Strange attitudes to female pilots.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Sensitivity at the controls?
I've had this comment from two instructors (who are not slow in picking up the faults either!). The first attributed it to the fact that I am a musician and thus want to treat the machine like an instrument, feeling what it wants to do and then helping it do so! (hmmmm!) Gender didn't come into it at all.
The second commented on this common attribute between women, saying that men tend to get more stressed about 'controlling' the plane in turbulence and refusing to acknowledge their subordination to the fluidity of the air. I found this quite an interesting observation for a fairly old fashioned guy to be making - you could interpret it as 'men are overcontrolling' or as 'women are more naturally passive'...
Perhaps we don't encounter much stigma in GA and private aviation because most people involved are at least a little bit unusual, and it takes more than gender to disquiet people, even if we are still the minority. Noteworthy though, that we are much more of a minority in airlines (3% for God's sake!!!! still, boardrooms have only 2% I heard) and the military than private flying. Where it is institutionalised, men rule.
The second commented on this common attribute between women, saying that men tend to get more stressed about 'controlling' the plane in turbulence and refusing to acknowledge their subordination to the fluidity of the air. I found this quite an interesting observation for a fairly old fashioned guy to be making - you could interpret it as 'men are overcontrolling' or as 'women are more naturally passive'...
Perhaps we don't encounter much stigma in GA and private aviation because most people involved are at least a little bit unusual, and it takes more than gender to disquiet people, even if we are still the minority. Noteworthy though, that we are much more of a minority in airlines (3% for God's sake!!!! still, boardrooms have only 2% I heard) and the military than private flying. Where it is institutionalised, men rule.
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I have seen reports on the results of studies which compares the abilities of women and men in flying, and there are some differences. But the conclusion in everything I've seen and read is whatever specific advantages we have as a result of gender, it is a pretty even at the end of the day - and it is always down to the abilities of the individual.
Odd attitudes to women? I've only had one comment levelled at me that I could call sexist, and the guy who made it "had his own issues". So I don't think it counts.
But Mr Bravo (not a pilot) almost always gets approached first when we go to an aviation shop or museum. When he gently points out that they failed to pick the pilot, I haven't had anyone continue to talk to him on the basis that that he must be joking. I think the approach is just an assumption based on statistical probability rather than sexism as such.
Odd attitudes to women? I've only had one comment levelled at me that I could call sexist, and the guy who made it "had his own issues". So I don't think it counts.
But Mr Bravo (not a pilot) almost always gets approached first when we go to an aviation shop or museum. When he gently points out that they failed to pick the pilot, I haven't had anyone continue to talk to him on the basis that that he must be joking. I think the approach is just an assumption based on statistical probability rather than sexism as such.
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I've never had a problem being a female pilot in this country, or not that I've noticed. I'm also an engineer, and have been since way before women engineers were acceptable. Had lots of problems in the beginning, but none now.
Had to have a bit of a giggle though when I flew once in Portugal. Now Portugese women just don't fly, so when I started hauling the aircraft out of the hangar I think every man for miles around turned up to watch. It didn't help my confidence that I'm a PA28 pilot, and the only aircraft available was a Cessna 152, which I had a whole hour of previous experience on. I did the best take off and most perfect landing I'd done in a long time!
Had to have a bit of a giggle though when I flew once in Portugal. Now Portugese women just don't fly, so when I started hauling the aircraft out of the hangar I think every man for miles around turned up to watch. It didn't help my confidence that I'm a PA28 pilot, and the only aircraft available was a Cessna 152, which I had a whole hour of previous experience on. I did the best take off and most perfect landing I'd done in a long time!
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Went with my younger daughter a few years ago to buy herself a new car. I was only there because I got a discount on new cars of that make.
But would the salesman talk to her - would he heck! He patronised and ignored her until she said "C'mon Dad, let's go where they'll sell ME a car."
We did, too.
Never seen anything like that in flying.
Maybe the statistics are skewed, but I seem to know a lot of female pilots.
But would the salesman talk to her - would he heck! He patronised and ignored her until she said "C'mon Dad, let's go where they'll sell ME a car."
We did, too.
Never seen anything like that in flying.
Maybe the statistics are skewed, but I seem to know a lot of female pilots.
