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2018 Light Aircraft Association AGM award vote

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2018 Light Aircraft Association AGM award vote

Old 3rd Oct 2018, 17:56
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Not being a member of the LAA (I'm not a UK resident), I watch from the outside. I watch in alarm at the thought that some members of the LAA somehow think there is a need to reconsider the issuance of the award which was revoked. The person making the motion writes:

there was no evidence that even if she had practised the subterfuge of which she was accused the reputation of the LAA had been damaged.
Well judging by the dis satisfaction raised by members posting here, the reputation of the LAA is up for question if the award is restored! What does the LAA lose if the members vote to not issue an award they earlier voter to rescind? The LAA will gain the reputation for standing up in what they believe in if the members vote to withhold the award!

I read the award was:

The citation was, "Award of the Bill Woodhams Trophy for a feat of navigation Tracey Curtis Taylor for her flight from Cape Town to Cairo in a Boeing Stearman a feat of navigation, aviation, tenacity and endurance."
Feat of navigation? Not really, when you have GPS and the latest databases in Ipads, available to both pilots, being supported by a chase plane, and with ground planning assistance! My colleague and I flew a Twin Otter Cairo to Johannesburg prior to the invention of GPS, using only charts and a magnetic compass, and that was not an unusual feat of navigation, so if a fully supported, multi pilot navigational exercise warrants issuance of an award for navigation, when other factors are dubious, I worry that the LAA is setting the bar a little low for issuance of an award! I think that not being able to navigate around a parked R44 should be reason enough to withdraw into the shadows with head held low, rather than return and make a fuss to have an award for navigation considered for reissuance!

And I will confirm that I'm not a troll, I've flown the route in question (as second pilot), flown many transcontinental trips as the only person in the plane, and always arrived where I intended to. And I have flown a Stearman. I have no personal grudge against Tracey, and indeed had not heard of her until reading the rather embarrassing Canadian newspaper article which revealed her trail of error and deception. I just don't like the thought of awards being issued to non deserving pilots! Tracey has earned right to call herself a pilot, and walk among we other pilots, but, for what I have read, has done nothing to distinguish herself to the level of being considered for an award issued by pilots! I think that Tracey should use the attention afforded her now to honour up, and truthfully answer some of the questions asked of her, to set the record straight. Following that, perhaps she'll just take a step back to be just a pilot, like the rest of us.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 18:19
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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The FBO who sold her and her camera ship the “contaminated” fuel has something to say about it:

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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 18:27
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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I have read the Motions on LAA site... I am still spitting feathers. I thought the LAA was a democratic Association and as such we get to choose how we wish to vote! If so why is Stewart Jackson telling us to vote in favour of the motions? They debacle was settled 2016 why is it being resurrected? Proxy votes are another issue I cant afford/ justify travelling to Turweston just to vote on an issue, I use my PROXY vote it should have the same clout as a personally delivered vote!
I am not normally angry but this really has got my blood boiling!!
John.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 19:03
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Right Hand Thread View Post





The FBO who sold her and her camera ship the “contaminated” fuel has something to say about it:



https://mobile.twitter.com/AviatorOr...50878925479936
Lucky escape for the camera plane crew then?
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 19:37
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Wow!

The TCT supporting statement is REALLY worth reading.
It is a shame that once again there will be no explanation from any other view point allowed.
Not everyone reads PPRuNe.

Did she not accept an award for it being a Solo flight in Australia?
I have never met TCT, and I am no troll, but any normal reasonable person can spot the inconsistencies.
Other than “I accidentally said ‘solo’ at Herne Bay”, does she really believe there are no inconsistencies ?

What will happen if the motion isn’t carried? Will the vitriolic campaign against the LAA continue?

I’ve already stated what the ONLY solution is, give her and Ewald an Award for their flight. It’s the only way to keep everyone happy. Why don’t the LAA just do that and close the matter. TCT has stated IT WAS NOT SOLO, she did not do all the nav, the award was erroneous, give her and Ewald the award they deserve, it was an amazing flight after all.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 20:02
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kghjfg View Post
Wow!

