NOTAM site 'upgrade'
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Graphical presentation of NOTAM data
Thanks QDM
My own view is that independent developers will get there first, hoever to do the job they need access to the whole of the NOTAM message, including the Q Line, which does not appear in the bulletins that were available in the past, or the current bulletins.
Included in the Q Line are the geographic location and the radius of influence which IMHO are essential to anyone producing a graphical presentation. For example there may be a TRA centred on an airfield, greatly increasing its CTZ for an airshow. You look at the map presentation. See a highlight on the airfield, but you're routing clear of their zone so you don't see it as relevant and blunder straight into the TRA.
I am trying to get us to a position where we have a daily download of an FIR aerodrome briefing and another download of an FIR en-route briefing, with geographic sorting so every airfield can have a standard briefing like the old A1/A8.
I would also like us to have a daily FIR download of the entire NOTAM, including the Q Line. This would enable you to load the information into a third-party software package to produce the presentation you want a la NotamPlot.
There would also be a market for an online service such as AvBrief where they would have live up to the minute data using a leased line into AIS.
Getting AIS/Thales to come up with a graphical presentation is a great idea but as the database is worldwide it's more of a job and likely to require significant development time and cost so I don't think we'll see it in the immediate future. They do read these posts so maybe they'll surprise us!
Mike
My own view is that independent developers will get there first, hoever to do the job they need access to the whole of the NOTAM message, including the Q Line, which does not appear in the bulletins that were available in the past, or the current bulletins.
Included in the Q Line are the geographic location and the radius of influence which IMHO are essential to anyone producing a graphical presentation. For example there may be a TRA centred on an airfield, greatly increasing its CTZ for an airshow. You look at the map presentation. See a highlight on the airfield, but you're routing clear of their zone so you don't see it as relevant and blunder straight into the TRA.
I am trying to get us to a position where we have a daily download of an FIR aerodrome briefing and another download of an FIR en-route briefing, with geographic sorting so every airfield can have a standard briefing like the old A1/A8.
I would also like us to have a daily FIR download of the entire NOTAM, including the Q Line. This would enable you to load the information into a third-party software package to produce the presentation you want a la NotamPlot.
There would also be a market for an online service such as AvBrief where they would have live up to the minute data using a leased line into AIS.
Getting AIS/Thales to come up with a graphical presentation is a great idea but as the database is worldwide it's more of a job and likely to require significant development time and cost so I don't think we'll see it in the immediate future. They do read these posts so maybe they'll surprise us!
Mike
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Typos
Apologies - my typing fingers think that DNA is an acronym for the National Dyslexia Association, and they are agnostic as well so they're not sure whether Dog really exists either.
PPruNaholic!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buckinghamshire
Age: 61
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mrcross, rustle - fabulous guys - very impressed, and they are lucky you guys have the time for this! I am willing to help in anyway, but think best I can do is report bugs here as I see them...
Cheers,
Cheers,
Guest
Posts: n/a
From Flyer Website;
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AIS website offline
11 - 10 - 2002
If you are having trouble accessing the AIS website today (Friday) that's because it has crashed.
We are told that BAA cut the power to the tower at Heathrow last night and since then the AIS website servers keep falling over every time they are fired up. Engineers from Thales are apparently investigating the problem. In the meantime, anyone requiring Notam or wishing to plan a flight can ring 020 8745 3464.
FLYER Comment
Enough is enough. This farce has got to stop - now.
Flyer Ed Nick Wall
-------------------------------------------------------
Good on you Nick.
Rod
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AIS website offline
11 - 10 - 2002
If you are having trouble accessing the AIS website today (Friday) that's because it has crashed.
We are told that BAA cut the power to the tower at Heathrow last night and since then the AIS website servers keep falling over every time they are fired up. Engineers from Thales are apparently investigating the problem. In the meantime, anyone requiring Notam or wishing to plan a flight can ring 020 8745 3464.
