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Public Apology Owed
PPruneTowers revealed GTE's real name last night.
I am pleased to see that wrong has been righted, but believe that PPRune should post a public apology. Regardless of what has happened, to reveal someone's identity on an anonymous forum is not on. Moderators, please note that I have no interest in discussing what caused the suspension. |
Would you like them to dress in sack cloth and ashes as well? Or will a night in the stocks do?
Seriously......... :rolleyes::rolleyes: |
GTE has now registered on "the other side" and you can now read his own account of what have happened.
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PPRuNe is not a democracy, and nor is it a members club (well as far as I am aware). It is a forum to discuss matters of mutual interest provided by another party.
Having contributed for too many years, in my experience it does a pretty good job. Most private pilots either come here or to Flyer. Inevitably when contributors get banned, stir the pot, or are generally obnoxious it causes lively debate - and lets face it perhaps there is a little bit of old women in us all. ;) However since its not our forum, those that own it have the right to operate the forum as they see fit. It seems to me if we don't like it then everyone has the right to go elsewhere. Personally I think over the years they have done a pretty good job. They have often allowed debate that I would have thought crosses more than a few lines of "reasonableness" - and good for them! I dont think the owners have any obligation to explain why they have removed threads or contributors, and more to the point, there could be a host of reasons for doing so that you certainly could not make public. As with any organisation the owners should of course abide by their own rules as much as the contributors. Those that would like to see things run differently, good for you, I am not criticising you and all credit to the owners for allowing the debate. As with any organisation you can have a go at changing the way in which it operates but dont get upset if the owners thank you for your views but do nothing. |
Would you like them to dress in sack cloth and ashes as well? Or will a night in the stocks do? Don't be so puerile. |
GTE has now registered on "the other side" Curious, [[ edit: OK, found it, after searching a bit more ]] |
PPRuNe is not a democracy, and nor is it a members club (well as far as I am aware). It is a forum to discuss matters of mutual interest provided by another party. Having contributed for too many years, in my experience it does a pretty good job. Most private pilots either come here or to Flyer. Inevitably when contributors get banned, stir the pot, or are generally obnoxious it causes lively debate - and lets face it perhaps there is a little bit of old women in us all. However since its not our forum, those that own it have the right to operate the forum as they see fit. It seems to me if we don't like it then everyone has the right to go elsewhere. Personally I think over the years they have done a pretty good job. They have often allowed debate that I would have thought crosses more than a few lines of "reasonableness" - and good for them! I dont think the owners have any obligation to explain why they have removed threads or contributors, and more to the point, there could be a host of reasons for doing so that you certainly could not make public. As with any organisation the owners should of course abide by their own rules as much as the contributors. Those that would like to see things run differently, good for you, I am not criticising you and all credit to the owners for allowing the debate. As with any organisation you can have a go at changing the way in which it operates but dont get upset if the owners thank you for your views but do nothing. |
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Final 3 Greens
It does and that is why I suggested if nothing else the owners should abide by their own rules. That said (as possibly seems to be the case) if the information has already been placed in the public domain the cat is out of the bag and as we all know cant be put back in the bag how ever much you might wish otherwise. Who released the cat in the first place I have no idea. Always a dangerous game. |
Afternoon chaps. Thanks to the person who pointed this thread out. I even registered on Flyer Forums as a result. It's a bit unpleasant for me over on PPrune at the moment, and I'm feeling rather abused. I'm not going to publically explain what has happened, although a few people who I know well enough to explain have a reasonable picture of it. In a nutshell, I did something which I felt was reasonable but that another of the PPrune moderators took great exception to, so he responded by making me invisible on the site, by removing my moderators powers, by removing my ability to send private messages as Genghis, and by posting (for about half a day anyhow until it got removed) my real name on one of the threads. He seems to have done this without consulting with the other moderators or with the site owners; the latter are looking into this at the moment (but being in the USA, are actually probably eating breakfast right now). I'm optimistic that it'll all get sensibly sorted out shortly - the site owners