The TCT supporting statement is REALLY worth reading.
It is a shame that once again there will be no explanation from any other view point allowed.
Not everyone reads PPRuNe.

Did she not accept an award for it being a Solo flight in Australia?
I have never met TCT, and I am no troll, but any normal reasonable person can spot the inconsistencies.
Other than “I accidentally said ‘solo’ at Herne Bay”, does she really believe there are no inconsistencies ?

What will happen if the motion isn’t carried? Will the vitriolic campaign against the LAA continue?

I’ve already stated what the ONLY solution is, give her and Ewald an Award for their flight. It’s the only way to keep everyone happy. Why don’t the LAA just do that and close the matter. TCT has stated IT WAS NOT SOLO, she did not do all the nav, the award was erroneous, give her and Ewald the award they deserve, it was an amazing flight after all.
I'm not sure I could bring myself to call it 'amazing' when compared to people like Polly Vacher. Anyway, she lied about the flight and now, as the evidence from Mr Wiseman at Winslow shows, she appears to be trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes about 'fuel contamination'. The bluffing hasn't worked so now it's bluster. Quite frankly, her completely untrue statement that the Chairman of the LAA 'suggested' she raise the issue again is probably the lowest thing she has done. These are honorable chaps just interested in flying. They shouldn't have to waste their time dealing with someone demanding an award.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 21:09
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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From the LAA Forum, a request from the Chairman

Re: The Importance of Voting at OUR AGM .

by Brian Hope » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:22 pm

Paul, in an earlier post you seem to think there won't be a proxy vote, and I see somebody on PPRuNe is under the same impression. The Proxy form is available on the AGM page and will also be on the reverse of the address sheet that comes with the magazine in a day or two. Can you please enlighten the guy on PPRuNe that he certainly can vote by proxy and it counts just the same as somebody's vote who attends the AGM in person.
Thanks.
Proxy form here http://www.lightaircraftassociation....ing%20Form.pdf
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 21:17
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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I heard the “dog ate my homework” one, but blaming the weather! Really?

“ I did once inadvertently speak of flying 'solo' at a damp, grey Herne Bay in September 2014 when a flying display I was scheduled to give was cancelled at the last minute because of the weather, and I had to make a short impromptu speech to a crowd of disappointed people. As soon as I finished I realised I'd omitted to credit my colleagues, but it was too late to get the film edited.”
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 21:42
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Here, for those unable to look it up, is that statement that she put out, regarding the vote coming up soon.


Of particular interest, to me anyway, is the line "I am happy to explain more fully and answer any questions put in good faith by Members before or at the 2018 AGM."

That, as they say, is a belter, but it gets better, I have pasted in a few points, in Red, which I would hope that someone will ask Tracey, on the day, if she decides not to respond here.

LAA AGM 2018. MOTION 1 Supporting statement by Tracey Curtis-Taylor. Mem No 035363 I am very grateful to Stewart Jackson for proposing and to Tim Wheeler for seconding the motion before you. The 2016 AGM resolution was hugely distressing for me; I have struggled with the consequences for the past two years. I do hope that Members will now agree that wrong was done in their name and will take the opportunity to put it right for the sake of the Association's good name. It is tempting to write many pages, but I'll confine myself to a brief statement. I am happy to explain more fully and answer any questions put in good faith by Members before or at the 2018 AGM. Since 2005 1 have been proud to be a member of the LAA, with its declared objective of 'making dreams fly'. I was thrilled to receive the Woodhams Award in 2014, the first woman aviator to be so honoured; and correspondingly devastated two years later not only to be the first recipient to have the award rescinded but also to be publicly condemned for bringing the Association into disrepute. Manipulation, muddle-headedness and misogyny seem all to have been factors. No sooner had the Woodhams Award been made in 2014 than I became the object of sustained abuse through the PPRuNe social media forum, initiated by a sub-contractor on my 2014 African flight who had left the team early with a personal grievance. The story was spread that I had contrived to deceive the LAA Awards Committee, the aviation community and the broadcasting media by making fraudulent claims that I had flown my Stearman across Africa, following Lady Mary Heath's historic route, entirely on my own.

