What's a licence worth?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
What's a licence worth?
Once upon a time, long long ago, GtW had a PPL. Amonst other people whom he took for rides in rented 152s was the future Mrs GtW.
However, on getting married and starting to produce babies, GtW let his licence lapse, somewhat. I'm now in the process of getting it back, with no reason to suppose that this won't be achieved shortly.
BUT: Mrs GtW says she won't then let me take any of our kids up for a ride without some other pilot in the aircraft. The instructors and examiners I've mentioned this to just stare blankly and say "but you'll have a licence". (I got the impression there would be something of a shortage of instructors willing to come along for the ride as a safety pilot, unable to log any of the time, even if I did want to pay them.)
So, unless Mrs GtW changes her mind I'll be able to take anyone I like for a ride ... except my own kids. Is this a unique situation or a common problem?
However, on getting married and starting to produce babies, GtW let his licence lapse, somewhat. I'm now in the process of getting it back, with no reason to suppose that this won't be achieved shortly.
BUT: Mrs GtW says she won't then let me take any of our kids up for a ride without some other pilot in the aircraft. The instructors and examiners I've mentioned this to just stare blankly and say "but you'll have a licence". (I got the impression there would be something of a shortage of instructors willing to come along for the ride as a safety pilot, unable to log any of the time, even if I did want to pay them.)
So, unless Mrs GtW changes her mind I'll be able to take anyone I like for a ride ... except my own kids. Is this a unique situation or a common problem?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, unless Mrs GtW changes her mind I'll be able to take anyone I like for a ride ... except my own kids. Is this a unique situation or a common problem?
Child number one, needless to say, loves it and we took the plane and went camping last weekend at a farmstrip about 30 miles away. It was great -- the reason I got my licence back and bought an aircraft.
QDM
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Who cares? ;-)
Age: 74
Posts: 676
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tell Mrs. GtW to start learning to fly herself! Why is it that it's mostly only the men that fly and the wives stay home and get "jealous" of his going to the field. She should take lessons and find out for herself how great it is!!
I think this might get this thread in a new direction, but how many of you guys have ever considered investing in flight lessons for your wife? How many flying wives are there out there in Prunneland? Would be interesting to know...
I myself: once married to an airline jockey... I didn't even know it was possible for me to learn flying, thought you can only do it if you wanted to fly professionally. Then I found out from friends that anyone can learn and, without telling him at first, signed up for lessons. Well, he thought the idea not so bad... made it possible for him to fly "small stuff" again. And it gave me an insight into his job, even though my flying stayed "small" (meantime CPL and instuctors rating).
We had many nice flights together with our 2 children ... usually I flew so I could collect hours (obviously he had enough). And taking the children along was never in question, after all, driving a car is much more dangerous, as we all know!
keep flying!
WestWind1950
P.S. in the meantime we're divorced... got frustrationg that he had to have every additional rating that I got as well (glider tow, balloon, glider) as if I was in competition with him!
I think this might get this thread in a new direction, but how many of you guys have ever considered investing in flight lessons for your wife? How many flying wives are there out there in Prunneland? Would be interesting to know...
I myself: once married to an airline jockey... I didn't even know it was possible for me to learn flying, thought you can only do it if you wanted to fly professionally. Then I found out from friends that anyone can learn and, without telling him at first, signed up for lessons. Well, he thought the idea not so bad... made it possible for him to fly "small stuff" again. And it gave me an insight into his job, even though my flying stayed "small" (meantime CPL and instuctors rating).
We had many nice flights together with our 2 children ... usually I flew so I could collect hours (obviously he had enough). And taking the children along was never in question, after all, driving a car is much more dangerous, as we all know!
keep flying!
WestWind1950
P.S. in the meantime we're divorced... got frustrationg that he had to have every additional rating that I got as well (glider tow, balloon, glider) as if I was in competition with him!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this might get this thread in a new direction, but how many of you guys have ever considered investing in flight lessons for your wife? How many flying wives are there out there in Prunneland? Would be interesting to know...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thankfully Mrs Pilotage has her own brand of expensive hobbies, and spends her own money on them.
Seriously, logic won't win the argument, time and emotion may. I'd suggest not pressing the matter with her, but taking lots of your joint friends - particularly the more vocal ones - up flying. And making sure they both have a good time and feel very safe. Give it a year or so and I've no doubt she'll quietly change her mind without having to be seen to do a U-turn.