FLYER Comment
Enough is enough. This farce has got to stop - now.
Flyer Ed Nick Wall
-------------------------------------------------------
Good on you Nick.
Rod
PPruNaholic!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buckinghamshire
Age: 61
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Essential Service?
Why on earth have they not provisioned an offsite installation of mirrored servers in an external managed hosting environment (and those associated with the industry will know this is relatively cheap these days!) to provide for high-availability and disaster recovery scenarios? This is normal for essential services... and NATS, as a business built largely on information systems, should understand this.........
Carbonfibre-based lifeform
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AA,
My guess is because they:
a) Don't know what they're bleedin' well doing
and
b) Haven't got the sense to employ an outfit who does
and
c) Can't resist fiddling with something that was working to the satisfaction of its users before they messed about with it
Do I win a prize for the right answer?
My guess is because they:
a) Don't know what they're bleedin' well doing
and
b) Haven't got the sense to employ an outfit who does
and
c) Can't resist fiddling with something that was working to the satisfaction of its users before they messed about with it
Do I win a prize for the right answer?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NOTAMs
The avbrief site does have the NOTAMs as well and it seems that they are testing out a graphical version as well - the data isn't up to date, but presumably it will be at some point.
However, you *can* still get access to the text version - even though it places the north of England in Scotland...
However, you *can* still get access to the text version - even though it places the north of England in Scotland...
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Statement from AIS re site outage
Phil Bate, Manager UK AIS sent me the following email on Friday evening (11 Oct). Unfortunately it was to my office email so I didn't get to see it until this morning.
Mike
Mike/Russell,
You will no doubt be aware that the web has been off-line today. This began
last night (Thurs) when the BAA had a programmed power interruption to the
Control Tower. This of course should not have caused any difficulties as
absolutely everything here is protected by back-up generators and UPS.
Although we have a suspicion that an individual UPS may have allowed a 'grey
spike' to encroach, we do not as yet know the exact problem but suffice to
say that there was a difficulty with the 'Replica Server' which as you may
recall lies between the ADIMS database and the web servers, protected by a
firewall on both sides. Having struggled locally for some time to get
things going, the supplier was informed and asked to provide support under
the warranty agreement. They have done this remotely for most of the day
with no success (partly due to the efficiency of the firewalls) and decided
a few minutes ago to call it a day. They are flying a team over early
tomorrow morning and we are also going to be in attendance. NATS has made
it very clear that we cannot run a 24/7 service with this level of
instability and that we must at all costs achieve a stable environment from
now on (which in software term we thought we had done up to last night).
Please can I ask you to post something on the various sites explaining that
we really are trying 110% to sort this out and we apologise for the
interruption of service but we are now in the hands of our supplier (who to
be fair is also showing the fullest commitment). We will be staffed to
provide support to those requiring a briefing on the usual number (020 8745
3464 - If busy try 3450 or Fax. 3453) and ask that pilots also try their
'local' international airport flight briefing unit, who should be able to
supply information from the bulletins (A1/A8 etc. - I've heard of them
before!). We will also be faxing and e-mailing pre-prepared briefs to
clubs/aerodromes requesting them.
I can't tell you just how devastating a blow this is to my staff who were
just beginning to look forward to some stability, a reduction in pressure
and the next phase of development. Instead they are now having to bear some
serious individual abuse, which of course is terribly unfair but I guess
understandable. They will endeavour to maintain their cool and will as
always give the fullest support to our customers. We do record the
telephone lines and will use this if we need to in extreme cases of abuse.
I believe that I have the highest quality staff and I have unfortunately
just recently had to accept a resignation and I don't need more of that as
they are almost impossible to replace.
We will be sending an advisory notice via AFTN and FAX.
On other topics, when I get a minute I will talk to you both about the way
forward as I think that I have identified a route which might interest you
and others, also with the support of our Regulator and SRG.
