Hi - SP here, flare frsutration!
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Learning to fly in lousy weather is like practicing trap shooting on windy days. You'll master the concept and ace it on better days. Don't turn down dual instruction during bad weather days. You'll be a better pilot.
Join Date: Aug 2013
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I'm in exactly this position at the moment. Just cannot get that flare nailed! Used to fly gliders which is why I have a habit of not flaring quite enough. I'm safe.. But not quite safe enough if you get my drift. Really annoying!! Circuit after circuit, bang after bang. Done 27 circuits now and wondering if it'll ever get better 
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Hi all,
Just to add my ten cents to this thread - I did my PPL in the States in a 152, and at the start I always used to flare that little bit too early, leading to a nice 'thud' on touchdown as the plane dropped onto the runway.
Looking back, I put it down to just being absolutely scared stiff of bouncing the nosewheel, and also the instructor beside me shouting 'hold it off' 'hold it off' to me as we came down.
With a little practice though, I found that the trick was just to let the plane keep coming down a little bit longer - I definitely developed a better feel for it once I started landing solo and had the chance to experiment a bit.
I guess it's a bit like when you learn to drive and you give parked cars a wide berth to your left as you pass (or your right in the States!). After a while you get a better feel for where the side of your car is, and you don't have to move across so much.
Just to add my ten cents to this thread - I did my PPL in the States in a 152, and at the start I always used to flare that little bit too early, leading to a nice 'thud' on touchdown as the plane dropped onto the runway.
Looking back, I put it down to just being absolutely scared stiff of bouncing the nosewheel, and also the instructor beside me shouting 'hold it off' 'hold it off' to me as we came down.
With a little practice though, I found that the trick was just to let the plane keep coming down a little bit longer - I definitely developed a better feel for it once I started landing solo and had the chance to experiment a bit.
I guess it's a bit like when you learn to drive and you give parked cars a wide berth to your left as you pass (or your right in the States!). After a while you get a better feel for where the side of your car is, and you don't have to move across so much.
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Finally solo
I finally went solo today after 60+ hours. Think it is probably partly related to age 50+ which makes picking up new motor skills takes longer than when younger and work leading to several gaps of three or four weeks between lessons.
Not sure what made the difference as had a three week gap since last leason. At one point instructor was worried I was not progressing so had a check flight with CFI. His helpful advice for me (6 foot in PA 28) was that at lading I am the same height off the runway as when standing next to the plane. Otherwise he said I was not far off (apart from the last where I dropped the nose wheel rather hard as soon as the main wheels touched down) and I have done 5 more hours since but until today was not getting the round out and flare consistent. Usually 1st and last poor. Record was one lesson with all go arounds (bounce, drift off the side of he declared runway, too fast, too high and one because the runway was still occupied at decision height). Advantages (?) of number of ciciuits is I can fly a go around consistently while complying with a noise abatement circuit, have done practice forced landings into nearly all the available fields (and one of the two grass strips) andr glide approaches from most parts of the circuit where can reach the airfield including to a full stop landing rather than go around.
Made a conscious decision when realised first solo was going to be a long time coming to enjoy the flying with an instructor. Did a few general handling / practice navigation lessons but also flew my wife to the flying proms at Shuttleworth and to Gloucester to drop off a club pilot flying back in another plane.
The pleasure of flying solo in the twilight looking down on the local villages was magical. So people on the thread are right it does come eventually.
Chris
Not sure what made the difference as had a three week gap since last leason. At one point instructor was worried I was not progressing so had a check flight with CFI. His helpful advice for me (6 foot in PA 28) was that at lading I am the same height off the runway as when standing next to the plane. Otherwise he said I was not far off (apart from the last where I dropped the nose wheel rather hard as soon as the main wheels touched down) and I have done 5 more hours since but until today was not getting the round out and flare consistent. Usually 1st and last poor. Record was one lesson with all go arounds (bounce, drift off the side of he declared runway, too fast, too high and one because the runway was still occupied at decision height). Advantages (?) of number of ciciuits is I can fly a go around consistently while complying with a noise abatement circuit, have done practice forced landings into nearly all the available fields (and one of the two grass strips) andr glide approaches from most parts of the circuit where can reach the airfield including to a full stop landing rather than go around.
Made a conscious decision when realised first solo was going to be a long time coming to enjoy the flying with an instructor. Did a few general handling / practice navigation lessons but also flew my wife to the flying proms at Shuttleworth and to Gloucester to drop off a club pilot flying back in another plane.
The pleasure of flying solo in the twilight looking down on the local villages was magical. So people on the thread are right it does come eventually.
Chris
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Well done chase. The main object holding me back from circuit solo's at the moment is my licence from CASA. Doing some exams this weekend in preparation. Looks like its going to be in the new year for me.
I got my copy of stick and rudder, excellent reading so far. I would also highly recommend this book to others. It dumbs down the physics/engineering a bit, to help make it easier to understand.
I got my copy of stick and rudder, excellent reading so far. I would also highly recommend this book to others. It dumbs down the physics/engineering a bit, to help make it easier to understand.