Such a claim would have been nonsense had I made it. You did make it, at least twice, on video.

The object of that and my later flights was to commemorate the historic achievements of the female pioneers, promoting not my achievements but theirs in order to inspire the coming generation of women aviators. It would have been impossible to undertake these filmed expeditions without extensive technical support, as I have repeatedly explained; various people Mostly it was Ewald, or is that not true? accompanied me in the Stearman for most of the legs of my flights.

I did once Twice inadvertently speak of flying 'solo' at a damp, grey Herne Bay in September 2014 when a flying display I was scheduled to give was cancelled at the last minute because of the weather, and I had to make a short impromptu speech to a crowd of disappointed people. As soon as I finished I realised I'd omitted to credit my colleagues, but it was too late to get the film edited. Can you show any evidence of trying since then?

Because it is all the evidence there is, All that has been made public so far anyone seeking to persuade you that I'm a liar will direct you to the YouTube clip of this one speech, as opposed to numerous occasions on which I make clear my gratitude to the crews that supported me. Having requested the information this year from the LAA, I now know that from early 2016 the Board received a succession of emails demanding my public disgrace. The sources were evidently the same as those of the ongoing PPRuNe campaign; some of them joined our Association. A long-standing member, who has since told me he got his information from PPRuNe, was eventually persuaded to front a hostile motion for the AGM; it was submitted to the Board on 19 September, only just in time to be considered for the agenda. That day the Royal Navy Royal Marines Charity received emails from the same sources, complaining that I should not be the guest speaker at a Navy fund-raising event, because I was about to be disgraced by a LAA motion that was to be presented at the AGM and was 'expected to pass easily'. I learned of this from the Marines Charity a few days later. I suspect that many poeple think that you should not be allowed to take part in such events, until you stop masquerading as a Commander, and use the title Lieutenant Commander, as has been bestowed upon you.

As I now know from the Minutes of the LAA Board, the draft motion included references to the company that sponsored my Africa flight that the Board was advised were libellous. However, the Chairman — not the Secretary — took it upon himself to rewrite it forthwith. This was permissible but not mandatory under the LAA Articles; I would question whether it was appropriate in respect of a motion that was an overt personal attack on a Member. Such a motion was hardly typical of our AGM, perhaps unique; but it was put on the agenda and sent out without accompanying explanation. I was away on a speaking tour of schools in China for three weeks before the AGM; but having become aware of the motion I wrote a statement, asking that it be circulated to members with the agenda; it wasn't. Hard copy was available only on the day of the meeting, by which time proxy voting on an unprecedented scale ensured the passage of the motion regardless of the overwhelming opposition of those who actually attended and heard the arguments. My understanding is that those present were not in fact able to hear the arguments, only your side of it.

It is evident from recent study of the redacted proxy voting forms — supplied at my request — that some members were puzzled by the motion to strip me of the Woodhams Award, but it seems likely that most assumed that it was one of a list of proposals endorsed by the Chairman and Board for which they would vote en bloc. An unusually large number of proxy ballots was returned — it is my understanding that at most AGMs there are more members present than there are proxies — including several on which the only vote cast was for the motion and a few on which the stamped date of receipt was earlier than the date on which they were officially circulated. Such oddities can doubtless be explained; but both at the AGM and within the Board unease and embarrassment were expressed both at the way in which a very personal motion had been passed, and the misogynistic, out-of-touch image of the LAA thereby projected. I don't think that the resignation of the Secretary shortly afterwards was coincidental. And while the LAA Board made no formal admission that anything was less than perfect, its discomfort with what had happened is apparent from changes made soon after the 2016 AGM to the rules on motions, so that in future six weeks' notice would be required. I will say no more. You will, I hope, agree with me that righting a wrong and putting this dismal affair behind us is in the Association's best interests; if you do not, so be it. Whether or not you choose to believe me, I do assure you that my Stearman flights were and are less about me personally than about celebrating the past achievements of female aviators and promoting the future of women in the skies. I trust that Members see this objective as being in accord with the high ideals of the Light Aircraft Association to which we all belong. You make much of being a member and about this being "Our" association. I wonder if you might enlighten everyone with details of how many LAA AGMs you have attended, and what other events you have participated in, to further the aims of the LAA?
So, for the benefit of Tracey, here are the three questions that the "baying mob" [sic] on PPRuNe have settled on as being the most pressing points for you to explain:


1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her African flight "solo". Please see the video clip published earlier in which she personally makes that claim, and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her, published several times earlier in this thread, standing in front of a huge picture depicting the route and claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings?

#3Questions


For my own interest, I would like to ask, who was on board the Stearman when it took off for Australia, and where was the first landing after that take off? You must remember the departure I am describing, the much celebrated party, of which a video is knocking around the internet, showing just you in the aircraft, leaving old blighty to fly to the colonies. If the ATC recording transcript should show 2 POB declared, would that be an error, or is there an explanation you want to share with us? At what point on that journey did Ewald get in to the Stearman?

I know that many others will want to take you up on your generous and exciting offer to answer any questions, so I won't press you here for details of why the FAA & NTSB forms about Winslow don't add up, when we look at your hours and Ewald's hours, or why your expensive lawyers have yet to force the fuel company at Winslow to stop contradicting your claim that the fuel was bad. Nor will I push the point about how an engine failure at 50 feet on a 6,000 feet runway should be easy to survive, for even a solo PPL student, never mind someone who has "as much experience of flying Stearmans as any one else in the world".

I'm not yet ready to be disappointed that you are unable to find it in your heart to apologise to the controller who got the blame for you not being able to iPad map read around restricted airspace. I can even ignore the frightening of the whales and the "having to fly 50 feet from a cliff" or whatever pish it was that you rambled on about, while pretending to be a professional pilot.

No, I'll settle for the three questions being answered, and maybe a hint as to when you might accept that the game is up.

I can honestly say, hand on heart, that if you were a bloke, not a hint of this would have changed. This is not about you being a woman with a crowd of misogynists giving you a hard time, it's about you being a little vague with the facts.

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 3rd Oct 2018 at 23:53. Reason: Remove contentious language
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 22:07
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kghjfg View Post
Wow!

The TCT supporting statement is REALLY worth reading.
It is a shame that once again there will be no explanation from any other view point allowed.
Not everyone reads PPRuNe.

Did she not accept an award for it being a Solo flight in Australia?
I have never met TCT, and I am no troll, but any normal reasonable person can spot the inconsistencies.
Other than “I accidentally said ‘solo’ at Herne Bay”, does she really believe there are no inconsistencies ?

What will happen if the motion isn’t carried? Will the vitriolic campaign against the LAA continue?

I’ve already stated what the ONLY solution is, give her and Ewald an Award for their flight. It’s the only way to keep everyone happy. Why don’t the LAA just do that and close the matter. TCT has stated IT WAS NOT SOLO, she did not do all the nav, the award was erroneous, give her and Ewald the award they deserve, it was an amazing flight after all.

With respect, giving an award to Ewald is most certainly not the ONLY solution. In fact it is not a solution at all.

We have seen that Ewald is just as guilty of maintaining the charade as she is.
Sam posted about the diversion approaching Baragwanath so as to avoid a throng of onlookers maybe spotting that the Stearman had two pilots in it. Sound familiar? Just like the departure from UK where TCT did leave solo (for the benefit of the cameras) but headed straight to France (no doubt with a support plane and Ewald inside it) flying with her. There upon landing the Stearman goes to 2 POB, anyone care to guess at who the other POB would have been? He is as complicit as she is and as such should not be shown any favours.