Update to above, sent on Friday at 21:17
Mike
Mike/Russell,
I have just been informed that our engineers here have found the problem and
fixed it. The Web is stable, updating and operating successfully and we
have put the French team on hold. You might still want to place something
on the forums for me though. I am very grateful to the NATS staff involved
in this, who have demonstrated exceptional commitment and ability. We WILL
get there in the end despite some very testing times and our promise to
provide the best possible service is not a hollow one.
Thanks for your help in this.
Regards,
Phil
Mike
Mike/Russell,
You will no doubt be aware that the web has been off-line today. This began
last night (Thurs) when the BAA had a programmed power interruption to the
Control Tower. This of course should not have caused any difficulties as
absolutely everything here is protected by back-up generators and UPS.
Although we have a suspicion that an individual UPS may have allowed a 'grey
spike' to encroach, we do not as yet know the exact problem but suffice to
say that there was a difficulty with the 'Replica Server' which as you may
recall lies between the ADIMS database and the web servers, protected by a
firewall on both sides. Having struggled locally for some time to get
things going, the supplier was informed and asked to provide support under
the warranty agreement. They have done this remotely for most of the day
with no success (partly due to the efficiency of the firewalls) and decided
a few minutes ago to call it a day. They are flying a team over early
tomorrow morning and we are also going to be in attendance. NATS has made
it very clear that we cannot run a 24/7 service with this level of
instability and that we must at all costs achieve a stable environment from
now on (which in software term we thought we had done up to last night).
Please can I ask you to post something on the various sites explaining that
we really are trying 110% to sort this out and we apologise for the
interruption of service but we are now in the hands of our supplier (who to
be fair is also showing the fullest commitment). We will be staffed to
provide support to those requiring a briefing on the usual number (020 8745
3464 - If busy try 3450 or Fax. 3453) and ask that pilots also try their
'local' international airport flight briefing unit, who should be able to
supply information from the bulletins (A1/A8 etc. - I've heard of them
before!). We will also be faxing and e-mailing pre-prepared briefs to
clubs/aerodromes requesting them.
I can't tell you just how devastating a blow this is to my staff who were
just beginning to look forward to some stability, a reduction in pressure
and the next phase of development. Instead they are now having to bear some
serious individual abuse, which of course is terribly unfair but I guess
understandable. They will endeavour to maintain their cool and will as
always give the fullest support to our customers. We do record the
telephone lines and will use this if we need to in extreme cases of abuse.
I believe that I have the highest quality staff and I have unfortunately
just recently had to accept a resignation and I don't need more of that as
they are almost impossible to replace.
We will be sending an advisory notice via AFTN and FAX.
On other topics, when I get a minute I will talk to you both about the way
forward as I think that I have identified a route which might interest you
and others, also with the support of our Regulator and SRG.
Update to above, sent on Friday at 21:17
Mike
Mike/Russell,
I have just been informed that our engineers here have found the problem and
fixed it. The Web is stable, updating and operating successfully and we
have put the French team on hold. You might still want to place something
on the forums for me though. I am very grateful to the NATS staff involved
in this, who have demonstrated exceptional commitment and ability. We WILL
get there in the end despite some very testing times and our promise to
provide the best possible service is not a hollow one.
Thanks for your help in this.
Regards,
Phil
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This just in from AIS -
============================
There will be an interruption of service both today and tomorrow for changes and upgrades.
Today is system changes and upgrades and tomorrow is the fortnightly AIRAC.
In the future we anticipate that there will be only the two planned outages per month for AIRAC and we will combine the engineering/upgrade elements at that time.
============================
You have been warned
============================
There will be an interruption of service both today and tomorrow for changes and upgrades.
Today is system changes and upgrades and tomorrow is the fortnightly AIRAC.
In the future we anticipate that there will be only the two planned outages per month for AIRAC and we will combine the engineering/upgrade elements at that time.