Keef maybe you're just a tart 
I have only met 4 female pilots and one of them is Whirly (sorry 5, I met a DanDair HS 748 cap'n in Shetlands many moons ago).
PS I've had similar experiences with my eldest daughter
. Don't expect to have them with my youngest girl though
I have only met 4 female pilots and one of them is Whirly (sorry 5, I met a DanDair HS 748 cap'n in Shetlands many moons ago).PS I've had similar experiences with my eldest daughter
. Don't expect to have them with my youngest girl though
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Re Engineers - can we have some more lady engineers like the FLS one at LGW - she brightened up an otherwise frustrating morning. Not sexist, just grateful
p.s. My IR instructor was a lady, a Right Honourable no less. She carried a baseball bat next to her for when you got things wrong - I was scared. Hi Vicky !
p.s. My IR instructor was a lady, a Right Honourable no less. She carried a baseball bat next to her for when you got things wrong - I was scared. Hi Vicky !
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Penquina states that there are <3% women in the airlines, & I would guess that it is still only 5% to 10% in GA.
And, of course, women hate computers & the internet.
So, how come, there are so many females, on this forum?
Must be the warm welcome & support, that we get from all the lovely fellas
And, of course, women hate computers & the internet.
So, how come, there are so many females, on this forum?
Must be the warm welcome & support, that we get from all the lovely fellas
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Strange attitude to female pilots.
Have noticed what looks to me a look of amusement when I turn up, as I am well past my sell by date, and it's pretty obvious a much younger woman was expected,I have no problem with that, and have found everyone in aviation so friendly, even the young lads, would'nt have thought they would have had any time for an old biddy like me.
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LNS - true, I look like a tart in my Sunday dress (vicars and tarts party, anyone?)
I had a female instructor for part of my IMC rating, and for one of my IMC renewals. Very good she was, too.
I've met at least half a dozen "lady" pilots - including Aerbabe and Whirly - and treat them as I would treat anyone else. Wellllll. . . just a little tease, perhaps...
I had a female instructor for part of my IMC rating, and for one of my IMC renewals. Very good she was, too.
I've met at least half a dozen "lady" pilots - including Aerbabe and Whirly - and treat them as I would treat anyone else. Wellllll. . . just a little tease, perhaps...
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My husband (also a pilot) had his car insurance up for renewal and got a quote off the internet from a major insurance company. Part of the renewal quote required employment details for both of us, when asked for his job description he wrote pilot, the computer responded with "commercial pilot?", to which he clicked on "yes" and continued to my details. So when asked for my job description he again wrote pilot, again the computer asked "commercial pilot?" to which he clicked yes (don't you know whats coming?) and the computer responded....
ERROR INVALID CAREER...
Might have just been a glitch, funny none the less and just for the record I agree with whoever it was that said the reaction you get is not so much prejudice but misunderstanding.
ERROR INVALID CAREER...
Might have just been a glitch, funny none the less and just for the record I agree with whoever it was that said the reaction you get is not so much prejudice but misunderstanding.
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Keef, LNS and anyone else interested:
1. I have known Keef for over 30 years, and before I converted to atheism I helped several vicars to dress (only the ceremonial part!) and saw many vicar's (and several vicars') robes; I frankly do not believe there is any combination of Keef and vicar's dress which could result in him looking like a tart.
2. I have nothing to say on the subject of women piloting abilities per se (and Whirlybird seems to prefer men not to say anything on that topic anyway) but on a tangentially related aspect, an instructor observed to me years ago that when nubile women were present on a gliding field, many men tended to act differently - and not for the better. He opined that male bad flying and ground behaviour, and hence potential accidents, were more likely in mixed company, because of that effect, not through any fault of the women concerned. With some foreboding, I wonder what opinions and observations people have on that?
1. I have known Keef for over 30 years, and before I converted to atheism I helped several vicars to dress (only the ceremonial part!) and saw many vicar's (and several vicars') robes; I frankly do not believe there is any combination of Keef and vicar's dress which could result in him looking like a tart.
