Hi - SP here, flare frsutration!
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Funny thing about me is that for some reason most of my landings (touch and go's) are questionable except the last one of the day (the full stop) is often perfect!
Last edited by MyMeowCat; 12th Dec 2013 at 04:24.
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Lots of good advice, I would add that if you plan to go on to higher performance aircraft also carry some power on approach and don't get into the habit of reducing power and pitching up going over the fence because if you do, it will seem to fall out of the sky. Fly it to the flair then pitch up pull the power and hold off for a nice soft landing. Also keep your eye line high, wind the seat up till your head touches the ceiling then wind down an inch.
You don't say if you are on grass or tarmac. If on tarmac watch your first landing on grass, without the runway edges, you will flair to low and bounce, the other way round may flair to high. Good flying
You don't say if you are on grass or tarmac. If on tarmac watch your first landing on grass, without the runway edges, you will flair to low and bounce, the other way round may flair to high. Good flying
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mymeowcat
a very long time ago, many discovered that if you wanted to learn how to land, you practiced landings.
and if you wanted to learn how to touch and go you would practice touch and goes.
so, why not try just doing ffull stop taxi back landings.
touch and goes may be fine for fullfilling day currency but for the learning student...learn to land, learn to takeoff as different things.
of course go arounds should be practiced too.
in fact, in the USA< you can be cleared for the OPTION by ATC...a touch and go, a full stop landing with taxi back (additional taxi clearance reqd) a low pass a stop and go etc.
I'd rather see 5 full stops in an hour than 10 touch and goes.
a very long time ago, many discovered that if you wanted to learn how to land, you practiced landings.
and if you wanted to learn how to touch and go you would practice touch and goes.
so, why not try just doing ffull stop taxi back landings.
touch and goes may be fine for fullfilling day currency but for the learning student...learn to land, learn to takeoff as different things.
of course go arounds should be practiced too.
in fact, in the USA< you can be cleared for the OPTION by ATC...a touch and go, a full stop landing with taxi back (additional taxi clearance reqd) a low pass a stop and go etc.
I'd rather see 5 full stops in an hour than 10 touch and goes.
Crash one,
I absolutely agree. The closest I've come to ground-looping was below 15kts at the end of a landing roll.
I absolutely agree. The closest I've come to ground-looping was below 15kts at the end of a landing roll.
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Thanks flarepilot -- I think the reason for my touch and gos not doing so well was because of a subconsious fear I'll use up the whole run way so I had a habit of trying to bring her to touch-down too soon.
I've been making some good landings for the past while now so I'm about ready to go solo --- everything seems to have come together.
In the past my landings were a mess and I always did something wrong. Maybe to help out anyone who has had all sorts of issues like me I'll post up a few things that seemed to fix my issues. Me and the original poster probabaly have certain things in our heads which were not solved by instructors saying things like to look down the runway, explaining how its like slow flight or chanting to hold off ect.)
I hope the following might be helpful for some people having similar issues:
1) Think of the flare as a three step procedure: The round-out to stop the descent, then the level-off to bleed off the excess energy then the final "flare". One of the problems I had was thinking it was all a singular movement and I would go from descent attitude to nose up which caused ballooning, rising then stalling then dropping to the runway, ect.
2) Go to the airport and watch the C172s approach. I noticed that the nose angle was only slightly pointed downwards and the round-out was fairly gentle and only took a little bit of back-pressure to lift the nose a few degrees to level attitude.
3) I read some good stuff on "Stick and Rudder" about how it says people's distance judgement is crap and pilots use angles and "perspective". It didn't really help me right away. I did try another exercise which helped where someone suggested squattng up and down and looking at a table top or bookshelf and judging angles...then things started to click together.
4) I found by looking at the end of the runway a bit before crossing the threshold helps. Too often I would get fixated at the numbers/aiming point, pull back then look at the end of the runway...at which point find the nose above the horizon and rising again. I find it helps to look at the end of the runway (picking a point like the numbers at the opposite end)even before the round-out. Picking a spot at the opposite end of the run way helped me think of it as a pivot point or some angle thing which seemed to kick off some kind of trigonometry thing in my head...as the angle gets less and less the distance to the ground is getting smaller until I just seemed to mysteriously know when to round out.
5) The next thing was to get used to that sliding feeling you get when in ground effect and to not get scared an pull up ect. I taught my self to appreciate that feeling as it means I'm about the right distance off the ground. It also means I'm at that point where I should be looking for the "site picture" you hear instructors talk about.
Some other things I did which might help but unsure of is:
a) stop watching videos of aircraft landings other than what you currently fly. Somehow this got into my head a C172 lands as fast as a jet and with high nose up attitudes.
b) Pretend your hand is an airpane and land it on the table top with point #3 above emphasizing the roundout and flying level seemed to help me get a kinesthetic "feel" for the landing process. I know this sounds wierd but I think it helped me.