at IB tend to be hands-off, but they are nice chaps and generally pretty sensible, as well as usually prepared to act decisively if they have to. No, I'm not at-all happy at my treatment, but on the other hand (even if it does feel a bit like I'm reading my own obituary) very grateful to the numerous people who have shown their support for what I've done over the years on PPrune and, ideally, would like to continue doing. I'm also very aware that this is not me being shut down by PPrune, it's me being shut down (hopefully temporarily) by somewhere between 1 and 3 people on PPrune (depending upon how many usernames each person has!). The vast majority of people on PPrune who have expressed any opinion are somewhere between neutral and supportive of me and I've been amazed at the vast number of supportive messages I've received privately from various directions. I'm not going to post any more about this: here or anywhere else right now - I am trusting the site owners at Internet Brands to sort things out sensibly in their own time, and I don't think that my making accusations or publishing anything more than this will help anybody for the moment. And in the meantime, I did some great flying at the weekend, and am doing some really interesting things professionally right now - and I am in this game for the flying, not the bulletin boards! PS, seems to be a few people on this thread who are a bit "moderator-ish". Perhaps they have a few usernames...? |
Well – we have a resistance – now we see if it is futile.:)
Rod1 |
Airpolice, I think you will find that it has ..........................
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This does illustrate the "problems" of censoring anything, be it photos or words - someone, somewhere will host it, even if sometimes not for too long, but usually just long enough for the whole world to know.
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It is technically trivial to start up another forum (off the peg software and getting it hosted) but it would suffer from the same moderation issues which every other forum suffers from.
Not just aviation, either. A forum for mums discussing wayward teenagers has the same problems. Pr00n has a long history and as a result a lot of people still read it today, even though not anywhere near as many as c. 10 years ago. It "just" needs to sort out the behaviour of certain mods. This has been a long standing problem and I am not talking about PF necessarily. It also needs to make a decision on whether it really wants, as a matter of corporate policy, to become a forum for various self appointed private investigators. One issue to consider is that, in aviation, there is no end to how many people with allegedly dodgy backgrounds one can dig up. I met a number of dodgy characters just during my PPL training, and a whole raft of them during my 10 years' aircraft ownership, so shall I start a new thread? ;) |
There may well be many people in aviation with dodgy backgrounds, Peter. One thing is for sure, though, Genghis is not one of them. He is an extremely well regarded and well respected member of the UK aviation community.
He has been a valuable contributor here, and seems to have been a good moderator to boot. For the sake of this forum, I hope the powers that be recognise that, and get this mess sorted with the minimum of fuss. |
Although I do not know anything of the squabble, I shall miss Ghengis' passion, common sense and knowledge.
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Sorry Airpolice, no, I did not see a link....... I believed you to be referring to the use of GtE's given name by the mods instead of his user name. This has now been amended in both posts. Hence my post. My apologies. :(
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I do agree with F3G, an ungentlemanly slight appears to have been cast on GTE which deserves apology. I know Bose-X will mock such a suggestion but an honourable person or company would accept an error with good grace.
I think I'm fairly au fait with the qualifications of most of the moderators on this board but I'm not sure I know who "Slipslider" (?) is or what background they come from. Any chance of enlightenment or is this also Verboten? PS Is it me or has this post changed somewhat from the original: It is sufficient to say that the value of Genghis contributions has been appreciated. However anyone who is a moderator has access to some very private information which we trust will never be abused or revealed. Confidentiality is a foremost priority with the forum. Some information can have far reaching consequences if disclosed, often beyond the appreciation of the person disclosing it. This is the way that the forum has operated with great success for over 16 years. At this stage some important decisions are being made with regards what has happened and Genghis is fully aware of everything that is happening and why. Hopefully at the very minimum Genghis will be able to return as a contributor. Due to the sensitivity of the matter and out of respect for the previous work of Genghis the thread is now closed and is a matter of private discussion. |
Many people are commenting definitively despite not knowing the facts of the case, nor knowing GTE very well. Expression of opinion despite absence of knowledge is a common feature of most forums!
