Throw in the towel?
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There may be a problem with asking for a new Instructor... The Flying School may not have one.
Or a second instructor may be worse. They are all different, some stricter, some unfortunately too lenient, and some are just not on the same page as the student.
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Or a second instructor may be worse. They are all different, some stricter, some unfortunately too lenient, and some are just not on the same page as the student.
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Pat
I can remember many many moons ago when I was learning having one instructor who was very arrogant and self opinionated almost to the point of making lessons a self ego trip.
I flew badly with him as my confidence was not there. He interfered to the point that I felt like a zombie flying by numbers to his command and inputs rather than naturally.
His commands were to stamp his own authority but not just that to demonstrate his superiority.
at first I took it then I started challenging him which meant the sorties became a battle of wills and bad atmosphere.
i changed instructors to a guy who was almost like flying with a friend.I felt i was flying the aircraft not him and he only intervened or added comments if need be which was rare and done in a way which was diplomatic and constructive.
the difference was immense and his comments were that I was way above average so ditch the guy and find someone you blend with rather than conflict with.
Then ditch the school until you find an instructor who is right for you! Its your money and expensive at that and will end up far more expensive if you are with someone who is not getting the best from you !!! You call the shots at who you give your hard earned cash too.
Pace
I can remember many many moons ago when I was learning having one instructor who was very arrogant and self opinionated almost to the point of making lessons a self ego trip.
I flew badly with him as my confidence was not there. He interfered to the point that I felt like a zombie flying by numbers to his command and inputs rather than naturally.
His commands were to stamp his own authority but not just that to demonstrate his superiority.
at first I took it then I started challenging him which meant the sorties became a battle of wills and bad atmosphere.
i changed instructors to a guy who was almost like flying with a friend.I felt i was flying the aircraft not him and he only intervened or added comments if need be which was rare and done in a way which was diplomatic and constructive.
the difference was immense and his comments were that I was way above average so ditch the guy and find someone you blend with rather than conflict with.
There may be a problem with asking for a new Instructor... The Flying School may not have one.
Or a second instructor may be worse. They are all different, some stricter, some unfortunately too lenient, and some are just not on the same page as the student.
Or a second instructor may be worse. They are all different, some stricter, some unfortunately too lenient, and some are just not on the same page as the student.
Pace
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What maths are you having to do?
Inflight maths is part of the syllabus, but usually you do that when approximately ready for x-country, i.e. 1/60 rules for interception (keep in mind, we talk partFCL, so extensive CVFR is part of the training), ETA and ETE calculation, xwind, TOD, glidepath, fuel consumed etc etc ... once you fly the plane, you have capacity for the simple pilots calculations, but not before.
Inflight maths is part of the syllabus, but usually you do that when approximately ready for x-country, i.e. 1/60 rules for interception (keep in mind, we talk partFCL, so extensive CVFR is part of the training), ETA and ETE calculation, xwind, TOD, glidepath, fuel consumed etc etc ... once you fly the plane, you have capacity for the simple pilots calculations, but not before.
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As other have said, get a new instructor. Its not cheap to learn to fly and it should be fun, or as fun as it can be when you're being taught something as complex as this.
As for in-flight maths, you should be being taught to handle the aeroplane before being expected to do calculations such as fuel required to reach a diversion.
I got to my test in minimum time and I'm sure my time with a flight simulator was key to this. I didn't use the simulator to learn to handle the plane (they're not much use for this), I used it to expand my capacity and learn my checks and practice my radio calls. The idea was to simulate the mental loading of flying the plane and keeping the needles pointing in the right direction (alt,ASI,compass) whilst practicing making the right call at the right time, or doing the mental calculations for a diversion. This practice meant that in the real thing, my brain was having to adjust to doing a familiar procedure in a noisy box, rather than translating something that I had only done in the classroom.
Now I'm a seasoned skygod
I have pretty awful mental arithmetic but I've got very good at guestimating my way around the sky. I only fly VFR and always plan any cross-countries to leave me with and hour's fuel at my destination, but beyond that I'm very lazy. This doesn't mean I don't know where I am, but it does mean that when London Information asks me for an ETA to the FIR Boundary when I'm somewhere near Beachy Head, my estimates on the fly are very inaccurate. The potential for big cockups is when flying over water and when crossing the Channel I'm very anal about getting all the maths right before taking off.
As for in-flight maths, you should be being taught to handle the aeroplane before being expected to do calculations such as fuel required to reach a diversion.
