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HCAP are trying to save face but still missing the big point which will come back to haunt them: She and her team fooled the media and public into thinking both flights were solo and that is what she will be remembered for. It will be very interesting to see how the press receive the news...
Female pilot starts epic solo flight to copy Amy Johnson - Telegraph |
It has been suggested the HCAP members could vote to rescind this award at
the AGM next year. |
They really are all getting themselves into a tailspin now.
HCAP: Tracey's team consisting her co-pilot and engineer, Ewald Gritsch, flying with her in the Stearman biplane Yes, Tracey Curtis Taylor was the sole pilot on all her expedition flights.But I did NOT act as a pilot nor as a flight instructor on these expedition flights. Specifically, he did not fly my aeroplane instead of me during any of the flights comprising the Africa, Australia or US expeditions. |
Jay Sata wrote:
I understand it is confirmed TCT is not attending the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awards Banquet. This does not necessarily mean that she has declined to accept the award - it's simply that she will not be at the banquet. |
Nice to see Ewald has had a promotion to co-pilot. Does that now mean TCT was not the sole pilot? And what's more, she was not alone? Websters are going to have to update their dictionary quick smart.
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I see that James Allen wrote the Pilot story about TCT, which was published on line on October 21 this year. Wonder if he has any comments or revisions?
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All rather embarrassing for HCAP. I don't particularly care about TCT as an individual; I do care about well established and credible organisations such as LAA and HCAP finding themselves having to squirm. Even the latest release plugging the 'women in aviation' bit is massively subjective, "many will have been .... consider the impact..", without any hard evidence of achievement worthy of greater recognition of the scores who have done something similar.
Did the trip "raise awareness"? What did it "achieve"? Did she really "lead" the expedition? They're in danger of digging an even deeper hole. |
The wiki entry now lists this.
In 2016, the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awarded Curtis-Taylor its Masters Medal for her work in "raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world".[27][28] I the wiki listing is up for discussion on possible deletion. Given her flights were not notable nor is her career is there justification for retaining it? It appears the mysterious MurialMary created the page. This from the discussion on deletion. source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...ion_News_Media I created this article because Curtis-Taylor was in the news (in reliable sources) over a period of time and her story was interesting to me. I wanted to read an article about her, but as there wasn't one, I started one. According to the GNG this is exactly the type of subject WP biography articles represent - people in the news, in independent and reliable sources, over a period of time. I can't see any valid reason to, as Hillbilly requests, "ignore the GNG" because she has been embroiled in controversy. As Veritasaviator points out, the controversy is quite complex with allegations and evidence on both sides, and it's likely she will be in the news for a while because of it - which again means that she as a subject meets the GNG. MurielMary (talk) 07:04, 27 October 2016 (UTC) MurielMary Well, it's certainly become an interesting subject! Leaning towards your argument, with the HCAP award now stating she did have a co-pilot on board (the opposite of both Curtis-Taylor and Gritsch's recent statements) would you consider the controversy is beginning to overtake the activity and maybe that should be part of the introduction to the page ? Veritasaviator (talk) 07:27, 27 October 2016 (UTC) Dear Veritasaviator, let's move questions regarding the article's emphasis to its talk page. This AfD page is intended to discuss whether the article should remain in WP or be deleted. Regards Guffydrawers (talk) 07:45, 27 October 2016 (UTC) Delete With the HCAP award statement proving Curtis Taylor did not make these flights either solo or sole, I agree with Hillybilly & Veritasaviator suggestions, that there is no real achievement by Curtis-Taylor shown given she had a co-pilot, backup aircraft, satellite communication links, navigation equipment and a logistic company behind her. Dozens of people fly similar routes in light aircraft, microlights and paragliders every year without such support. http://www.trike-expeditions.com/Cap...er_aubert.html 5.133.8.125 (talk) 08:14, 27 October 2016 (UTC) Please familiarise yourself with the GNG of WP (the General Notability Guidelines for article subjects). Whether Curtis-Taylor's flights were solo or not is irrelevant here. The question is whether she is the subject of ongoing media coverage in independent reliable sources over a period of time. For comparison, someone like Kim Kardashian has arguably achieved nothing in her life but has a very busy, highly read and popular article on WP. Achievement is different to notability. MurielMary (talk) 08:21, 27 October 2016 (UTC) |
Despite searching hard, I cannot find any answers to Sam Rutherford's question on 16th October 2016:
I now have a question for Ewald: After the Stearman hit the parked R44 only 6 weeks before the Australia trip - can you let us know how closely you followed the FAA propstrike requirements? I've been wondering for a while, particularly considering that the engine failed +/- 6 months later. As an enthusiast's forum, there is a large audience who'd be fascinated to learn more of how such a total rebuild can be done so fast. Just how was Artifice ready for the next show and into the media shots again in unbelievable time? |
This is where you go to have your say on whether the page should be deleted or not - just look for the 'edit' link at the top:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe..._Curtis-Taylor |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 9544882)
I should have asked this question months ago but who was Bill Woodham and why have the LAA got a Navigation Award in his memory.
