Aerobatic Training South East
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Aerobatic Training South East
Hi All,
I'm interested to find out opinions of those who do aeros for fun or even for competition flying as to which may be the best option for me:
Currently I am halfway through an AOPA Basic Aerobatics course at Redhill. My instructor is fantastic, I've been with them from the start and like the way they teach. The aircraft is C152 Aerobat, and whilst it is underpowered for aeros, I am familiar with the type and as far as I understand it should help teach me energy management much better than a more powerful machine. So far so good. However, for every hour I'm in the air (Circa £215 inc. Landing fee) I can only log around 30mins aero time, and on a few occasions, 20mins IMC training time due to getting out of gatwick airspace. From rough calcs this will end up at around £3200 for an aeros rating...
On the other hand, I had a go in a chipmunk at the real flying company at shoreham, they gave a very rough figure of around 15 hours to do:
AOPA Basic Aerobatics Course
Tailwheel Conversion
Type conversion on a chippy.
As a very rough figure, it was £230ph inc landing fee which amounts to £3450 for all of the above.
I am very aware that cheaper is not better in the flying world, but whilst experience is the priority, value for money comes a close second.
My worry is that if I switch the chipmunk, I will lose the experience I have in the 152 as I will have to relearn the manouvers in a much more agile aircraft.
Plus, Last time i flew the Chipmunk, the controls didn't come naturally, as I have most of my hours in 152's, so I'm worried it'll take me a long time to feel comfortable in the aircraft.
Ultimatley i will be flying for fun, but i wouldnt exclude competition flying in the future... any advice on getting into that would also be good!
Cheers,
I'm interested to find out opinions of those who do aeros for fun or even for competition flying as to which may be the best option for me:
Currently I am halfway through an AOPA Basic Aerobatics course at Redhill. My instructor is fantastic, I've been with them from the start and like the way they teach. The aircraft is C152 Aerobat, and whilst it is underpowered for aeros, I am familiar with the type and as far as I understand it should help teach me energy management much better than a more powerful machine. So far so good. However, for every hour I'm in the air (Circa £215 inc. Landing fee) I can only log around 30mins aero time, and on a few occasions, 20mins IMC training time due to getting out of gatwick airspace. From rough calcs this will end up at around £3200 for an aeros rating...
On the other hand, I had a go in a chipmunk at the real flying company at shoreham, they gave a very rough figure of around 15 hours to do:
AOPA Basic Aerobatics Course
Tailwheel Conversion
Type conversion on a chippy.
As a very rough figure, it was £230ph inc landing fee which amounts to £3450 for all of the above.
I am very aware that cheaper is not better in the flying world, but whilst experience is the priority, value for money comes a close second.
My worry is that if I switch the chipmunk, I will lose the experience I have in the 152 as I will have to relearn the manouvers in a much more agile aircraft.
Plus, Last time i flew the Chipmunk, the controls didn't come naturally, as I have most of my hours in 152's, so I'm worried it'll take me a long time to feel comfortable in the aircraft.
Ultimatley i will be flying for fun, but i wouldnt exclude competition flying in the future... any advice on getting into that would also be good!
Cheers,
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Aerobatic Training South East
You'll have a lot more fun flying the Chippie, and the tail wheel experience could be really valuable in the future. Flying a stick rather than a yoke is also something you need to get used to if continuing with aeros in the future. My opinion...whatever, have fun!
My worry is that if I switch the chipmunk, I will lose the experience I have in the 152 as I will have to relearn the manouvers in a much more agile aircraft
Last time i flew the Chipmunk, the controls didn't come naturally, as I have most of my hours in 152's, so I'm worried it'll take me a long time to feel comfortable in the aircraft.
Pay for the Chippy and become a better pilot!
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Hmm where to start!
I flew an aerobat many years ago and decided if that was the best plane I could afford I'd give up
Forget this stuff people tell you about learning energy management in an under powered under performing plane, you need it with a 300 hp extra as well.
Also you are paying A lot. For £250 you can hire an exra 200.... And after 40 mins you will have had enough. It don't take long to get to 3000 ft either
If I were you I'd phone the tiger club at pent farm which near Folkstone. They have a cap 10c which is a lovely tail tragger. 180 hp, fixed pitch, easy to fly, inverterted fuel/oil rolls at about 180 deg per second. you can do inverted figurs also no air space to worry about and £235 per tacho hour. It will take you far further than the aerobat ever could
They have people who know how to do aeros as well, you can do the dick Bentley comps and they will no doubt take on board the hours you have already.
Don't mean to be rude but £215 per hour for a heap of junk is a waste of your time and money and really won't teach you that much.