2. I have nothing to say on the subject of women piloting abilities per se (and Whirlybird seems to prefer men not to say anything on that topic anyway) but on a tangentially related aspect, an instructor observed to me years ago that when nubile women were present on a gliding field, many men tended to act differently - and not for the better. He opined that male bad flying and ground behaviour, and hence potential accidents, were more likely in mixed company, because of that effect, not through any fault of the women concerned. With some foreboding, I wonder what opinions and observations people have on that?
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Being the only woman pilot in my flying club I will say that I don't hang around the hangar as much as I used to. Just got tired of the continually raunchy topics being discussed. I was fortunate enough to have a male flying instructor that doesnt' have a prejucided bone in his body. Too bad the other members don't have as open a mind as he has. I thought an instrument rating would help matters a little but it hasn't made any difference.
I guess I'm used to the whole thing and it doesn't bother me too much any more. I fly more than they do and probably enjoy it twice as much!
I guess I'm used to the whole thing and it doesn't bother me too much any more. I fly more than they do and probably enjoy it twice as much!
Lady pilot on being approached by Morrocan refueller earlier this year. Fueller " Are you alone?" Lady pilot "Yes", Concerned fueller " Who is going to fly the plane?"
In some parts of the world time moves slowly!!!!!
In some parts of the world time moves slowly!!!!!
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Female pilots.
Some of the First Officers I have flown with have been female, and in nearly every case they could fly rings 'round the boys.
They have to be twice a good as the boys just to stay even in todays' competitive environment.
More power to 'em.
Some of the First Officers I have flown with have been female, and in nearly every case they could fly rings 'round the boys.
They have to be twice a good as the boys just to stay even in todays' competitive environment.
More power to 'em.
The Original Whirly
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ChrisN,
The reason I said I didn't want men to comment on women's flying abilities was because I'd seen several threads on similar subjects where post after post went somthing like this:
"The women pilots I've known have been as good as the men"
"Some have been even better"
"I'm not prejudiced; flying has nothing to do with gender"
"I think women make good pilots"
Etc etc etc, yawn yawn yawn.
Yes, the sky is blue, women can walk and talk, men can cook occasionally.... I didn't want to have to trawl through simplistic and obvious statements that don't need to be made. As originator of the thread, I wanted to have that option.
Do you get my point?
The reason I said I didn't want men to comment on women's flying abilities was because I'd seen several threads on similar subjects where post after post went somthing like this:
"The women pilots I've known have been as good as the men"
"Some have been even better"
"I'm not prejudiced; flying has nothing to do with gender"
"I think women make good pilots"
Etc etc etc, yawn yawn yawn.
Yes, the sky is blue, women can walk and talk, men can cook occasionally.... I didn't want to have to trawl through simplistic and obvious statements that don't need to be made. As originator of the thread, I wanted to have that option.
Do you get my point?
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With regard to chrisN's point (2), I usually fly with other PPL's from the same flying school. It shares the costs, we go on longer trips, & I get bored on my own
Anyhow, my shared trips are about half with women PPLs & the other half with men. So, from my limited experience, I find that I am perfectly happy, sharing the flying with either gender. There is no real difference, although I would only fly with someone who I trust, regardless of their sex.
I regularly fly a twin with a male PPL, usually plus another couple of male friends as passengers. And YES, when we land anywhere, people on the ground usually assume that ANY of the other 3 must be the pilot, but certainly not me!
Nearly all my training was with male intructors, & I never had a any problems with them.
The only instructor who really made me work hard, was for my IMC rating, where I was given a really hard time, made to fly to almost IR standards, & was not allowed to get away with any sloppy flying. My everlasting thanks to Lucy, as she really gave me the competance & confidance to fly on instruments
Anyhow, my shared trips are about half with women PPLs & the other half with men. So, from my limited experience, I find that I am perfectly happy, sharing the flying with either gender. There is no real difference, although I would only fly with someone who I trust, regardless of their sex.
I regularly fly a twin with a male PPL, usually plus another couple of male friends as passengers. And YES, when we land anywhere, people on the ground usually assume that ANY of the other 3 must be the pilot, but certainly not me!
Nearly all my training was with male intructors, & I never had a any problems with them.
The only instructor who really made me work hard, was for my IMC rating, where I was given a really hard time, made to fly to almost IR standards, & was not allowed to get away with any sloppy flying. My everlasting thanks to Lucy, as she really gave me the competance & confidance to fly on instruments