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On Wiki, the Goodwood helicopter incident says it was a 'damaged R22'
I thought it was a written-off R44 Any AAIB report to substantiate the helicopter being written-off? The Stearman also looks totally written-off from the photographs :confused: |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 9557471)
Nice to see Ewald has had a promotion to co-pilot. Does that now mean TCT was not the sole pilot? And what's more, she was not alone? Websters are going to have to update their dictionary quick smart.
Statement - October 2016 Oh what a tangled web. Maybe it's time they change the site name to Bird-and-a-Bloke-in a BiPlane. |
Originally Posted by mary meagher
(Post 9557484)
I see that James Allen wrote the Pilot story about TCT, which was published on line on October 21 this year ......
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Cessnafly - R44 - AAIB bulletin below
AAIB Bulletin: 12/2015 N56200 EW/G2015/08/10 ACCIDENT Aircraft Type and Registration: Boeing B75N1 Stearman, N56200 No & Type of Engines: 1 Lycoming R680 piston engine Year of Manufacture: 1943 Date & Time (UTC): 17 August 2015 at 1115 hrs Location: Goodwood Aerodrome, Sussex Type of Flight: Private Persons on Board: Crew – 1 Passengers - 1 Injuries: Crew - None Passengers - None Nature of Damage: Damage to propeller and tears in left wing Commander’s Licence: Private Pilot’s Licence Commander’s Age: 53 years Commander’s Flying Experience: 1,430 hours (of which at least 350 were on type) Last 90 days - 16 hours Last 28 days - 9 hours Information Source: Aircraft Accident Report Form submitted by the pilot The aircraft was parked outside a hangar, in an area where construction works were ongoing and temporary buildings had been erected in preparation for an event. The pilot boarded the aircraft and started the engine, before beginning to taxi. After moving off the aircraft turned through 90° to go between buildings towards the runway. The width of the area between the buildings was insufficient to allow the turns necessary for the pilot of a Stearman to see the area ahead. The pilot saw one helicopter parked ahead on the left, and another on the right, but could not see directly forward, and the propeller and nose of N56200 contacted the front of a Robinson R44 helicopter which had been parked between the other two. The pilot of N56200 immediately realised that there had been a collision, and shut down the aircraft, she and her passenger vacating it without difficulty. The helicopter was not occupied, and no injuries resulted, but its cockpit was destroyed. The collision could have been avoided if the pilot of N56200 had ensured that the area into which it taxied was clear of obstructions, either by observation, or the use of wing-walkers or marshallers |
rugmuncher, whilst none of us here have any evidence to the contrary of Ewald ever flying the Stearman on those jaunts, honestly, truthfully, hand on heart, can you really believe that a 20,000 hr pilot, the engineer himself, never flew that aircraft. Sorry, for me, on the balance of probabilities, I would say that he did fly that aircraft ON those jaunts at various stages.