I concur with Fuji Abound's first post on this thread. PPRUNE/IB run these forums as they see fit, we read/contribute or not as we see fit. I have no fundamental complaints. Naming GTE (if indeed they did) is wrong, however this has to be seen against the fact that he regularly makes statements which leave little veil over his true indentity. KPOUT |
Well, having looked at the posts, I now think it's fairly apparent who Slipwotsit is...
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If I need to make it clearer, I'm happy to do so but I thought that including a link to the "offending" post and then suggesting that you should have followed that link and read the post, would be clear enough. |
Clareprop wrote:
I think I'm fairly au fait with the qualifications of most of the moderators on this board but I'm not sure I know who "Slipslider" (?) is or what background they come from.Any chance of enlightenment or is this also Verboten?. Re-instate GtE! One of the good guys, knowledgeable on aeronautical matters and a true gentleman, as his very measured post from Flyer BB illustrates. End of. |
Humblest apologies for besmirching your good name. Having checked properly I now see the fussbudget is in fact named Sidesliplanding
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Re-instate GtE! One of the good guys, knowledgeable on aeronautical matters and a true gentleman, as his very measured post from Flyer BB illustrates. End of. Rather reminds me of the female Red Arrow, who left team do cries of support from PPRUNErs who did not know the facts. Accept the limits of your knowledge and don't opine outside thereof |
Rather reminds me of the female Red Arrow, who left team do cries of support from PPRUNErs who did not know the facts. |
People have a tendency to offer their opinion despite an abence of knowledge - that was evident on the military forum when the female Red left the team, just as it is here with GTE.
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I started the thread, Keypilot and the axiom is that GTE is owed a public apology for a mod posting his real name on the forum.
This not opinion in the absence of fact, I saw the post before it was edited and sanitised, after some hours. As this is the thread I started, please will you stick to the topic and avoid thread drift, I would appreciate that. |
I started the thread, Keypilot and the axiom is that GTE is owed a public apology for a mod posting his real name on the forum. |
...GTE is owed a public apology for a mod posting his real name on the forum. This not opinion in the absence of fact, I saw the post before it was edited and sanitised, after some hours. Below is a direct quote from the Pprune Forum Rules - look it up under FAQ's Do not 'out' (reveal or attempt to reveal) the identity of another poster. |
It can be hard when you know someone on PPRuNe personally because you have their face in your head when posting, I've nearly outed A and C several times!
Tim |
Why? Mine has been posted a number of times and after complaint removed. I did not expect a public apology, its just the nature of the beast. That deserves an apology. |
And I would add, not marked as edited - one of the cheapest tricks on a forum and not a facility available to the rest of us even if we wanted to use it. |
People have a tendency to offer their opinion despite an abence of knowledge - that was evident on the military forum when the female Red left the team, just as it is here with GTE. What an arrogant narrow minded response := Obviously people will voice an opinion on the information they have and should question for the information they do not have? As for trusting the reasons given? As in life trust no one question all? I suppose you blindly trust all that politicians tell you and blindly believe what you are told ?? :ugh: Pace |
I find it incredible that this whole issue hasn't been sorted by now. The Flyer Forum must be very happy that this is dragging on, as so many of the Pprune regulars go over there to discuss the issue!
In all the time I've been on Pprune, I've never seen an issue like this arise. I've never seen such a user outcry over one of our members being banned. And the really stupid thing is that this sorry mess has been all of Pprune's own creating. It's been badly handled from the beginning, and the lack of action or proper communication with the users is just making it worse. An outsider might be forgiven for thinking that Pprune management didn't care about the members of its second busiest forum! dp |
I do not for one minute believe that this is the voice of pprune? I do not know how policy or such decisions are made whether they are by group meetings which would be the voice of pprune or whether by certain individuals who unilaterally make their own decisions for pprune?