But, for goodness sake don't argue with Mrs Wombat about it, you'll never win an argument with the fairer sex by such weak methods as facts alone.
P
Seriously, logic won't win the argument, time and emotion may. I'd suggest not pressing the matter with her, but taking lots of your joint friends - particularly the more vocal ones - up flying. And making sure they both have a good time and feel very safe. Give it a year or so and I've no doubt she'll quietly change her mind without having to be seen to do a U-turn.
But, for goodness sake don't argue with Mrs Wombat about it, you'll never win an argument with the fairer sex by such weak methods as facts alone.
P
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When they realise it's not such a big deal and not as risky as the popular press like to make out they come round.
Ex Mrs CM used to be the same when I was picking up my kids (we were 200 miles by road apart at the time). She used to be very anti until one occasion when they were delayed back from a holiday, couldn't meet normally and I said I'd travel all the way to them to drop off the boys. When she realised that it meant she and new hubby didn't always have to meet me half way she now actively encourages it.
As for the kids - they just become very blase about it, especially when we discovered the game boy doesn't interfere with the nav kit
Ex Mrs CM used to be the same when I was picking up my kids (we were 200 miles by road apart at the time). She used to be very anti until one occasion when they were delayed back from a holiday, couldn't meet normally and I said I'd travel all the way to them to drop off the boys. When she realised that it meant she and new hubby didn't always have to meet me half way she now actively encourages it.
As for the kids - they just become very blase about it, especially when we discovered the game boy doesn't interfere with the nav kit
Last edited by Chilli Monster; 17th May 2003 at 18:24.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 504
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still won't take my children up due to my lack of experience, but I hope to able to as my experience grows. I will have to convince the Ex Mrs. tacpot that I am safe at that point. My children are also likely to be teenagers by then, and so a little more aware of the risks that might be involved and be able to judge for themselves.
So I think Mrs. Wombat is just being vary cautious by insisting that two pilots are on board. After all two pilots means twice the eyeballs looking out, twice the brain power if things go wrong, and she perhaps understands that one adult may need to supervise the children, leaving you free to concentrate on the flying. Fuji Abound's solution seems the best. Find a friend who will come with you for free.
Instructors and Examiners have to earn a living, but I don't see the need to pay them to sit next to you as safety pilot, when another PPL would do. As Pilotage and Fuji say, once you have flown with other people for a while (both pilots and non-pilots) and they have reported back to Mrs. Wombat that you are very safe, I'm sure some of her resistance will disappear.
An article in the PFA magazine recently described a similar situation, where as the aeroplane took off, Mum on the ground thought "My whole life is in that aircraft!" - so you have got to see Mrs. Wombat's point, she doesn't want to lose any of you!
So I think Mrs. Wombat is just being vary cautious by insisting that two pilots are on board. After all two pilots means twice the eyeballs looking out, twice the brain power if things go wrong, and she perhaps understands that one adult may need to supervise the children, leaving you free to concentrate on the flying. Fuji Abound's solution seems the best. Find a friend who will come with you for free.
Instructors and Examiners have to earn a living, but I don't see the need to pay them to sit next to you as safety pilot, when another PPL would do. As Pilotage and Fuji say, once you have flown with other people for a while (both pilots and non-pilots) and they have reported back to Mrs. Wombat that you are very safe, I'm sure some of her resistance will disappear.
An article in the PFA magazine recently described a similar situation, where as the aeroplane took off, Mum on the ground thought "My whole life is in that aircraft!" - so you have got to see Mrs. Wombat's point, she doesn't want to lose any of you!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mrs FD will do the safety course so that she can pilot the machine back after I become incapacitated. This to enable her to cash in on the life insurance policies.
GtW:
Get some experience under your belt by flying solo and with mates and once you are in the groove take her on a day out. Select good weather, comfortable aircraft and pleasant destination (so don't go for the average portacabin with kettle outfit)
Make it a great day and spend lavishly on her.
She will never moan again.
FD
GtW:
Get some experience under your belt by flying solo and with mates and once you are in the groove take her on a day out. Select good weather, comfortable aircraft and pleasant destination (so don't go for the average portacabin with kettle outfit)
Make it a great day and spend lavishly on her.
She will never moan again.
