NOTAM site 'upgrade'
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Danger.
Thanks Mr C.
I spent about 2 hours writting them in by hand last night... locating each one using the PDF, and estimating where the center of each mass is by reference to the chart.
...Two hours, and I only managed to get through 50N and 51N. Still, as it happens, that is half way through the document (page 9 of 18
)
...Two hours, and I forgot to upload it last night!!
Now I've got 8 hours at work without anything to distract me
Oooh. Top of page. I'll post the URL again:
www.benchapman.co.uk/preflight/altais/parser.asp
I spent about 2 hours writting them in by hand last night... locating each one using the PDF, and estimating where the center of each mass is by reference to the chart.
...Two hours, and I only managed to get through 50N and 51N. Still, as it happens, that is half way through the document (page 9 of 18
)...Two hours, and I forgot to upload it last night!!
Now I've got 8 hours at work without anything to distract me
Oooh. Top of page. I'll post the URL again:
www.benchapman.co.uk/preflight/altais/parser.asp
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Ben, fantastic.
But to my mind there's something illogical about this process.
I'll walk through it, see if you can see what I mean...!
(1)
Data at AIS has Q-Line, wherein amongst other things are the latitude, longitude and the radius of influence of the NOTAM data.
(2)
For no good reason, other than software unsuitability, this useful information is not presented to the (web) users of the data
(3)
A.Another, using data provided by NATS/AIS, creates a lookup table to recreate the latitude and longitude of the NOTAM data by parsing the ICAO code information provided
IS IT JUST ME
But to my mind there's something illogical about this process.
I'll walk through it, see if you can see what I mean...!
(1)
Data at AIS has Q-Line, wherein amongst other things are the latitude, longitude and the radius of influence of the NOTAM data.
(2)
For no good reason, other than software unsuitability, this useful information is not presented to the (web) users of the data
(3)
A.Another, using data provided by NATS/AIS, creates a lookup table to recreate the latitude and longitude of the NOTAM data by parsing the ICAO code information provided
IS IT JUST ME
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Illogical is said A.N.Other having to resort to copying BY HAND all the information published by NATS because Copy has been disabled in all their PDF files. 
As MrCross said in a private message, it is a slap in the face to NATS for refusing to give out the Q-Line...
If I get the chance to be more adventurous, I'll try to do more with it, such as bringing 'un-plotted' notices to the top of the page, or highlighting them in some other way.
As MrCross said in a private message, it is a slap in the face to NATS for refusing to give out the Q-Line...
If I get the chance to be more adventurous, I'll try to do more with it, such as bringing 'un-plotted' notices to the top of the page, or highlighting them in some other way.
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Dusty B said
"Illogical is said A.N.Other having to resort to copying BY HAND all the information published by NATS because Copy has been disabled in all their PDF files. "
On 3 October I attended a meeting at AIS Heathrow which was attended by the Project Manager, Alan Burrill of NATS IS/IT. Prior to the meeting I had prepared and submitted a paper which included:-
"UK AIP
.pdf files for the UKAIP do not permit text selection, preventing “cut and paste” which is a useful feature for anyone writing documentation or software that refers to AIP or uses the data contained within it. For example, someone wanting to write a decode program for the AIS abbreviations in GEN 2-2 would need re-type around 1,400 abbreviations and their meanings!"
In our suggestions for improving the site we included:-
"We suggest that the .pdf files making up the AIP might be modified to allow text selection. This would allow users to "cut and paste" parts of the AIP into other documents, allowing for example a pilot to print his own ICAO encodes/decodes for his kneeboard."
This was published on 18 October.
On 16 October AIS added a new abbreviations page to the site in PDF format. It had text selection enabled and I wrote to Alan Burrill the Project Manager the following day saying:-
"Thanks for the site updates, I have updated our site to clear off those issues that have now been dealt with. I did notice that we now have text selection capability on the abbreviations extract from the AIP you put up - thanks for that as well."
I did not have a reply, but guess what - the ability to select text was removed.