============================
You have been warned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all,
Have been away from the forum for a while. Glad to see that progress is being made in talking to NATs re. the website.
Have spoken to Russell and hopefully if we can get a nice straightforward, web-published feed of NOTAM information that will allow me to easily rework NotamPlot into a v2 that will return us to the land of graphical NOTAM viewing!
Ian
Have been away from the forum for a while. Glad to see that progress is being made in talking to NATs re. the website.
Have spoken to Russell and hopefully if we can get a nice straightforward, web-published feed of NOTAM information that will allow me to easily rework NotamPlot into a v2 that will return us to the land of graphical NOTAM viewing!
Ian
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ianfallon said
If you can get notamplot working again that would be very good
when can we get more news about this ?
Have spoken to Russell and hopefully if we can get a nice straightforward, web-published feed of NOTAM information that will allow me to easily rework NotamPlot into a v2 that will return us to the land of graphical NOTAM viewing
when can we get more news about this ?
PPruNaholic!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buckinghamshire
Age: 61
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Streetmap: alternative to NOTAMPLOT while we're waiting!
I guess we've all got better at plotting LAT/LONG on our maps since we've had to do without Notamplot eh!? But if you want to save a bit of time, and/or double-check your manual plotting, then here's a way to cheat...
The excellent www.streetmap.co.uk site will accept LAT/LONG input - so you can just go there, select Lat/Long, and then enter the coordinates in the appropriate format.
For example, a current NOTAM is:
You would have to enter this position into Streetmap as 51:31:38,-1:34:29. Note the use of negative number for West longitude. East longitude would be a positive number.
You then get a small scale map back from Streetmap, highlighting the position entered. Zoom out a couple of steps to a more practical scale, and you will get a results like
this, which is then easy to plot on your ICAO chart with a chinagraph pencil.
So there you go! Still... I'd rather have Notamplot!!!
The excellent www.streetmap.co.uk site will accept LAT/LONG input - so you can just go there, select Lat/Long, and then enter the coordinates in the appropriate format.
For example, a current NOTAM is:
OTH : FROM 02/10/12 00:01 TO PERM A1823/02
E)(MIL REF) AUS 02-10-DAPLC10/3101/BJ
FOLLOWING HANG GLIDING/PARASCENDING WINCH LAUNCHING SITE INTRODUCED
PARKFARM DOWN, BERKSHIRE
POSITION 513138N 0013429W
OPERATING HEIGHT 1500FT AGL
HOURS HJ
SITE ELEVATION 540FT AMSL.
(MIL REF U2243)
E)(MIL REF) AUS 02-10-DAPLC10/3101/BJ
FOLLOWING HANG GLIDING/PARASCENDING WINCH LAUNCHING SITE INTRODUCED
PARKFARM DOWN, BERKSHIRE
POSITION 513138N 0013429W
OPERATING HEIGHT 1500FT AGL
HOURS HJ
SITE ELEVATION 540FT AMSL.
(MIL REF U2243)
You then get a small scale map back from Streetmap, highlighting the position entered. Zoom out a couple of steps to a more practical scale, and you will get a results like
this, which is then easy to plot on your ICAO chart with a chinagraph pencil.
So there you go! Still... I'd rather have Notamplot!!!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bpilatus
I suspect that any delay is going to result from the time it takes to get the information made available for download by AIS. Ian is almost certainly going to be able to move a lot faster than they are.
Phil Bate, the manager of UK AIS is aware of Ian's post.
Russell and I recognise that the download is needed and the requirement is in a document that we left them on Tuesday.
If you have a look at http://www.telecall.uk.com/ais/More_NOTAM.htm
you will understand why the download is so important.
AIS have suggested a meeting with us and DAP because Phil does not want to move without DAP being behind the proposal. It's possible that other interested parties within CAA may get involved too.
Due to absence overseas by key people in AIS and DAP the earliest time that the meeting can take place is w/c Monday 4 November. Which gives Russell and I some time to polish up the proposal.