The only solution to make this go away is for TOTAL honesty from TCT and team and a withdrawal of the LAA motion.

She can start by listing all of the legs flown in all three flights and name the person sat up front on each leg.
Bring aircraft and pilot logbooks (hers and Ewalds) to the LAA where they can be verified as a true record of the flights by people who know what they should say.
She can bring along the copies of ALL correspondence that went out to the press prior to, and during the flights, especially the vast array of the "please don't use SOLO in your articles, as I am horrified that you are doing this" ones.
She can bring along the SD cards that were in the GoPro cameras on the aircraft at Winslow. She has said herself that the cameras were always running to get film footage.

Will any of the above happen? ...I am not holding my breath.

She has tried to dismiss the Herne Bay video as a slip of the tongue. I think that it is so ingrained in her psyche that she could not help herself. If she was genuinely horrified having that word used she would not have used it, and to say that it was a last minute speech could be excused if it was first time, but she has given very similar speeches at all points on her travels. She truly believes that she is special and I have never seen anyone so desperate for recognition, admiration, and reward. Quite sad really, and a bit like Chris Martyr, I am starting to feel sorry for her; it was all dying down but she just couldn't resist resurrecting it.


I saw this general message from Brian Hope on LAA Forum. Seems there has been confusion over proxy votes being counted. ALL proxy votes count just as if you are at the meeting.

Brian Hope wrote:Can you please enlighten the guy on PPRuNe that he certainly can vote by proxy and it counts just the same as somebody's vote who attends the AGM in person.
Thanks.


EDITED TO ADD
Apologies to Airpolice for bumping an EXCELLENT post above.

Last edited by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY; 3rd Oct 2018 at 22:11. Reason: timing
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 23:29
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry for double post but this struck a chord ...

"I did once inadvertently speak of flying 'solo' at a damp, grey Herne Bay in September 2014 when a flying display I was scheduled to give was cancelled at the last minute because of the weather, and I had to make a short impromptu speech to a crowd of disappointed people. As soon as I finished I realised I'd omitted to credit my colleagues, but it was too late to get the film edited. Because it is all the evidence there is, anyone seeking to persuade you that I'm a liar will direct you to the YouTube clip of this one speech, as opposed to numerous occasions on which I make clear my gratitude to the crews that supported me."

Explain this then please...direct copies of one of the responses I received where I queried directly with the press on what was said, by whom, and if there was any chance of a misunderstanding. It is NOT just the video that I have.

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Old 4th Oct 2018, 00:33
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever the outcome of the vote one thing that cannot be undone is the effect this all had on another pilot's planned solo flight. Anyone remember Amanda Harrison?

She was trying to raise funds for a solo flight, UK to Australia, when the media started to report TCT's 'solo' flight which effectively killed Amanda's flight off. After all, nobody was going to sponsor her when it had just been done by someone else.

So much for being all about helping women in aviation.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 07:16
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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One's breath is taken away by Ms Taylor's attempt to sweep the 'solo video' under the carpet. One could be generous and say that there may be circumstances where a throwaway line is taken out of context , however, the statements made in the video are deliberate, emphasized and repeated claims to an action that is held in the highest regard by any pilot - going solo. No pilot I know would make such a statements 'by mistake', whatever the weather!
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 07:45
  #94 (permalink)  
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"I did once inadvertently speak of flying 'solo' at a damp, grey Herne Bay"

Let's not forget the numerous Wikipedia pages that made the same error. While we're at it, there was the website author who implied that they did not understand what solo meant. Then there's the "solo" press releases from Boeing who know nothing about aviation, the numerous articles written by journalists who attended the down-route junkets, getting their copy first-hand and the infamous slides that accompanied the presentation. All of this took years to notice...….apparently.

What rotten luck. That's almost as unlucky as finding the only training aircraft in the world that cannot be flown from both cockpits.