...and I think any one of us here as her co-pilot would have done the same. |
Originally Posted by Cessnafly
(Post 9557663)
rugmuncher, whilst none of us here have any evidence to the contrary of Ewald ever flying the Stearman on those jaunts, honestly, truthfully, hand on heart, can you really believe that a 20,000 hr pilot, the engineer himself, never flew that aircraft. Sorry, for me, on the balance of probabilities, I would say that he did fly that aircraft ON those jaunts at various stages.
...and I think any one of us here as her co-pilot would have done the same. She's be caught lying and embellishing her story and "living the dream". Its now time for her to wake up and face reality. It's quite clear she wasn't able to follow through with her primary responsibilities as sole pilot on the "adventure" and \Ewald had to step in and take over these roles while she was swanning around enjoying all the media publicity and all that goes with it. She's a fake and she needs to do the honourable thing. |
The key words on my first solo certificate are "without the presence of an instructor". Even when on subsequent training flights, the instructor may not have handled the controls at any point however all pilots will recognise that verbal input still counts as tuition or assistance. Such assistance may be as little as keeping a look out or pointing out that a check item has been missed however assistance is assistance irrespective of whether it was verbal or manual.
No amount of weasel words will make that fact disappear. |
rugmuncher, I totally agree with all you say.
"She's a fake and she needs to do the honourable thing." Yes, and I don't understand why the Honourable Company of Air Pilots would want to be associated with this scam that has been portrayed to the world media. I suspect more to this story will unfold in due course. The Honourable Company will be handing out awards like toffee's at this rate....every time a female airline captain comes across the cabin intercom and says "good morning, this is your captain speaking" she has just brought awareness to 200 - 400 passengers of a female in aviation. |
Tracey has previously spoken about what she ate during her flights, and yoghurt was mentioned as an example. Does she really expect us to believe that she didn't ask Ewald to take control for a while? And what about the RT? Did Tracey do this herself at all times during the flights...do we have access to any tapes?
And how does "sole pilot" or "alone in the airplane" stack up with HCAP's statement of Ewald being a "co-pilot?" Whichever way it goes at the HCAP's presentation their award to her is now playing out like a slow motion plane crash. Reading of the statements they have issued to date in chronological order makes good text for a farce. |
Having posted a few times early on when I thought this was simply about flights to OZ by solo pilots with not much back up... I just watched as it became apparent that Jay was out to expose TCT. What unravelled has been fascinating and it is the usual truth, that it is the cover up that gets you, not the original 'mistake'
Way back, the question I wanted to see answered was; What happened to the solo bit? and one can only assume that abilities might have been a bit overclaimed and it only became apparent that these were a problem after the Africa flight commenced. I would heve loved to have sat in on THAT meeting. But how the PR team thought they could pull it off in the world of 'tnet really makes one gasp. Then do it again to OZ... DW Oh, and about infringing palace airspace. Back in around '80, some friends did this in Morroco. Bit murky and radio problems, they thought it was Casablanca, not Rabat. They flew over the palace twice, a complete no-no. Forced down by a military a/c, they spent a couple of days in the slammer, before their story checked out. The base commander told them, as they left, that they would have shot them down straight away, except they were going so slowly, they doubted it was an attempt on the King, who was not at home anyway. And this was way before 9/11. |
The implication being that it was a stage along Tracey's 'Solo flight around the world' :)
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New entry to Wiki
Awards and recognition[edit] In 2016 the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awarded Curtis-Taylor its Masters Medal for her work in "raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world".[27] At this rate, the Police Federation may consider her for an award too....for raising awareness to deceit and misrepresentation. :D |
This gives you some idea of the 'editing' (some might call it censorship) that takes place on the Wikipedia page. From the 'Talk' section:
I removed the two references to accidents in the article as neither is particular notable or would be worth a mention here. We dont usual mention non-notable accidents in biographies. Neither accident was fatal nor did it damage anything of note but my removal was reverted on he ground that the aircraft were worth a lot of money - not a normal consideration in wikipedia. Suggest that these be removed again, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 09:20, 27 October 2016 (UTC) I agree that they are non-notable and should be removed. In fact, higher up on this page there is a previous discussion about this same point, in which another editor (Guffydrawers) states that the accidents are non-notable and should be removed. I will remove them based on our three "votes" to remove. MurielMary (talk) 09:30, 27 October 2016 (UTC) |
On that basis, I should have received many awards for my efforts over the years. How do I apply? Do I collect two special tokens from my cornflakes packet and write in 25 words or less as to why I am deserving? Or do my friends have to get 10 signatures and fill in a form? Or do I not move around in the right circles to be eligible?