Whatever pprune should note the unrest among its members which has been over some time and which has culminated and come to a head with Gs situation They should take note that maybe they are not right and listen more to their members. And as stated by another poster! I do not know all the facts so the above is written with a pinch of salt! I never saw G as anyone but honest and honorable and unlikely to pick a fight. So was surprised even shocked when it was him. Pace |
Well said Pace. I recognize PPRuNe as a privately owned entity, and entitled to conduct itself as it chooses, without being accountable to members for that conduct. However, members are similarly entitled to a sense of confidence that their contributions are valued. Afterall, it is those contributions which "make" the content.
Many of us bring a vast array of experience to this forum, and share it freely. Personally, I do this as my way of returning the generosity shown me for decades, by wise aviation persons who have shared their time with me - I feel I owe it back, this seems [seemed] an suitable place to make this effort. It is an effort. Looking back, and assuming that one quarter of my 2500 posts actually had useful informative content, and took 10 minutes each to prepare, that's still about 100 hours of my time - given to PPRuNe, and it's readers. That could have been a couple of STC's issued. I had enough reason to believe that this effort was appreciated by members, to continue. Now, I'm not so sure PPRuNe cares. Firstly, a bunch of those post are gone now - do they deserve to be? There has already been a request that information I had posted be replaced (on a different PPRuNe forum) - and I cannot, as the only copy, resident in PPRuNe, is not available to me - and I wrote it! Secondly, I simply feel now that whomever at PPRuNe, for reasons of their own, are taking a slash and burn approach to dealing with what I believe to be a very pinpoint problem. If this is the new PPRuNe way, I'm not sure I want to invest any more. Personally, I am waiting with great interest to hear PPRuNe's side, not so much what has happened to Genghis' posts, but in general, how the value of all members posts is appreciated, and protected for the benefit of all. In the mean time, I'm not investing my time in other threads - lest it be a waste, now, or in the future.... |
Pprune is an excellent discussion forum, which has been hugely dependent upon the contribution of a relatively small number of contributors – many of whom have posted 1000s of threads and given a wealth of experience.
GTE undoubtedly falls into that camp, and is one of the reasons for the current outrage. That hardcore of posters massively add to Pprune, and without them, this website would descend further into junk and discussions limited to passing selection tests/ go around “emergencies” at LHR etc. It is against that backdrop that it is reasonable to have some comment from the Mods, and not to have posts that they don’t like just locked or deleted. |
Originally Posted by Pilot DAR
Firstly, a bunch of those post are gone now - do they deserve to be? There has already been a request that information I had posted be replaced (on a different PPRuNe forum) - and I cannot, as the only copy, resident in PPRuNe, is not available to me - and I wrote it!
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I think what's happened here is that the PP admins (Internet Brands) have comprehensively lost control of a particular well known moderator (who is posting under at least two names).
However this has been happening for years at some of the other less known PP forums, where bizzare things like this happened many times. As I said earlier, the owners also need to consider whether in the long term they want to allow the site to become a forum for self appointed private detectives. Those threads may have helped uncover some dodgy characters (easy to do - aviation is a fertile breeding ground for them) but they have massively tainted the site in the eyes of anyone intelligent and reasonable. Re my postings, if they all get deleted I don't suppose anybody will care. It is nothing like the huge archive of tech posts which GTE contributed over the years. I run my own website and the stuff I put real effort into goes on there. In fact, funnily enough, when one forum owner asked to to use my full name I said I will agree only if he does delete all my posts first :) He declined, but later they did it anyway so one day I will go back there with a script and clean them all off. |
I missed the issue which led to GtE's removal and generated this uproar.
I am not normally one for 'Mod' bashing and have been around this forum on and off since the original Compuserve days started by Danny. Surely the amount of comment being expressed here (and elsewhere) is significant enough for the Mods to issue some sort of statement? Even if its a bland no comment with little information in it I think that the feelings of many users of this site deserve to be acknowleged by the site operator. If this was a customer service business the total lack of response by the 'management' would have done serious damage to its credibility. |
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