Join Date: Aug 2013
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I finally did it and did my first solo today!! My stage check landings were a wee bit flat but much better when my instructor said "let's play a keep the nose above the horizon game".
To my surprise he asked me taxy back and at the ramp he hopped out and let me go!
Unforgettable experience!
To my surprise he asked me taxy back and at the ramp he hopped out and let me go!
Unforgettable experience!
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Hi Alex,
Good to hear, it's a great feeling you'll always remember. Just out of interest, where are you learning to fly? Not RNAS Heron, are you? I ask because I have a friend who lives in Yeovil, keeps on about wanting to fly and is wondering where would be best to learn.....
Good to hear, it's a great feeling you'll always remember. Just out of interest, where are you learning to fly? Not RNAS Heron, are you? I ask because I have a friend who lives in Yeovil, keeps on about wanting to fly and is wondering where would be best to learn.....
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Just about touched the earth 
that PA28 took off like a helicopter and from then on in it was a completely surreal experience
I'm actually learning in Florida at the moment, at EFT doing an EASA PPL only. Weather here isn't great though, getting some completely unseasonal storms.
I am usually in or around the base most of the time, however if you do not have a relationship with the armed forces or the station, it can be hard to learn there. Compton Abbas isn't too far from Yeovil and charge reasonable rates, also Dunkeswell is another reasonably local airfield.
that PA28 took off like a helicopter and from then on in it was a completely surreal experience I'm actually learning in Florida at the moment, at EFT doing an EASA PPL only. Weather here isn't great though, getting some completely unseasonal storms.
I am usually in or around the base most of the time, however if you do not have a relationship with the armed forces or the station, it can be hard to learn there. Compton Abbas isn't too far from Yeovil and charge reasonable rates, also Dunkeswell is another reasonably local airfield.
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Originally Posted by MyMeowCat
I was wondering if anyone ever tried to teach themselves how to round out and flare by watching youtube videos people put up of their approaces and landings?
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I was wondering if anyone ever tried to teach themselves how to round out and flare by watching youtube videos people put up of their approaces and landings?
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You do so well, and then.... Couldn't make it happen today. Round out and flare not to bad, but my approaches were just horrible. To high, to low, to fast to slow, not on the centre line... Bad day I guess.
So last flight I did was in a plane with analogue instruments, today it was glass. Of course switching is great, teaches you both, but I found my self hunting around the cockpit looking for instruments... Grrrr, so instructor covers up all the instruments! Start flying without instruments and all of a sudden things improve a bit. The instructors have tons of experience, but I cant judge speed and I really do need that airspeed indicator, especially on final. The idea today was to try and get me to judge the speed and altitude, not to be exact, but so you have an idea.
I must be at about 20 hours now, so frustrating at times. I wished I started doing this when I was younger! I reckon it would have been a lot easier!
So last flight I did was in a plane with analogue instruments, today it was glass. Of course switching is great, teaches you both, but I found my self hunting around the cockpit looking for instruments... Grrrr, so instructor covers up all the instruments! Start flying without instruments and all of a sudden things improve a bit. The instructors have tons of experience, but I cant judge speed and I really do need that airspeed indicator, especially on final. The idea today was to try and get me to judge the speed and altitude, not to be exact, but so you have an idea.
I must be at about 20 hours now, so frustrating at times. I wished I started doing this when I was younger! I reckon it would have been a lot easier!
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Hi - SP here, flare frsutration!
Armchair flying is my suggestion, you know how to do it, you know what your struggling to put into practice. Just take some time fairly regularly, close you eyes and fly through a circuit. It really helped me when I was learning and I still do it now and it makes a difference.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll get it , but even the best pilots have a rough landing from time to time so don't beat yourself up.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll get it , but even the best pilots have a rough landing from time to time so don't beat yourself up.
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Originally Posted by flarepilot
dear original poster
did you try my exercise of going down an escalator?
did you try my exercise of going down an escalator?
Re the escalator, well those things are still dangerous at the moment. Knee is doing well, but still got issues. In fact its looking like I may have to go for more surgery, which sucks cause it will once again ground me from all my sports/hobbies.
But, here is the thing. I am a sailor and a motorcyclist. So I understand wind, and I understand the 'look where you are going' thing. But, do you think I can apply them subconsciously to flying like I do when sailing/riding? Nope...
So I got the round out/flare/hold off part working pretty well now. But, for the life of me I can't compensate for wind. Get this, I can put a boat on a trailer or pontoon when there is 30knots of crosswind and 5 knots of tide, but I cant convince myself to turn early (or late) on base to final to compensate for wind that I know is there!!! To add insult to injury, we fly over water, so I can see the wind too!
Andy_P I suggest you take a break from the circuit and do some navigation, aerobatics, whatever, then go back fresh. Going round and round is frustrating, makes you stale, and is probably counterproductive, especially as your medical may be delayed.
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I've noticed that if I don't fly for a month & then take off go round the circuit & land immediately it is usually crap. Take off & chuck it about a bit for 15 mins the landing is fine. Why's that?