Phone the tiger club and look on their webiste. Good Luck. (I am not currently a member fyg but had many happy years there and about 60 hrs in the cap)
I flew an aerobat many years ago and decided if that was the best plane I could afford I'd give up
Forget this stuff people tell you about learning energy management in an under powered under performing plane, you need it with a 300 hp extra as well.
Also you are paying A lot. For £250 you can hire an exra 200.... And after 40 mins you will have had enough. It don't take long to get to 3000 ft either
If I were you I'd phone the tiger club at pent farm which near Folkstone. They have a cap 10c which is a lovely tail tragger. 180 hp, fixed pitch, easy to fly, inverterted fuel/oil rolls at about 180 deg per second. you can do inverted figurs also no air space to worry about and £235 per tacho hour. It will take you far further than the aerobat ever could
They have people who know how to do aeros as well, you can do the dick Bentley comps and they will no doubt take on board the hours you have already.
Don't mean to be rude but £215 per hour for a heap of junk is a waste of your time and money and really won't teach you that much.
Phone the tiger club and look on their webiste. Good Luck. (I am not currently a member fyg but had many happy years there and about 60 hrs in the cap)
Last edited by Camargue; 19th Jul 2015 at 21:47.
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DoItForTheThrill
You've already been given good advice by others.
If you are serious about aerobatics then forget about the 152. It doesn't even have the saving grace of being economical if you are paying £230 per hr (not cheap) and then getting only ½ an hour aeros for each hour paid.
If all your flying has been with a yoke then it's understandable that the Chipmunk felt strange but that would change very quickly. As Dan says, it's one of the best harmonised light aircraft ever built.
For aerobatics purposes you'll have to switch from yoke to stick sooner or later - the sooner the better.
I agree with Camargue's suggestion. I'd go to the Tiger Club which now flies from Pent Farm, Postling, near Hythe. An easy 1-1¼ hour drive from Crawley.
It's a well-established sport flying club, founded in the 1950s. I used to be a member when it was at Redhill.
The Tiger Club is owned by its members - no additional charge for dual.
You'll be surrounded by like-minded people from whom you'll learn about aeros even when you aren't flying, and be able to enter club competitions as you progress.
You've already been given good advice by others.
If you are serious about aerobatics then forget about the 152. It doesn't even have the saving grace of being economical if you are paying £230 per hr (not cheap) and then getting only ½ an hour aeros for each hour paid.
If all your flying has been with a yoke then it's understandable that the Chipmunk felt strange but that would change very quickly. As Dan says, it's one of the best harmonised light aircraft ever built.
For aerobatics purposes you'll have to switch from yoke to stick sooner or later - the sooner the better.
I agree with Camargue's suggestion. I'd go to the Tiger Club which now flies from Pent Farm, Postling, near Hythe. An easy 1-1¼ hour drive from Crawley.
It's a well-established sport flying club, founded in the 1950s. I used to be a member when it was at Redhill.
The Tiger Club is owned by its members - no additional charge for dual.
You'll be surrounded by like-minded people from whom you'll learn about aeros even when you aren't flying, and be able to enter club competitions as you progress.
I always thought of the Cessna 'Aerobat' as an aeronautical oxymoron - the Chipmunk is a much better aerobatic training aeroplane.
Once you've obtained the AOPA Aerobatic Certificate, make sure that you apply to the CAA for the Part-FCL Aerobatic Rating to be included in your licence.
In addition to the Basic Aerobatic syllabus, other AOPA/BAeA aerobatics courses are available - see: Aerobatics Course
Once you've obtained the AOPA Aerobatic Certificate, make sure that you apply to the CAA for the Part-FCL Aerobatic Rating to be included in your licence.
In addition to the Basic Aerobatic syllabus, other AOPA/BAeA aerobatics courses are available - see: Aerobatics Course
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£215 per hour for a 152 aerobat?
Aeros/IMC or not they've seen you coming mate.
Cranfield Flying school will do you an hours aeroes in a 152A for £160 all in I believe, and I thought that was overpriced! - Might be a bit far for you though.
I did my EASA aerobatic rating in a 152 aerobat, so it is fine for the basics & getting your stomach a bit more adjusted to things. I've since moved onto the Extra 300 and it was almost like learning how to fly again. So I don't think there is that much benefit in learning aerobatics in a low powered aircraft. You can still learn energy management in something powerful.
The extra has little to no adverse yaw, so your feet might benefit a bit more learning moves in a Zlin or a chippy, but the extra is still tailwheel so requires good feet anyway. The joy of getting competent in a high performance taildragger cannot be matched. I feel a huge sense of acheivement being able to fly an Extra 300 on my own as it is a handful.
Also another benefit of going up in an Extra or high end pitts is the bang for buck factor. You get so much more done in .5 than an hour. - Despite it being costly.