NATS have a Code of Practice for Customer Consultation which states:-
Commitment to our customers
National Air Traffic Services Limited’s aim is to be the world leader in the
provision of en-route and airport air traffic management services. To this end,
we are always looking for ways to improve by actively listening to our
customers' needs and acting upon them. We do this a number of ways
including holding regular formal and ad hoc customer consultation group
meetings on a wide range of subjects. Building on this, NATS is also keen to
develop one-to-one relationships with customers in order to enhance its
understanding of your organisation’s needs.
Gives one a nice warm feeling doesn't it.
Mike
"Illogical is said A.N.Other having to resort to copying BY HAND all the information published by NATS because Copy has been disabled in all their PDF files. "
On 3 October I attended a meeting at AIS Heathrow which was attended by the Project Manager, Alan Burrill of NATS IS/IT. Prior to the meeting I had prepared and submitted a paper which included:-
"UK AIP
.pdf files for the UKAIP do not permit text selection, preventing “cut and paste” which is a useful feature for anyone writing documentation or software that refers to AIP or uses the data contained within it. For example, someone wanting to write a decode program for the AIS abbreviations in GEN 2-2 would need re-type around 1,400 abbreviations and their meanings!"
In our suggestions for improving the site we included:-
"We suggest that the .pdf files making up the AIP might be modified to allow text selection. This would allow users to "cut and paste" parts of the AIP into other documents, allowing for example a pilot to print his own ICAO encodes/decodes for his kneeboard."
This was published on 18 October.
On 16 October AIS added a new abbreviations page to the site in PDF format. It had text selection enabled and I wrote to Alan Burrill the Project Manager the following day saying:-
"Thanks for the site updates, I have updated our site to clear off those issues that have now been dealt with. I did notice that we now have text selection capability on the abbreviations extract from the AIP you put up - thanks for that as well."
I did not have a reply, but guess what - the ability to select text was removed.
NATS have a Code of Practice for Customer Consultation which states:-
Commitment to our customers
National Air Traffic Services Limited’s aim is to be the world leader in the
provision of en-route and airport air traffic management services. To this end,
we are always looking for ways to improve by actively listening to our
customers' needs and acting upon them. We do this a number of ways
including holding regular formal and ad hoc customer consultation group
meetings on a wide range of subjects. Building on this, NATS is also keen to
develop one-to-one relationships with customers in order to enhance its
understanding of your organisation’s needs.
Gives one a nice warm feeling doesn't it.
Mike
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Dusty_B -- check your PMs
This any use?
EG D001 Trevose Head
ALT 1000 Activity: Helicopter Exercises including winching (Air Force Dept).
501918N 0053042W - 502400N 0053900W - SFC Hours: Mon-Thu 0800-2359, Fri 0800-1800 Winter (Summer 1hr earlier).
503200N 0053400W - 503930N 0052400W - Service: DACS: St. Mawgan APP on 126.500 MHz when open. Other
504300N 0051230W - 503830N 0050430W - times DAAIS: London Information on 124.750 MHz.
501918N 0053042W. Remarks: Nil.
‡ EG D003 Plymouth
Up to Activity: Ship Exercises / Target Towing / Firing / Pilotless Target Aircraft
501001N 0034740W - 500339N 0033430W - ALT 55000 (Navy Dept).
494105N 0034912W - 493719N 0040938W - SFC Hours: Mon-Thu 0800-2359, Fri 0800-1600 Winter (Summer 1hr earlier);
501001N 0034740W. Subject to and as notified.
co-ordination Service: DACS: Plymouth Military on 121.250 MHz when open; other
procedures times London Mil via London Information on 124.750 MHz.
above Remarks: Pre-flight information may be obtained from Plymouth
ALT 22000 Operations, Tel: 01752-557550.
‡ EG D004 Plymouth
Up to Activity: Ship Exercises / Target Towing / Firing / Pilotless Target Aircraft
500339N 0033430W - 500103N 0032910W - ALT 55000 (Navy Dept).