I can tell you that neither AIS nor DAP have raised any objections in principle to what we are suggesting. Getting it implemented is another matter because it is not a feature of the product that AIS have bought so it means going back to the vendor for development.
One of the best things that anyone reading this post can do is write to DAP and AIS/NATS stressing the importance you attach to the raw data download.
DAP is the regulator and AIS is part of NATS so the more united the voice that they hear, the more likely we are to get what we want.
DAP http://www.caa.co.uk/dap/default.asp
NATS contact points at http://www.nats.co.uk/operational/Op...il%2020021.pdf
(AIS are in section D6)
and keep an eye on www.telecall.uk.com/ais - I will be working to update it over the next few days.
Mike
I suspect that any delay is going to result from the time it takes to get the information made available for download by AIS. Ian is almost certainly going to be able to move a lot faster than they are.
Phil Bate, the manager of UK AIS is aware of Ian's post.
Russell and I recognise that the download is needed and the requirement is in a document that we left them on Tuesday.
If you have a look at http://www.telecall.uk.com/ais/More_NOTAM.htm
you will understand why the download is so important.
AIS have suggested a meeting with us and DAP because Phil does not want to move without DAP being behind the proposal. It's possible that other interested parties within CAA may get involved too.
Due to absence overseas by key people in AIS and DAP the earliest time that the meeting can take place is w/c Monday 4 November. Which gives Russell and I some time to polish up the proposal.
I can tell you that neither AIS nor DAP have raised any objections in principle to what we are suggesting. Getting it implemented is another matter because it is not a feature of the product that AIS have bought so it means going back to the vendor for development.
One of the best things that anyone reading this post can do is write to DAP and AIS/NATS stressing the importance you attach to the raw data download.
DAP is the regulator and AIS is part of NATS so the more united the voice that they hear, the more likely we are to get what we want.
DAP http://www.caa.co.uk/dap/default.asp
NATS contact points at http://www.nats.co.uk/operational/Op...il%2020021.pdf
(AIS are in section D6)
and keep an eye on www.telecall.uk.com/ais - I will be working to update it over the next few days.
Mike
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have spoken to Russell and hopefully if we can get a nice straightforward, web-published feed of NOTAM information that will allow me to easily rework NotamPlot into a v2 that will return us to the land of graphical NOTAM viewing!
Respect!
QDM
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bpilatus,
you can get more info about what's happening at:
click here
(BRL, that ain't an advert )
Edited to say:
Aye Carumba, in the 2 nanoseconds it took to write the above mrcross and QDM have posted, so now this post looks silly.
DOH!
you can get more info about what's happening at:
click here
(BRL, that ain't an advert
)Edited to say:
Aye Carumba, in the 2 nanoseconds it took to write the above mrcross and QDM have posted, so now this post looks silly.
DOH!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guess what - it's down again!
As from about 18:30 the site is down. Called the briefing staff and they weren't aware.
They checked with engineers who are "looking into it!"
NATS IT department are responsible for keeping it up.
Mike
At the height of the "Dirty Tricks" war between BA and Virgin, BA were trying to lift the London Eye into position and were having problems.
Virgin hired the Goodyear blimp to fly over the site displaying on its side the message:-
"BA can't keep it up!"
The same appears to apply to NATS IT department.
They got it up again (so to speak) a short while later and it was back in service at 18:50
They checked with engineers who are "looking into it!"
NATS IT department are responsible for keeping it up.
Mike
At the height of the "Dirty Tricks" war between BA and Virgin, BA were trying to lift the London Eye into position and were having problems.
Virgin hired the Goodyear blimp to fly over the site displaying on its side the message:-
"BA can't keep it up!"
The same appears to apply to NATS IT department.
They got it up again (so to speak) a short while later and it was back in service at 18:50
Last edited by Mike Cross; 17th Oct 2002 at 17:52.