I got to my test in minimum time and I'm sure my time with a flight simulator was key to this. I didn't use the simulator to learn to handle the plane (they're not much use for this), I used it to expand my capacity and learn my checks and practice my radio calls. The idea was to simulate the mental loading of flying the plane and keeping the needles pointing in the right direction (alt,ASI,compass) whilst practicing making the right call at the right time, or doing the mental calculations for a diversion. This practice meant that in the real thing, my brain was having to adjust to doing a familiar procedure in a noisy box, rather than translating something that I had only done in the classroom.
Now I'm a seasoned skygod
I have pretty awful mental arithmetic but I've got very good at guestimating my way around the sky. I only fly VFR and always plan any cross-countries to leave me with and hour's fuel at my destination, but beyond that I'm very lazy. This doesn't mean I don't know where I am, but it does mean that when London Information asks me for an ETA to the FIR Boundary when I'm somewhere near Beachy Head, my estimates on the fly are very inaccurate. The potential for big cockups is when flying over water and when crossing the Channel I'm very anal about getting all the maths right before taking off.
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don't give up Pat, some of us take a little longer to grasp these things. You might want to remind him that you're paying his wages and if it takes a little longer to learn then he's only ever going to be on the make
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Regarding the walk around, take your time. I'm an almost there PPL but walk arounds have thrown up things which I have raised which were not previously spotted. Loose shimmy dampener, propeller ding, landing / nav lights inop, window strut thing broken, door seal loose, oil low etc.
Do it properly as it shows you know what you are up to and at the end of the day, when you do eventually solo, you want to know that the aircraft is sound as there's no-one in the rhs to sort it!.
Do it properly as it shows you know what you are up to and at the end of the day, when you do eventually solo, you want to know that the aircraft is sound as there's no-one in the rhs to sort it!.
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Enjoy it !
Pat,
First of all you have to enjoy what you are doing, it's not compulsory to learn to fly, it's not cheap and it's your hard earned cash so make sure you enjoy it.
From my own experience, I've been flying all kinds of aircraft since I was very young, Hangliders as a kid on the hills in the Yorkshire Dales, Microlights, Pitts Specials RV's etc and I can tell you that a thorough walk around and check is the most important thing I do to this day and something which I learnt very early on in my flying career. I once saw a very very experienced Hanglider Pilot pick up his glider and set off running over the edge of a hill only to find out very quickly that he'd forgotten to "clip in" - he was very very lucky, the hill was shallow and he managed to run it off, but had he been on a ramp take-off on a mountain or cliff edge, he wouldn't be here now - that was pure complacency on his part!
Pilots do become complacent, at all levels and it's easy and quick to kick a tyre or two to satisfy yourself, but you owe it to yourself and of course your passengers because you have a duty of care to them so keep up to your high level of pre-flight checks, no matter how long it takes because trust me, one day it might just save your life.
Maths was never my strongest subject, in fact, I'm convinced I'm mathematically dyslexic, mmm! and I too remember the panic when asked to do some number juggling but somehow I managed to get through it.
It's never been an issue since my learning days because I can take my own time and I'm not under too much pressure, and there's always a whole bundle of IT to help me if I need it!
Sack the instructor! I once did! I had an instructor who in my view was completely mental !; Swearing, banging the top of the panel, sighing every other minute, in fact just about every bad manner you could imagine. I was about 9 or 10 hours at the time, did two with this instructor, got out of the plane and sacked him on the spot -it was a great feeling to see his mouth drop! There's no excuse for foul language or any other form of discouragement for that matter when teaching.
On a good point, I have flown with some fantastic instructors, people who really make you feel that you are doing a great job when you are and help you when you're not, and in turn you improve because most of it is about confidence, and that's what you're lacking, so move him on and you will move up quicker than you could imagine.
Good luck and keep going, it's worth it.
Martin
First of all you have to enjoy what you are doing, it's not compulsory to learn to fly, it's not cheap and it's your hard earned cash so make sure you enjoy it.
From my own experience, I've been flying all kinds of aircraft since I was very young, Hangliders as a kid on the hills in the Yorkshire Dales, Microlights, Pitts Specials RV's etc and I can tell you that a thorough walk around and check is the most important thing I do to this day and something which I learnt very early on in my flying career. I once saw a very very experienced Hanglider Pilot pick up his glider and set off running over the edge of a hill only to find out very quickly that he'd forgotten to "clip in" - he was very very lucky, the hill was shallow and he managed to run it off, but had he been on a ramp take-off on a mountain or cliff edge, he wouldn't be here now - that was pure complacency on his part!
Pilots do become complacent, at all levels and it's easy and quick to kick a tyre or two to satisfy yourself, but you owe it to yourself and of course your passengers because you have a duty of care to them so keep up to your high level of pre-flight checks, no matter how long it takes because trust me, one day it might just save your life.