Good luck
Ollie
Aeros/IMC or not they've seen you coming mate.
Cranfield Flying school will do you an hours aeroes in a 152A for £160 all in I believe, and I thought that was overpriced! - Might be a bit far for you though.
I did my EASA aerobatic rating in a 152 aerobat, so it is fine for the basics & getting your stomach a bit more adjusted to things. I've since moved onto the Extra 300 and it was almost like learning how to fly again. So I don't think there is that much benefit in learning aerobatics in a low powered aircraft. You can still learn energy management in something powerful.
The extra has little to no adverse yaw, so your feet might benefit a bit more learning moves in a Zlin or a chippy, but the extra is still tailwheel so requires good feet anyway. The joy of getting competent in a high performance taildragger cannot be matched. I feel a huge sense of acheivement being able to fly an Extra 300 on my own as it is a handful.
Also another benefit of going up in an Extra or high end pitts is the bang for buck factor. You get so much more done in .5 than an hour. - Despite it being costly.
Good luck
Ollie
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Aerobatic Training South East
Hi All,
Thank you for the replies, looks like a change is needed pronto!
For those that have suggested the Tiger Club, it sounds like a brilliant place for gaining experience from those who are in the current aeros circuit, I'm ashamed to say I've heard of them but never followed it up! Will give them a call soon to understand whats doable. This sounds better option than the chippy at shoreham as they are doing aeros for the love of aeros.
I think you are all correct about learning the Chippy though, It was 30 mins in my first taildragger so I expect it'll take time, it just felt a bit odd. Totally agree that it was a lovely aircraft to fly, just a bit of a handful for someone who's used to a yoke/very docile 152...
Camargue, Can I ask where the Extra 200 is based/who the company is?
Ampage, I would like to know a bit more of where/what you flew to get to where you are now as we started on the same aircraft?
Dobbin1, I'll PM you in a sec...
Where I'm going with this is that age old thing of, I just love to fly. Ive considered doing it as a profession, but after working for a large aviation training company, I realised that most of the guys from several different carriers didn't enjoy flying anymore. It was just a job. And that for me was really sad. So, I fly as a hobby, and Im really happy with that. To add aeros to the mix makes it all the more exciting. If it leads to doing displays, even just for fun, I will be a very happy guy.
Thank you for the replies, looks like a change is needed pronto!
For those that have suggested the Tiger Club, it sounds like a brilliant place for gaining experience from those who are in the current aeros circuit, I'm ashamed to say I've heard of them but never followed it up! Will give them a call soon to understand whats doable. This sounds better option than the chippy at shoreham as they are doing aeros for the love of aeros.
I think you are all correct about learning the Chippy though, It was 30 mins in my first taildragger so I expect it'll take time, it just felt a bit odd. Totally agree that it was a lovely aircraft to fly, just a bit of a handful for someone who's used to a yoke/very docile 152...
Camargue, Can I ask where the Extra 200 is based/who the company is?
Ampage, I would like to know a bit more of where/what you flew to get to where you are now as we started on the same aircraft?
Dobbin1, I'll PM you in a sec...
Where I'm going with this is that age old thing of, I just love to fly. Ive considered doing it as a profession, but after working for a large aviation training company, I realised that most of the guys from several different carriers didn't enjoy flying anymore. It was just a job. And that for me was really sad. So, I fly as a hobby, and Im really happy with that. To add aeros to the mix makes it all the more exciting. If it leads to doing displays, even just for fun, I will be a very happy guy.
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Of the 3 extra 200s I can think of 1 is at Cambridge aero club, 1 is at Bourne (Adrian Willis), which is also near Cambridge and the other is Tom Casells and he is even further north somewhere so none will be a of much use to you.
Wont take you long to get used to the cap, it doesn't sit nearly as nose high as a chippy so easy on the ground and to land. it will just be a lot more responsive than a 152 and you'll need far less stick pressure to do anything. Tiger club are a relaxed bunch, you don't pay extra for instructors so no financial penalty for taking your time and flying with an instructor as often as you want, even after aopa and once you've done the hours you can probably enter dick bently in the beginners category.
having said that, if I had the time instead of loads of kids I'd be after that share in the 300L. (works out cheaper than renting the 200!)
Wont take you long to get used to the cap, it doesn't sit nearly as nose high as a chippy so easy on the ground and to land. it will just be a lot more responsive than a 152 and you'll need far less stick pressure to do anything. Tiger club are a relaxed bunch, you don't pay extra for instructors so no financial penalty for taking your time and flying with an instructor as often as you want, even after aopa and once you've done the hours you can probably enter dick bently in the beginners category.
having said that, if I had the time instead of loads of kids I'd be after that share in the 300L. (works out cheaper than renting the 200!)