494653N 0031655W - 494105N 0034912W - SFC Hours: Mon-Thu 0800-2359, Fri 0800-1600 Winter (Summer 1hr earlier);
500339N 0033430W. Subject to and as notified.
co-ordination Service: DACS: Plymouth Military on 121.250 MHz when open; other
procedures times London Mil via London Information on 124.750 MHz.
above Remarks: Pre-flight information may be obtained from Plymouth
ALT 22000 Operations, Tel: 01752-557550.
This any use?
EG D001 Trevose Head
ALT 1000 Activity: Helicopter Exercises including winching (Air Force Dept).
501918N 0053042W - 502400N 0053900W - SFC Hours: Mon-Thu 0800-2359, Fri 0800-1800 Winter (Summer 1hr earlier).
503200N 0053400W - 503930N 0052400W - Service: DACS: St. Mawgan APP on 126.500 MHz when open. Other
504300N 0051230W - 503830N 0050430W - times DAAIS: London Information on 124.750 MHz.
501918N 0053042W. Remarks: Nil.
‡ EG D003 Plymouth
Up to Activity: Ship Exercises / Target Towing / Firing / Pilotless Target Aircraft
501001N 0034740W - 500339N 0033430W - ALT 55000 (Navy Dept).
494105N 0034912W - 493719N 0040938W - SFC Hours: Mon-Thu 0800-2359, Fri 0800-1600 Winter (Summer 1hr earlier);
501001N 0034740W. Subject to and as notified.
co-ordination Service: DACS: Plymouth Military on 121.250 MHz when open; other
procedures times London Mil via London Information on 124.750 MHz.
above Remarks: Pre-flight information may be obtained from Plymouth
ALT 22000 Operations, Tel: 01752-557550.
‡ EG D004 Plymouth
Up to Activity: Ship Exercises / Target Towing / Firing / Pilotless Target Aircraft
500339N 0033430W - 500103N 0032910W - ALT 55000 (Navy Dept).
494653N 0031655W - 494105N 0034912W - SFC Hours: Mon-Thu 0800-2359, Fri 0800-1600 Winter (Summer 1hr earlier);
500339N 0033430W. Subject to and as notified.
co-ordination Service: DACS: Plymouth Military on 121.250 MHz when open; other
procedures times London Mil via London Information on 124.750 MHz.
above Remarks: Pre-flight information may be obtained from Plymouth
ALT 22000 Operations, Tel: 01752-557550.
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AltAIS Parser now includes (limited) Danger Areas
The Notam Parser can now identify Danger Areas.
Support is limited to EG D001 to EG D147 (ie 50N and 51N), but I will get the rest in by the end of the weekend.
One word of warning:
Where there are sub-danger areas (Dxxx, DxxxA, DxxxB), it will identify ALL of them as the first.
Where there is no Dxxx, it will correctly identify the A and B part.
Support is limited to EG D001 to EG D147 (ie 50N and 51N), but I will get the rest in by the end of the weekend.
One word of warning:
Where there are sub-danger areas (Dxxx, DxxxA, DxxxB), it will identify ALL of them as the first.
Where there is no Dxxx, it will correctly identify the A and B part.
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So Dusty_B
Now you have all the DA gubbins input
is everyone using your site www.benchapman.co.uk/preflight/altais/parser.asp
Now you have all the DA gubbins input
but I will get the rest in by the end of the weekend
Can't login?
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It wasn't you. Our webserver was down on Wednesday night.
Still, our up-time is better than AIS!!!
For those who have visited AltAIS, I have noticed that not many have actually used the Parser yet, but many have used the Area Briefing jump-start page.
The briefings produced are direct from the AIS website, and still need to be manually fed through the Parser. (The AIS system doesn't allow external websites to grab the information we need).
AltAIS is the word. Spread the word.
Still, our up-time is better than AIS!!!
For those who have visited AltAIS, I have noticed that not many have actually used the Parser yet, but many have used the Area Briefing jump-start page.
The briefings produced are direct from the AIS website, and still need to be manually fed through the Parser. (The AIS system doesn't allow external websites to grab the information we need).
AltAIS is the word. Spread the word.
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Contacting MPs...