My first solo certificate still hangs in a frame in the downstairs loo. It clearly states that the flight was conducted without the presence of an instructor.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 13:12
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Earlier in this thread there is a justification of Ms Curtis-Taylor’s actions that she herself wrote on the LAA forum and which was subsequently posted here. It contains the assertion, amongst other things, that:

“I am not a liar”.

For the last couple of years, Ms Curtis-Taylor has been asked Three Questions that go to the heart of that assertion. Many here will be familiar with them, as is Ms Curtis-Taylor (as I said elsewhere: I have had it confirmed by a senior and well respected member of the GA community who has spoken in her favour here, that he gave them to her at my request).

I will not repost them verbatim, but if what she claims is true,then:

1. Clearly her claim in the Hearne Bay video that the flight she is describing was solo must be true (Question 1);

2. As is the claim of a solo flight on the presentation slide posted repeatedly in the original thread (Question 2)

3. She has earned the right to wear RAF wings and can tell us the basis on which they were awarded and by whom. (Question 3).

These questions remain unanswered, and cast serious doubt on what is being claimed. She has yet to explain these three apparent contradictions of her assertion and I invite her to address them, either here or in person on the floor at the LAA AGM.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 16:00
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jonzarno View Post
Earlier in this thread there is a justification of Ms Curtis-Taylor’s actions that she herself wrote on the LAA forum and which was subsequently posted here. It contains the assertion, amongst other things, that:

“I am not a liar”.

For the last couple of years, Ms Curtis-Taylor has been asked Three Questions that go to the heart of that assertion. Many here will be familiar with them, as is Ms Curtis-Taylor (as I said elsewhere: I have had it confirmed by a senior and well respected member of the GA community who has spoken in her favour here, that he gave them to her at my request).

I will not repost them verbatim, but if what she claims is true,then:

1. Clearly her claim in the Hearne Bay video that the flight she is describing was solo must be true (Question 1);

2. As is the claim of a solo flight on the presentation slide posted repeatedly in the original thread (Question 2)

3. She has earned the right to wear RAF wings and can tell us the basis on which they were awarded and by whom. (Question 3).

These questions remain unanswered, and cast serious doubt on what is being claimed. She has yet to explain these three apparent contradictions of her assertion and I invite her to address them, either here or in person on the floor at the LAA AGM.
For me the word “alone” is more difficult to explain away because that one word is an unambiguous statement that there wasn’t an aircraft owner/commercial pilot/navigator/instructor/member of the support crew/passenger in the aircraft. Of course it is possible that she never noticed the inadvertent inclusion of the word when she prepared the slide or when she was standing in front of it and the audience had left before she could make a correction..................
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 18:01
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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To perhaps move toward the "avoidance of doubt" regarding the allegation of fuel contamination at Winslow, may I suggest you might like to follow the "Talk " section of her Wiki page for some considered opinions beyond the much altered main "Article" q.v:

"Is there any reason the NTSB did not simply say "it was avgas"? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 3 October 2018 (UTC)"

"Probably because the more technical term as used in the US is 100 low lead or, '100 l-l'. Whatever, it's the most common type of fuel used in aircraft. The report goes on to say that the gascolator and bowl were free of debris. That is pretty much saying 'there was no fuel contamination in that aircraft.' Had there been the slightest suspicion on the day, all aircraft that had used the same pump would have been warned.Nothing of that order took place. The main article is incorrect.80.12.59.81 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:49, 4 October 2018 "

Last edited by Haraka; 4th Oct 2018 at 18:12.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 20:27
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Seems like we're far from the LAA's meeting. Wasn't there already a thread about this person and her claim(s) to fame?
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 21:05
  #99 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the review of the history of the concerns relating to an AGM topic posters. Let's focus on the meeting itself, matters relating to the expected topics of discussion there, and LAA member's feelings about the topics on the agenda. I know it's a fine line... do your best!
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 21:51
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers View Post
Seems like we're far from the LAA's meeting. Wasn't there already a thread about this person and her claim(s) to fame?
I was just wondering Jan. Will you be attending the meeting and voting? If not will you be voting by proxie?
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