PM The award is a bit rich considering the TCT's self confessed hatred of technology, her lack of scientific or technical background, her flagrant disregard for (aviation) law and piss-poor air(woman)ship. But she's good at crashing! |
Unlike Amy Johnson’s flight this was not a solo flight and it was sponsored by Artemis and Boeing as part of a promotional endeavour to encourage females into aviation. Tracey's team consisting her co-pilot and engineer, Ewald Gritsch, flying with her in the Stearman biplane, and film-crew in a Cessna Caravan chase-plane throughout the expedition, together with back-up and logistics support team, were all there with one specific principal aim in mind: to promote aviation to many thousands of youngsters, especially women, across the globe for whom flying is a distant, even unknown or seemingly unachievable activity. The entire expedition was filmed for a documentary and will show, better than can be described by any citation, how this outreach to youngsters in the Middle East and Asia in particular was achieved. For outstanding courage or devotion to duty in the air, the Honourable Company of Air Pilots Master's Medal may be awarded to any person in aviation, at any time, for an act or other achievement in aviation considered worthy of the Medal, as soon as the facts of the event are clear. This is intended to be an immediate award, made at the discretion of the Master and on the advice of the Trophies and Awards Committee. :hmm: |
"This is intended to be an immediate award, made at the discretion of the Master and on the advice of the Trophies and Awards Committee."
Say no more. Charities & Organisations - Prince Michael of Kent ....scroll down...under the aviation banner. |
"Say no more."
Anyone found the link yet to Pompey Poly? |
On the subject of Ms C-T's crashes into both helicopters and unbeleivably - the ground - and the repeated censorship of them from her Wiki entry, prolific Wiki editor (censor of bad press for Ms C-T) states:
Neither accident was fatal nor did it damage anything of note What an amusing own goal! |
Originally Posted by B70
(Post 9557826)
"Say no more."
Anyone found the link yet to Pompey Poly? Revealed: honorary graduates for 2016 | UoP News |
"This one?"
Thanks, yes, but I was meaning who was the sponsor? How did P Poly learn of TC-T's outstanding feats? Who informed them? Who 'sponsored' the Hon PhD? Did the TC-T PR dept have anything to do with it? Was P Poly that desperate? |
Although she's certainly got some dedicated people covering up the truth every time it pops up on Wiki I doubt the Honourable Company will find it so easy to evade the opprobrium that will attach to them if they really do award this charlatan for making a commercially sponsored movie on wimmens "outreach" (altogether now, Aaaaah!)
The Master in such organisations is not supposed to be seen to be wrong and no doubt it is a very big deal indeed (internally) to rescind such a major award but burying their heads in the sand will only make the sh*t gritty when it fills their eyes, nose and ears. The meeja has seen the truth and the word of TCT's LAA disgrace is on the pages of the broadsheets so if the HC does go ahead and make the award the meeja is just going to savage them for being out of touch/out of line puppets of royalty, the wealthy and the well-connected which is adverse publicity a Guild just does not need in this irrationally contentious day and age. I sincerely hope Officers of the Guild read these pages and advise their Master of the huge damage this award would make to their reputation as a reliable, impartial and above all an honest organisation not only among the public, but especially amongst pilots themselves. The very last thing the Guild needs is to be cast into disrepute amongst it's very bedrock, the average working pilots. For the sake of your reputation in the Aviation world, Master, rescind this award no matter how painful the process because I assure you the merciless battering you will receive from the meeja if you do not will attach a rotten stink to the Guild and its reputation that will be vastly more painful and damaging and take years to ameliorate. |
I'd expect that Boeing will use the excuse that their centennial year celebrations are ending as a justification to exit stage left from this debacle, Artemis is a different story. Princess Anne's daughter and her rugby player hubby have had a pretty good long term gig as "rent a royal" brand ambassadors for Artemis and must be furious at Uncle Philly for bringing TCT and her traveling circus into the fold to essentially piss in their own well with all the bad publicity she has brought with her. Artemis seem to like the Royal association so will keep it going but will quietly suggest to the Zara & Co. to ditch the source of the distractions and bad press.
