of said 113hours as, dependant on physical conditioning you may require some sleep/rest time during this period.
eg City of Bristol College, (this is a few years back).
1 A level (1 year intensive course)= 3hr lesson once a week from 1900-2200
3 a levels= 9 hours a week, (outside normal 9-5 hours) + 6 hours home study. total 15 hours
normal working shift 0900-1730 (ish-if you're lucky) Mon-Fri= 40 hours
total 55 hours.
So not only does this not interfere with your money saving work plans, it leaves a whole 113hrs a week to do whatever the devil you like!
P.S, Not a slight by the way, just letting you know its totally possible!
PPS, the operation of large (or in fact any) aircraft is not reccommended for a large part of said 113hours as, dependant on physical conditioning you may require some sleep/rest time during this period.
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I am fully aware that it is possible to do classes along with work a 40 hour week, it was the 'it;s not that difficult' part of the post i had the problem with.
Also, If you think of it this way, students are supposed to have roughly 3 1.5 hr lessons a week = 4.5 hours per subject, plus this time again at home = 9 hours per week per subject, X 3 for 3 subjecrts makes it more like 27 hours per week - Don't forget this is if you are going to take it seriously?
If it is humanly possible why not just take the two years at college, work hard at your subjects. Maybe get a part time job, have a few flying lessons. If you are going to do something, do it properly if you can, take the time and don't rush things.
Also, If you think of it this way, students are supposed to have roughly 3 1.5 hr lessons a week = 4.5 hours per subject, plus this time again at home = 9 hours per week per subject, X 3 for 3 subjecrts makes it more like 27 hours per week - Don't forget this is if you are going to take it seriously?
If it is humanly possible why not just take the two years at college, work hard at your subjects. Maybe get a part time job, have a few flying lessons. If you are going to do something, do it properly if you can, take the time and don't rush things.
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If you get bad marks in your atpl exams because you struggled with the maths and physics elements it will be quite costly for you. If you are just finishing school, doing a-levels are free. If they help you pass your atpl exams even by just a fraction, then in my opinion they are a must.