FD
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Paros, Greece
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funnily enough, never come across this. My other half was glad for me to take our 7 year old as my first passenger as soon as my licence arrived. Wifey's a bit of a nervous flyer and to be honest I think she was thinking "thank god he's not taking me!"
My advice: Tell her you're taking the kid for a day at the seaside/theme park etc. and go flying - kid will love it so much they'll never let on to mum for fear of not being taken again - honest
If she finds out and divorces you - you can go flying whenver you want!
Seriously, the only people I've come across who had problems of this nature are a couple I know who have agreed to come with me seperatley, but not together. They don't want to leave several orphans behind if anything goes wrong. Can sort of see their point actually.
My advice: Tell her you're taking the kid for a day at the seaside/theme park etc. and go flying - kid will love it so much they'll never let on to mum for fear of not being taken again - honest
If she finds out and divorces you - you can go flying whenver you want!Seriously, the only people I've come across who had problems of this nature are a couple I know who have agreed to come with me seperatley, but not together. They don't want to leave several orphans behind if anything goes wrong. Can sort of see their point actually.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Intersting subject, there was a good thread back in November 2001 by Aussie Andy on first flights with the kids, well worth a read.
Flirst flight with wife and kids on board
Speedy
Flirst flight with wife and kids on board
Speedy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: England
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am very fortunate. Mrs QNH and I have never had a problem with this. The only surprising thing used to be when I'd ask one of my sons if they wanted to come flying on a nice Sunday afternoon, and they would reply that they really should finish off their homework. I never showed such responsibility at school!
Mrs QNH decided to do the safety pilot's course which included 8 hours formal training, flying from the rhs, and finished with her demonstrating a D & D radar-vectored recovery to a large ATC controlled airport. She found it very satisfying (all except for the AOPA certificate which seemed a very disappointing rip-off).
Because we often fly taildraggers, Mrs QNH did the bulk of the flying in a taildragger (seemed sensible) but she did an hour or two in a Cessna to see how that landed and couldn't believe how it just kept rolling straight down the runway.
She has no ambition to get a pilot's licence of her own but is planning to get an RT licence, and also learn how to do simple instrument flying.
The only thing she is a bit uncomfortable about is when I go flying in my freaky little single seater. She doesn't even like sitting in it on the ground.
Mrs QNH decided to do the safety pilot's course which included 8 hours formal training, flying from the rhs, and finished with her demonstrating a D & D radar-vectored recovery to a large ATC controlled airport. She found it very satisfying (all except for the AOPA certificate which seemed a very disappointing rip-off).
Because we often fly taildraggers, Mrs QNH did the bulk of the flying in a taildragger (seemed sensible) but she did an hour or two in a Cessna to see how that landed and couldn't believe how it just kept rolling straight down the runway.
She has no ambition to get a pilot's licence of her own but is planning to get an RT licence, and also learn how to do simple instrument flying.
The only thing she is a bit uncomfortable about is when I go flying in my freaky little single seater. She doesn't even like sitting in it on the ground.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: E Anglia
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just for a variation on a theme:
Cusco and Mrs Cusco allowed theselves (plus no.1 daughter aged 15) to be flown in a warrior by no1 son (aged 17) a monthafter getting his PPL.
Said son the proceeded to scare the cr*p out of Mrs Cusco by a series of steep turns, allegedly to point out some ground feature, the effect of which was that Mrs Cusco has not been in a SEL since.
Which is a great pity as shortly after, Cusco got his PPL but flies sans Mrs Cusco.
She's quite happy for (grown -up) Kids to fly with Cusco however, but that single episode of carelessness wrecked a lot of potential cosy lunchtime trips to France.
ah well......
Cusco
Cusco and Mrs Cusco allowed theselves (plus no.1 daughter aged 15) to be flown in a warrior by no1 son (aged 17) a monthafter getting his PPL.
Said son the proceeded to scare the cr*p out of Mrs Cusco by a series of steep turns, allegedly to point out some ground feature, the effect of which was that Mrs Cusco has not been in a SEL since.
Which is a great pity as shortly after, Cusco got his PPL but flies sans Mrs Cusco.
She's quite happy for (grown -up) Kids to fly with Cusco however, but that single episode of carelessness wrecked a lot of potential cosy lunchtime trips to France.
ah well......
Cusco
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Mrs Wombat wouldn't be bothered by steep turns per se - we've been on a trip which involved steep turns over a glacier ('cos I'd just run out of film so the pilot said he'd hang around whilst I changed it and did a couple of orbits) between walls of rock.