You may find the http://www.faxyourmp.com/ site useful for contacting your MP (or indeed any other that you wish to hassle 
)
)
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CAA Requires Action from NATS/AIS
The CAA have now published details of the action they require from NATS/AIS.
Please visit
http://www.telecall.uk.com/ais/news!.htm
where you can see the actions that are being required.
Then please give us some feedback on the forums.
Mike
Please visit
http://www.telecall.uk.com/ais/news!.htm
where you can see the actions that are being required.
Then please give us some feedback on the forums.
Mike
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mrcross - very impressive, well done you two for your role in greasing the wheels, and I must say I am pleased to see the regulator being so clear and open. Surely there's a knighthood in this somewhere!?
I guess it will still take some time to be implemented, but I'd say it would've been lomnger without your paper creating the necessary focus on this issue needed to precipotate the meeting and actions.
Cheers,
I guess it will still take some time to be implemented, but I'd say it would've been lomnger without your paper creating the necessary focus on this issue needed to precipotate the meeting and actions.
Cheers,
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Rustle, MRCross, from what I read it sounds like one more step in the right direction. Thanks once again for all the efforts you have both put in to achieving this. I was also pleased to note that representatives from a number of other organisations, including AOPA, were present at the meeting.
Hopefully the CAA's efforts will encourage the results we are all looking for.
Rustle and Mike added in their commentary that:
As a NATS user, I have to agree with this completely. I can only hope that making such a comment in the public domain will encourage the subject of the comment (i.e. NATS) to make strenuous efforts to prove that the problems prompting the comment were a one-off and will be rectified quickly.
Although the notes are generally quite encouraging, it is still sad to see that yet more time will pass before the issues are resolved. Most of the comments demand action before "the new GA flying season", despite the fact that GA activity only slows down during the winter - it does not stop completely. Nearly four months after the initial launch of ADIMS, GA pilots are being asked to wait up to another four months for reliable, useable, safety critical information.
The CAA comments also include a worthwhile and timely reminder to GA pilots that they must make every effort to self-brief for every flight. This has to include obtaining, reading and digesting the NOTAMs, and just because it is harder than it should be at the moment, the obligation is still there. Hopefully we have now seen the end of the "missing NOTAM" disaster (for those who haven't spotted it earlier in this thread, the trick for narrow route briefs is to make sure the departure and destination airfields are different - i.e. don't produce "circular" routes. Thanks to Mike Cross for spotting this one) however it is worth cross-checking against known events (such as airshows) as published in magazines and on websites just in case.
As I said at the start, it is a credit to all involved both that the GA community has found a voice and that the authorities are listening. As a result we now have one more significant step in the right direction - may it be followed by many more.
MD
[Edited to correct a misunderstanding on my part as pointed out to me by Mike]
Hopefully the CAA's efforts will encourage the results we are all looking for.
Rustle and Mike added in their commentary that:
We are also not convinced that NATS as an organisation is sufficiently committed to improvement. NATS have suggested a timescale of up to 12 months for the provision of downloadable raw data, however Thales have not been asked to provide an estimate. This figure therefore seems to confirm NATS lack of commitment to meeting users needs.
Although the notes are generally quite encouraging, it is still sad to see that yet more time will pass before the issues are resolved. Most of the comments demand action before "the new GA flying season", despite the fact that GA activity only slows down during the winter - it does not stop completely. Nearly four months after the initial launch of ADIMS, GA pilots are being asked to wait up to another four months for reliable, useable, safety critical information.
The CAA comments also include a worthwhile and timely reminder to GA pilots that they must make every effort to self-brief for every flight. This has to include obtaining, reading and digesting the NOTAMs, and just because it is harder than it should be at the moment, the obligation is still there. Hopefully we have now seen the end of the "missing NOTAM" disaster (for those who haven't spotted it earlier in this thread, the trick for narrow route briefs is to make sure the departure and destination airfields are different - i.e. don't produce "circular" routes. Thanks to Mike Cross for spotting this one) however it is worth cross-checking against known events (such as airshows) as published in magazines and on websites just in case.
As I said at the start, it is a credit to all involved both that the GA community has found a voice and that the authorities are listening. As a result we now have one more significant step in the right direction - may it be followed by many more.