Maths was never my strongest subject, in fact, I'm convinced I'm mathematically dyslexic, mmm! and I too remember the panic when asked to do some number juggling but somehow I managed to get through it.
It's never been an issue since my learning days because I can take my own time and I'm not under too much pressure, and there's always a whole bundle of IT to help me if I need it!
Sack the instructor! I once did! I had an instructor who in my view was completely mental !; Swearing, banging the top of the panel, sighing every other minute, in fact just about every bad manner you could imagine. I was about 9 or 10 hours at the time, did two with this instructor, got out of the plane and sacked him on the spot -it was a great feeling to see his mouth drop! There's no excuse for foul language or any other form of discouragement for that matter when teaching.
On a good point, I have flown with some fantastic instructors, people who really make you feel that you are doing a great job when you are and help you when you're not, and in turn you improve because most of it is about confidence, and that's what you're lacking, so move him on and you will move up quicker than you could imagine.
Good luck and keep going, it's worth it.
Martin
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Even further - never, ever, stop doing a thorough walkaround. That bloody beast with wings will try to kill you one day and you better have a look at it 
...
Seriously, you will find things your whole flying career long upon inspection. Last week my hangar neighbor was leaving when I had a look around and saw a screw lying on the ground, where his plane used to be. A quick look revealed - a prop screw ... took the hand radio and was lucky to reach him while still taxiing = he had lost two screws already.
...Seriously, you will find things your whole flying career long upon inspection. Last week my hangar neighbor was leaving when I had a look around and saw a screw lying on the ground, where his plane used to be. A quick look revealed - a prop screw ... took the hand radio and was lucky to reach him while still taxiing = he had lost two screws already.
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Inflight maths is part of the syllabus, but usually you do that when approximately ready for x-country, i.e. 1/60 rules for interception (keep in mind, we talk partFCL, so extensive CVFR is part of the training), ETA and ETE calculation, xwind, TOD, glidepath, fuel consumed etc etc ... once you fly the plane, you have capacity for the simple pilots calculations, but not before.
No, seriously Pat, what maths are you being asked to do?
Don't give up - go somewhere else , you are learning to fly not do maths .
Yes there is some maths element in getting your PPL but a bit of dead reckoning , simple map reading , visual location awareness and you'll crack it.
I don't remember getting much to do with maths in the air with my instructors , may be a few headings changes , but if I wasn't happy with anything or the way it was going I made it clear.
If you walk away from the school it can look bad on them , so they are expected to get the tuition across , if you don't like the attitude of the instructor just take your business somewhere else.
I tried another flying school when trying to decide on best flying school for my training , took an instant dislike to the instructor on the first lesson , bad attitude , anyway they didn't get anymore money or business off me.
Very happy with my final choice of school and the instructors were brilliant.
Yes there is some maths element in getting your PPL but a bit of dead reckoning , simple map reading , visual location awareness and you'll crack it.
I don't remember getting much to do with maths in the air with my instructors , may be a few headings changes , but if I wasn't happy with anything or the way it was going I made it clear.
If you walk away from the school it can look bad on them , so they are expected to get the tuition across , if you don't like the attitude of the instructor just take your business somewhere else.
I tried another flying school when trying to decide on best flying school for my training , took an instant dislike to the instructor on the first lesson , bad attitude , anyway they didn't get anymore money or business off me.
Very happy with my final choice of school and the instructors were brilliant.
Everyone above is right.
You are the customer / consumer / the guy paying the instructor.
Be constructively assertive about the situation - and you should be enjoying every bit of your flying.
If necessary - change flight school or flying club. Get your log-book signed off up to date.
Walk round preflight inspections are often lifesavers. DO NOT BE RUSHED.
Your instructor may have an eye on the overall day's schedule - the following lesson.
Did they say "Don't pay in advance"?
You are the customer / consumer / the guy paying the instructor.
Be constructively assertive about the situation - and you should be enjoying every bit of your flying.
If necessary - change flight school or flying club. Get your log-book signed off up to date.
Walk round preflight inspections are often lifesavers. DO NOT BE RUSHED.
Your instructor may have an eye on the overall day's schedule - the following lesson.
Did they say "Don't pay in advance"?
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When I did my PPL back in the dark ages (OK, 1970s), I had many different instructors - it just depended who was free as I wanted to do it as quickly as possible and couldn't afford to wait for a favorite guy to have a free slot (I am a firm believer that doing it quickly - about 7 months in my case - prevents that 'two steps forward one and half steps back' that happens when gaps between lessons are long).
I think it was an excellent system as one could discount the odd 'not on my page' guy's methods while still learning from him. It taught me two valuable truths about flying:
1) There is often more than one way to do things.