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More CAP than HCAP by the end of the day then, what on earth goes on behind closed doors down there ?- the whole TCT saga is one of lies, misrepresentation, obfuscation and spin. What on earth is there in all of that which can be considered Honourable. Tonights the night and she isnt going to show because she has quietly been asked not to, why oh why would that be the case if the great and good at HCAP were absolutely comfortable about the award......... if a worthy excuse is needed to change tack then perhaps a quick trip to the engravers for the name Hoover to be engraved would be far more acceptable than the consequences of blindly steering down the current route (Other worthy names are available). Surely the ordinary members can bring some influence to bear before the AGM .
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Spekesoftly, I'm sorry, I can't locate the Pilot story possibly by James Allen regarding TCT, I could have been mistaken, and if so I apologise. Did anybody else read such a posting, I thought it had been dated 21 Oct this year, but I have often at my age been wrong....
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I sincerely hope Officers of the Guild read these pages and advise their Master of the huge damage this award would make to their reputation as a reliable, impartial and above all an honest organisation not only among the public, but especially amongst pilots themselves. The very last thing the Guild needs is to be cast into disrepute amongst it's very bedrock, the average working pilots. As another member of HCAP (with almost forty years of aviation as a professional military and civilian pilot and many times more hours than the "highly experienced" Ms. T C-T) I personally feel the award should not have been made, for what is in effect just another "reality" TV show. The "artistic license" in the anecdotes used by Ms. T C-T do not convince me that she flew this a professional manner and two fairly major accidents to the aircraft where she was "sole pilot" cannot be ignored, especially as the first was entirely avoidable, or should have been. However, the "rank and file" of HCAP do not get to vote on issues regarding The Master's Award; it is what it says on the tin. |
TCT
I think looking back, we have to accept TCT's BBC Goodwood to Cape Town et al for what it really is, entertainment, like the Apprentice and Bake-Off. Not a factual documentary of any substance but a highly edited piece of worthless theatre usually appealing to the lowest common denominator of viewers.
On the subject of cheating/prevarication, I'm sure we all have a Walter Mitty character in our flying clubs/schools. I know we have at least one at our airfield. TCT has done a great disservice to flying and the true heroes and heroines of aviation that went before. |
Forget wild theories. I hear the truth is much simpler.
It centres on the loyalty of the current Master to the previous Master. (Avoiding embarrassment to him.) The original letter from the previous Master, Sqn Leader Chris Ford,is completely different to that penned by the current Master, Captain Peter Benn,who was responsible for the latest citation. He also issued an interim citation (which is different to 1 and 3) to a tabloid journalist some months ago. Here is the original once again with no mention of ' Co-pilot Ewald Gritsch. I understand very few people inside the upper eschelons of HCAP have seen this letter as I presume they do not wander the grubby streets of Pprune. http://s21.postimg.org/jbyeh9ip3/image.jpg |
There was a guy who was heavily taken in by her. He says so himself.
He even drove down to Goodwood on New Year eve on a late winters afternoon. He says so himself. See 0.02 onwards to 0.38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgKMm9Zw-LY You haven't convinced me Jay. |
And .....
I know that my maths isn't what it used to be, but did I count two heads in that Stearman? Maybe TC-T has been picking up hitch-hikers again? |
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