We dont have much wind here but I guess the next step is to try some of those nasty crosswinds
I've been making some good landings for the past while now so I'm about ready to go solo --- everything seems to have come together.
In the past my landings were a mess and I always did something wrong. Maybe to help out anyone who has had all sorts of issues like me I'll post up a few things that seemed to fix my issues. Me and the original poster probabaly have certain things in our heads which were not solved by instructors saying things like to look down the runway, explaining how its like slow flight or chanting to hold off ect.)
I hope the following might be helpful for some people having similar issues:
1) Think of the flare as a three step procedure: The round-out to stop the descent, then the level-off to bleed off the excess energy then the final "flare". One of the problems I had was thinking it was all a singular movement and I would go from descent attitude to nose up which caused ballooning, rising then stalling then dropping to the runway, ect.
2) Go to the airport and watch the C172s approach. I noticed that the nose angle was only slightly pointed downwards and the round-out was fairly gentle and only took a little bit of back-pressure to lift the nose a few degrees to level attitude.
3) I read some good stuff on "Stick and Rudder" about how it says people's distance judgement is crap and pilots use angles and "perspective". It didn't really help me right away. I did try another exercise which helped where someone suggested squattng up and down and looking at a table top or bookshelf and judging angles...then things started to click together.
4) I found by looking at the end of the runway a bit before crossing the threshold helps. Too often I would get fixated at the numbers/aiming point, pull back then look at the end of the runway...at which point find the nose above the horizon and rising again. I find it helps to look at the end of the runway (picking a point like the numbers at the opposite end)even before the round-out. Picking a spot at the opposite end of the run way helped me think of it as a pivot point or some angle thing which seemed to kick off some kind of trigonometry thing in my head...as the angle gets less and less the distance to the ground is getting smaller until I just seemed to mysteriously know when to round out.
5) The next thing was to get used to that sliding feeling you get when in ground effect and to not get scared an pull up ect. I taught my self to appreciate that feeling as it means I'm about the right distance off the ground. It also means I'm at that point where I should be looking for the "site picture" you hear instructors talk about.
Some other things I did which might help but unsure of is:
a) stop watching videos of aircraft landings other than what you currently fly. Somehow this got into my head a C172 lands as fast as a jet and with high nose up attitudes.
b) Pretend your hand is an airpane and land it on the table top with point #3 above emphasizing the roundout and flying level seemed to help me get a kinesthetic "feel" for the landing process. I know this sounds wierd but I think it helped me.
We dont have much wind here but I guess the next step is to try some of those nasty crosswinds
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The other thing about full stop landings rather than touch & go. You are prob being yelled at by the instructor to get the flaps up, carb heat cold, throttle up etc in whatever order that particular instructor wants it. If the runway is any more than 300metres then not having to concentrate on re-configuring the aircraft for take off will allow you to think "land" & not "go". Anyway, don't practice landing on 300metre runways till you can land in 300metres!!
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Ok forget the carb heat, the point I'm making is the thought that the exercise is to take off again, therefore some of the thinking capacity during the landing phase is directed towards the next bit, taking off again. I have done it myself, it seems half of the brain is trying to land & the other half is saying "take off as soon as possible so don't waste time landing. Difficult to explain but isolated details like carb heat on or off is only a part of it. Besides, I've landed all the way to the hangar with carb heat hot, I've also done t&g with it hot, rate of climb isn't quite so good but not life threatening. It was a decision of mine to see what the real effect would be rather than the parrot fashion thing! I've also taken off (t&g) with all the flaps down, across a flat barley field, just to see if it could climb enough. I'm still here & I know that even on a short strip go around I can throttle up first & reconfigure when I'm ready, is that a bad thing? (My aircraft not necessarily any other).
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first, the 172 and carb heat
I hate the 172, luv th e cherokee series
but if you have to go around and you have your carb heat on in the 172, there is a way to position your throttle hand to hit both throttle and carb heat at the same time.
my meow cat
read and re read stick and rudder...think of it as cheap flying lessons...readit ten times and its worth 200 hours
I hate the 172, luv th e cherokee series
but if you have to go around and you have your carb heat on in the 172, there is a way to position your throttle hand to hit both throttle and carb heat at the same time.
my meow cat
read and re read stick and rudder...think of it as cheap flying lessons...readit ten times and its worth 200 hours
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Yay, CASA finally took my money!! I guess that means my licence is now being processed.
Had 4 different instructors the last 4 lessons, all happy with my flare and roundout etc. Just need to tidy up my approach speeds now (they are not too bad, just a little slow to react to changes due to wind and thermals etc).
Had 4 different instructors the last 4 lessons, all happy with my flare and roundout etc. Just need to tidy up my approach speeds now (they are not too bad, just a little slow to react to changes due to wind and thermals etc).
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Was told today I should cut down on lessons until my licence shows up. They reckon I am good to go solo. FI says I need to just get up there myself and practice! At the 26hour mark now.