2) You have to be self-reliant.
The latter point refers to the need, when having a mix of instructors, to manage one's own progress through the syllabus and not rely on being spoon fed and led by the hand. It was not uncommon for an instructor to jump into the RH seat with a "right, where are you up to? What do you need to do today?".
Of course the CFI would be keeping a '35,000 foot view' of one's progress and would be one of the regulars one flew with, and all lessons were documented to ensure the syllabus was covered with no gaps.
Worked very well for me. Solo in 10.5 hours, PPL in a tad over the minimum (both of which I put down to some previous gliding experience, but mostly to taking lessons with minimum gaps between).
I think it was an excellent system as one could discount the odd 'not on my page' guy's methods while still learning from him. It taught me two valuable truths about flying:
1) There is often more than one way to do things.
2) You have to be self-reliant.
The latter point refers to the need, when having a mix of instructors, to manage one's own progress through the syllabus and not rely on being spoon fed and led by the hand. It was not uncommon for an instructor to jump into the RH seat with a "right, where are you up to? What do you need to do today?".
Of course the CFI would be keeping a '35,000 foot view' of one's progress and would be one of the regulars one flew with, and all lessons were documented to ensure the syllabus was covered with no gaps.
Worked very well for me. Solo in 10.5 hours, PPL in a tad over the minimum (both of which I put down to some previous gliding experience, but mostly to taking lessons with minimum gaps between).
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I don't remember getting much to do with maths in the air with my instructors
"OK Pat you say we have 40 Litres of fuel on board. Is that total or usable?
This aircraft uses approximately 25 litres per hour. For today's exercise we will be flying for approximately one hour. As you know we like to land with a least 45 minutes worth of fuel remaining. Can we go, or do we need to go to the Pumps first?"
The above is necessary, but it doesn't have to be done by mental arithmetic - just create a crib card.
Of course, in the air (eg during Cruise Checks) you should, by now, be able to mentally calculate roughly how much time you have left.
Checks in the air do need to be done in a timely manner, but that comes with practice.
Checks on the ground should never, ever be rushed.
Nor should an Instructor suggest to a student to hurry up.
However: A Preflight Check, which could easily be done by a PPL in 5 minutes might take a brand new student 30 minutes. If, after 10 hours it is still taking 30 minutes (not having even reduced to 25 minutes) then the Instructor would be correct to comment on this to see what the cause might be.
The OP mentioned a lack of continuity (due Wx) and this could be the reason. So I repeat my previous suggestion: Have a lesson on 'Checks'. No flying involved so can be done on one of those bad Wx days.
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Have a lesson on 'Checks'. No flying involved so can be done on one of those bad Wx days
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Even an old experienced pilot/gliding instructor like me can get too complacent about the preflight inspection. See my last post on the gliding stories thread for details!
So Pat, you are actually off to a good start; we should have done a careful walkround before flying on last Sunday, and we didn't.
So Pat, you are actually off to a good start; we should have done a careful walkround before flying on last Sunday, and we didn't.
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Rubbish instructor. Why would you pay him to speak to you like that.. Take your hours elsewhere to a school where people are more accommodating.
If you fancy a move to the south, PM me.
If you fancy a move to the south, PM me.
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Hi id like to thank everyone for the positive feed back, " level altitude" thats exactly the kind of maths my instructor asks me, and i do get the answers right to the fuel calculation questions he asks me its just the pressure i dont like, ive always found maths difficult, i dont actually think im bad at maths i really think im just scared of them if that makes sense. And just to answer your mathematical question no we wont have to go to the pumps to fuel up we have a sufficient amount of fuel to fly for an hour. Its really my last lesson that has thrown me the most, when the instructor told me im taking too long to complete simple tasks like the walk around and his thoughts on how slow its taking me to catch onto things, he also commented on how i find simple tasks difficult, to be honest he has sucked allot of confidence out of me, im beginning to think that i should just leave it because from what hes saying im doing everything wrong and making an entire disaster out of each lesson.
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Also coming back to " level altitudes " response to mathematical calculations, that's exactly what my instructor asks my when im doing lessons with my instructor, I understand if the aircraft has 40 liters of fuel in it and it consumes 20 liters an hour you will have approximately two hours flying time before fuel runs out, well im hoping that's correct anyways! its just when my instructor asks me " if we have 36 liters of fuel in the aircraft how long will be be able to fly for until we run out of fuel " that's where i tend to get abit confused and flustered and begin to panic, i find it difficult to work them calculations out in my head. Thats what im worried the most about, and if im already worried about the mathematical calculations it doesn't make me feel much better when my instructor comments about how bad i am at doing simple calculations.