MD
[Edited to correct a misunderstanding on my part as pointed out to me by Mike]
Last edited by ModernDinosaur; 4th Dec 2002 at 07:56.
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A quick correction -
"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are also not convinced that NATS as an organisation is sufficiently committed to improvement. NATS have suggested a timescale of up to 12 months for the provision of downloadable raw data, however Thales have not been asked to provide an estimate. This figure therefore seems to confirm NATS lack of commitment to meeting users needs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"
These are the comments of the GA representatives and not the official view of the CAA.
There are two reports here. One is the report from the Regulator, which is the CAA's official response.
The other is a summary of the results of the meeting, endorsed by the GA representatives named at the bottom of it, together with their reaction.
While we hope that the CAA share our view it would be wrong to treat the comment as an official CAA statement.
Mike
"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are also not convinced that NATS as an organisation is sufficiently committed to improvement. NATS have suggested a timescale of up to 12 months for the provision of downloadable raw data, however Thales have not been asked to provide an estimate. This figure therefore seems to confirm NATS lack of commitment to meeting users needs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"
These are the comments of the GA representatives and not the official view of the CAA.
There are two reports here. One is the report from the Regulator, which is the CAA's official response.
The other is a summary of the results of the meeting, endorsed by the GA representatives named at the bottom of it, together with their reaction.
While we hope that the CAA share our view it would be wrong to treat the comment as an official CAA statement.
Mike
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NOTAMS
As a GA pilot flying about 150hours a year the notam website is of immense importance on an almost daily basis just as it is for the occasional user. I wrote to my MP as has been suggested earlier and I found the most detailed questions put to the CAA and NATS. All copies of corespondence were copied to me and where a reply was not adequate or explicit my MP took it up again without further prompting. The lesson.......... USE YOUR MP - YOU PAY HIM
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BL**DY TYPICAL!!!!!
First decent day off for ages. The weather is beautiful. It's my week for the aircraft....so lets go flying....check the weather....yeap, the met man agrees...right let's check the notams. Enter the flight details and wait....and wait....and wait....and wait....
ERROR. The server is down
Hasd to ring AIS at LHR to get a briefing.
No change there then!
Happy Christmas (not) to NATS
ERROR. The server is down
Hasd to ring AIS at LHR to get a briefing.
No change there then!
Happy Christmas (not) to NATS
Last edited by Flap40; 18th Dec 2002 at 17:06.
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I've noticed a small bug on the AIS NOTAM system today - no big deal as it seems to only relate to flights which enter and leave an FIR more than once in a sector (say from LFFF - EBBU - LFFF for example). I will report it through the usual channels.
It got me thinking though: this system really is working well now generally speaking, and all the noise has died down since this thread was raging a year or more back! This may be in part because everyone has simply got used to it, but I know it is also because of all the work that Mike, Rustle et al and the guys at NATS have put in since the initial uproar.
All's well that ends well then! Or is it just me!?
Cheers!
Andy
It got me thinking though: this system really is working well now generally speaking, and all the noise has died down since this thread was raging a year or more back! This may be in part because everyone has simply got used to it, but I know it is also because of all the work that Mike, Rustle et al and the guys at NATS have put in since the initial uproar.
All's well that ends well then! Or is it just me!?
Cheers!
Andy
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Andy, I'm sure the guys (and ladies) at AIS very much appreciate your comment.
There are still tweaks to the system going on and I am still in touch.
AIS will be moving some time in the new year to Northolt to co-locate with No 1 AIDU. Maybe we can persuade them to organise a fly-in!
Mike
There are still tweaks to the system going on and I am still in touch.
AIS will be moving some time in the new year to Northolt to co-locate with No 1 AIDU. Maybe we can persuade them to organise a fly-in!
Mike
I still find it a pain to use. I need to submit two separate flights in order to obtain notams for the altitudes I need.
Various other niggles that haven't changed over the last year. This day & age and it STILL doesn't allow graphical display...
Various other niggles that haven't changed over the last year. This day & age and it STILL doesn't allow graphical display...