Wing down during final approach.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,625
Received 296 Likes
on
164 Posts
...and Craig Hosking wasn't the first - another American, Mike Murphy did it in the 1930s with a specially built aircraft named Cheek to Cheek.
Thread Drift. If you watch Flyingmac's video Alien Landings 1 to the end, a link to Alien Landings 2 appears at the top left. It's a DH82 Thruxton Jackeroo - C-FPHZ. G-APHZ was exported to Canada in 1970. I wonder if she's still flying. I did some of my PPL training in her in 1964.
Last edited by Maoraigh1; 4th Feb 2014 at 05:29. Reason: Spelling
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Glens o' Angus by way of LA
Age: 60
Posts: 1,975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cross control it down every time coz wings level crabbing just does not feel right to me when on final although I do carry a few exta mph because of the x control config and the ASI being even more inaccurate on final when slipping.
On a completely different subject I,m logged in here using my new iPad and the posts that have video links just appear as large grey boxes with the video title at the top but nowhere to click the link to play it, anyone any ideas ?
On a completely different subject I,m logged in here using my new iPad and the posts that have video links just appear as large grey boxes with the video title at the top but nowhere to click the link to play it, anyone any ideas ?
It's a DH82 Thruxton Jackeroo - C-FPHZ. G-APHZ was exported to Canada in
1970. I wonder if she's still flying. I did some of my PPL training in her in
1964
C-FPHZ | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
On a completely different subject I,m logged in here using my new iPad and the posts that have video links just appear as large grey boxes with the video title at the top but nowhere to click the link to play it, anyone any ideas ?
How to get Flash on iPad: Play Flash videos and games on iPad, iPad mini - How to - Macworld UK
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pace nice video. Would he stall if he lowered the nose?
obviously a stall is dependant on AOA not whether you push the nose up or down but in this situation if he pushed forwards he would climb and increase AOA if he pulled back the opposite.
But upside down he would get a very good view of the tyres and as such would not have to sit there waiting for the aircraft to sink onto the runway but would know when the tyres were about to touch.
so could be a new technique for precise flying it on
the other option a redesign of the undercarriage so the wheels rotate automatically to align with the runway regardless of crab.Then you could land in a crab situation with the crab
Je jestPace
Last edited by Pace; 4th Feb 2014 at 14:31.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wales
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't it funny, all the theory of NACA Airfoil sections, a nice curve to the top of the wing, and a flat bottom section... When the thing works perfectly well upside down!
As for.. 'if he lowered the nose', I suppose you need to define what you mean by 'lowered'.... wrt what?
As for.. 'if he lowered the nose', I suppose you need to define what you mean by 'lowered'.... wrt what?
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Western USA
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
piperboy
Click on the title portion of the box and it will play.
On a completely different subject I,m logged in here using my new iPad and the posts that have video links just appear as large grey boxes with the video title at the top but nowhere to click the link to play it, anyone any ideas ?
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Western USA
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't it funny, all the theory of NACA Airfoil sections, a nice curve to the top of the wing, and a flat bottom section... When the thing works perfectly well upside down!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't it funny, all the theory of NACA Airfoil sections, a nice curve to the top of the wing, and a flat bottom section... When the thing works perfectly well upside down!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chuck
going back to an earlier video on the water skimming i wonder if its as dangerous as we think?
i would be surprised if a respected aerobatic team would all do something with high risk?
I know at a certain velocity divers hitting water are faced with certain death as the water is almost solid.
I would like to know these pilots technique?
Maybe at high speed the lake becomes almost like a runway. Maybe with brakes on the tyre profile pushes the aircraft away from the surface hence stopping the wheels from digging in?
Maybe a bit like skimming a flat pebble over water it only dives in when the velocity dies.
I don't know the answer! but had the same impression as you at first that the procedure was high risk. Now not so sure? Going off topic but just interested if anyone knows?
You might get one Nutter individual out to kill himself but not an organised team and not flying it in formation?
Pace
going back to an earlier video on the water skimming i wonder if its as dangerous as we think?
i would be surprised if a respected aerobatic team would all do something with high risk?
I know at a certain velocity divers hitting water are faced with certain death as the water is almost solid.
I would like to know these pilots technique?