Interesting, that. I'd always been taught to increase power for a steep turn, but this guy cut the power. On being questioned he explained that this was to keep the orbit within the space available between the cliffs on either side ...
Interesting, that. I'd always been taught to increase power for a steep turn, but this guy cut the power. On being questioned he explained that this was to keep the orbit within the space available between the cliffs on either side ...
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in the same situation as you Wombat. I've taken friends up and to be honest am quite confident (probably in the unconcious incompetance stage of knowledge, but what the hell) but my wife isn't to keen on going up with me or me taking the kids.
However she has at least agreed to a family flight from Sherburn to Shoreham over the summer to see my parents, so hopefully that will be a start, although I think an hour or two just bimbling over the local area may be needed to build up her confidence first. At least that is what I hope it will do
Andy
However she has at least agreed to a family flight from Sherburn to Shoreham over the summer to see my parents, so hopefully that will be a start, although I think an hour or two just bimbling over the local area may be needed to build up her confidence first. At least that is what I hope it will do
Andy
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Westwind,
You're right of course; there's a kind of general unspoken feeling among men, women, flying schools and the world in general that women can't, don't, won't, really actually fly.
Not on PPRuNe I'm sure, so spare me the protests. Or, if they do, they're kind of eternal students; I was in a flying school the other day, having just dropped in for lunch, and someone asked me if I was learning to fly; no problem, but they always ask that, never "What do you fly?" or "Are you a pilot?". No folks, I'm not being over-sensititive; I gave up caring long ago. If I happen to mention I have a CPL and Instructors Rating they don't actually hear me; well I know from another life that it's well known by psychologists that you can't perceive anything which you believe to be impossible. But all that might explain some women's reluctance to learn to fly; it's hard to do something you're that sure is impossible.
However, for all of you planning on getting your wives to do the Safety Course, I suggest you save up first if you're paying for it; I know of several women who started their PPLs that way! Deep-rooted beliefs can change when we get our hands on the controls!
You're right of course; there's a kind of general unspoken feeling among men, women, flying schools and the world in general that women can't, don't, won't, really actually fly.
Not on PPRuNe I'm sure, so spare me the protests. Or, if they do, they're kind of eternal students; I was in a flying school the other day, having just dropped in for lunch, and someone asked me if I was learning to fly; no problem, but they always ask that, never "What do you fly?" or "Are you a pilot?". No folks, I'm not being over-sensititive; I gave up caring long ago. If I happen to mention I have a CPL and Instructors Rating they don't actually hear me; well I know from another life that it's well known by psychologists that you can't perceive anything which you believe to be impossible. But all that might explain some women's reluctance to learn to fly; it's hard to do something you're that sure is impossible. However, for all of you planning on getting your wives to do the Safety Course, I suggest you save up first if you're paying for it; I know of several women who started their PPLs that way! Deep-rooted beliefs can change when we get our hands on the controls!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The story so far ...
Now I've had the licence back for a while, and taken various other people flying, one of the kids keeps nagging about me taking him, so I say "it's OK by me, just check with your mother", and she says no again, not without another pilot in the aircraft.
To be fair it's not entirely just me, she doesn't really like single pilot operations at all - whenever we're flightseeing or whatever - or even on scheduled single pilot flights! - she encourages me to sit at the front so I can take over if the pilot falls ill.
So, all my asking around so far being in vain (for someone prepared to sit in the RHS of a 172 and do nothing and not be able to log the time) ... do any PPRuNers round Cambridge feel like helping out ...... ?
To be fair it's not entirely just me, she doesn't really like single pilot operations at all - whenever we're flightseeing or whatever - or even on scheduled single pilot flights! - she encourages me to sit at the front so I can take over if the pilot falls ill.
So, all my asking around so far being in vain (for someone prepared to sit in the RHS of a 172 and do nothing and not be able to log the time) ... do any PPRuNers round Cambridge feel like helping out ...... ?
So close, and yet so far!
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Uk
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, can't really help much with this one, as my eldest son was my first post-PPL passenger, and my ex seemed to have no worries about this...
Has your wife ever been flying with you? Does she travel in the car with you? Does she worry about you going flying on your own?
GF
Has your wife ever been flying with you? Does she travel in the car with you? Does she worry about you going flying on your own?
GF