Maybe at high speed the lake becomes almost like a runway. Maybe with brakes on the tyre profile pushes the aircraft away from the surface hence stopping the wheels from digging in?
Maybe a bit like skimming a flat pebble over water it only dives in when the velocity dies.
I don't know the answer! but had the same impression as you at first that the procedure was high risk. Now not so sure? Going off topic but just interested
if anyone knows?You might get one Nutter individual out to kill himself but not an organised team and not flying it in formation?
Last edited by Pace; 4th Feb 2014 at 21:29.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
going back to an earlier video on the water skimming i wonder if its as dangerous as we think?
i would be surprised if a respected aerobatic team would all do something with high risk?
In Europe we were restricted to a floor of 200 feet at all airshows so water skiing was a moot point for us.
The physics of such a display are quite well known, it is hydroplaning.
Hydroplaning works best with the brakes on as you can demonstrate with your car.
Is it high risk??
That is a question each pilot must answer for him / her self....for me it would have been because I needed my license to earn my living so water skiing an airplane was never really an appealing sport for me.
And I always felt I would rather be a live chicken than a dead duck.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Daventry UK
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to come late to this well mannered and highly educational thread, but I can't help feeling that we've missed the point. This is about what happens on that day when, despite the best pre-flight planning, the crosswind goes outside 'demonstrated' limits.
I've always used crab angle right to the ground, straightening just before the wheels touch, and this has served me (and apparently my aircraft) well. This was especially true one day flying my PA-28 to a single runway airport in Sweden where the unforecast x-wind component turned out to be 30kt+. The landing was a non-event, unlike the subsequent taxi which was extremely difficult due to the aircraft constantly wanting to weathercock.
As I turned off I watched the next arrival, an ATR flying wing low, and for a moment I really thought the wing tip had touched the ground. It's the closest I've been to witnessing a CAT incident.
The PA-28 could not have held off that ferocious crosswind wing low, because there is just not the control authority, but in the crab it can defy (almost) any wind. Of course in the last few feet the wind gradient usually falls off, meaning that the 'kicking' straight is normally a gradual adjustment, not the violent manoevre described by some. Just be ready to keep straight during the roll out!
I've always used crab angle right to the ground, straightening just before the wheels touch, and this has served me (and apparently my aircraft) well. This was especially true one day flying my PA-28 to a single runway airport in Sweden where the unforecast x-wind component turned out to be 30kt+. The landing was a non-event, unlike the subsequent taxi which was extremely difficult due to the aircraft constantly wanting to weathercock.
As I turned off I watched the next arrival, an ATR flying wing low, and for a moment I really thought the wing tip had touched the ground. It's the closest I've been to witnessing a CAT incident.
The PA-28 could not have held off that ferocious crosswind wing low, because there is just not the control authority, but in the crab it can defy (almost) any wind. Of course in the last few feet the wind gradient usually falls off, meaning that the 'kicking' straight is normally a gradual adjustment, not the violent manoevre described by some. Just be ready to keep straight during the roll out!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
meaning that the 'kicking' straight is normally a gradual adjustment, not the violent manoevre described by some. Just be ready to keep straight during the roll out!
Pace
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly.....by aligning the aircraft straight down the runway inertia of mass will keep the airplane from drifting sideways......as long as you do not stay in the air to long.
Sorry to come late to this well mannered and highly educational thread,
Isn't it amazing how discussing things like adults makes for a better experience?
Sorry to come late to this well mannered and highly educational thread,
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Western USA
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kicking is a slang term which isn't exactly accurately descriptive of the rate of rudder action required to align the longitudinal axis of the flying machine with the actual magnetic heading of the runway while using visual cues...like calling a "spot of tea" a spot. 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly.....by aligning the aircraft straight down the runway inertia of mass will keep the airplane from drifting sideways......as long as you do not stay in the air to long.
if you end up poised like a constipated ballerina 6 feet up in the air pulling back trying to get the aircraft to sink, then yes you will be putting in all manner of control inputs voluntary and probably involuntary to stop yourself examining the field alongside the runway at close quarters but you got it wrong!
Ok we can all get a gust which picks us back up and have to sort it with aeleron and rudder but its usually technique which is wrong which makes you go from crab to wing down.
.
If the winds are that strong don't hang around but learn to fly the aircraft on and put it down firmly!
Pace