"Light Twin" fatal at Hawarden
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Yes, G-BXUY I'm told..
Pretty rare for there to be reasonable quality photographs of an aircraft in the seconds before impact.. no doubt will be of great interest to AAIB.
Horizontal vis at the surface looks ok(ish) but of course could have been very different a few hundred feet higher. Obviously a fairly substantial vertical impact yet no sign of fire/explosion. Fuel exhaustion maybe but not starvation IMHO
Still very sad.
Horizontal vis at the surface looks ok(ish) but of course could have been very different a few hundred feet higher. Obviously a fairly substantial vertical impact yet no sign of fire/explosion. Fuel exhaustion maybe but not starvation IMHO
Still very sad.
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Glad to see we've solved the cause of the accident from the comfort of our armchairs… 
Anyone remember the C310 accident at Norwich, asymmetric flap deployment on finals……??
Anyone remember the C310 accident at Norwich, asymmetric flap deployment on finals……??
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'Chuffer' Dandridge
Glad to see we've solved the cause of the accident from the comfort of our armchairs…
Anyone remember the C310 accident at Norwich, asymmetric flap deployment on finals……??
Glad to see we've solved the cause of the accident from the comfort of our armchairs…
Anyone remember the C310 accident at Norwich, asymmetric flap deployment on finals……??
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Chuffer, with ADR, as long as the discussion is respectful remembering this was a fatal accident I see no harm with informed speculation whilst we await the AAIB report.
There aren't many reasons a light twin rolls upside down, and looking at scenarios might not 'solve' it but what does it hurt?
For anyone not familiar with C310s the flaps are practically invisible from the cockpit as they are under-wing (split flaps) so if there were to be an asymmetry in flap deployment/retraction it wouldn't immediately be visually apparent.
I do not know this pilot, however I have a keen interest in the type, so would like to be able to speculate, respectfully, about possible failure modes.
There aren't many reasons a light twin rolls upside down, and looking at scenarios might not 'solve' it but what does it hurt?
For anyone not familiar with C310s the flaps are practically invisible from the cockpit as they are under-wing (split flaps) so if there were to be an asymmetry in flap deployment/retraction it wouldn't immediately be visually apparent.
I do not know this pilot, however I have a keen interest in the type, so would like to be able to speculate, respectfully, about possible failure modes.
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There are multiple reasons possible, of course. Maybe he didn't enrich coming down from altitude and then had to execute a go around - one engine sputtered, the other didn't.
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That he was going-around seems fairly evident from the pictures, and to roll through 90 degrees would take more than a "splutter" on the portside - this is an experienced pilot with lots of twin-time; not a GFT.
In my mind I can visualise the aircraft on approach, going-around, *something* happens, rolls left through 90 degrees, yaws left 90 degrees (to nose down) and hits the ground nose down slightly past the vertical then the tail drops and the whole thing slides to a halt.
No fire: But then there was nothing to ignite one and the fuel was on the wing tips in any event.
So I then think about what caused that port wing to drop (or starboard to rise) quite rapidly (all assuming the photo sequence I alluded to previously).
Whether he was asymmetric in the [missed] approach I don't know but will be important and is the only time ACH becomes relevant.
Reasons for a wing drop [in a twin] we all know - wing stalled, asymmetric power/lift, wrong rudder, structural fail of wing, flap deployed asymmetrically. Some of those can possibly be ruled-out by looking at the pictures.
In my mind I can visualise the aircraft on approach, going-around, *something* happens, rolls left through 90 degrees, yaws left 90 degrees (to nose down) and hits the ground nose down slightly past the vertical then the tail drops and the whole thing slides to a halt.
No fire: But then there was nothing to ignite one and the fuel was on the wing tips in any event.
So I then think about what caused that port wing to drop (or starboard to rise) quite rapidly (all assuming the photo sequence I alluded to previously).
Whether he was asymmetric in the [missed] approach I don't know but will be important and is the only time ACH becomes relevant.
Reasons for a wing drop [in a twin] we all know - wing stalled, asymmetric power/lift, wrong rudder, structural fail of wing, flap deployed asymmetrically. Some of those can possibly be ruled-out by looking at the pictures.
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In my mind I can visualise the aircraft on approach, going-around, *something* happens
The loss of control appears to have been total ; and so far I haven't read anything about any Mayday call.
All we know is that the unfortunate pilot was pronounced dead at the scene ; but death (or at least unconsciousness) could actually have happened several minutes earlier.
Information may be available from autopsy. Luckily there was no fire, which often cremates evidence when it does occur.
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Looking at the location of the aircraft on the airfield, I would think he had over 1.5 - 2.0 km of airfield left to manage an engine off landing. It is puzzling why he chose to fly on under power...
I wonder if turbulence from the A380 building might have caused a wind rotor, if the wind was from the west.
I wonder if turbulence from the A380 building might have caused a wind rotor, if the wind was from the west.
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It is puzzling why he chose to fly on under power...
If he was unconscious he would not have made any choices at all
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To go vertically into the ground like that there is only one realistic cause.
The aircraft stopped flying! stalled.
Whatever lead up to it stopping flying is the questionable bit.
Hence why it is so important in any scenario to keep the wing flying ie trade altitude for energy.If assymetric and loosing control pull both back and keep flying.
Better to crash in control than to crash out of control
Pace
The aircraft stopped flying! stalled.
Whatever lead up to it stopping flying is the questionable bit.
Hence why it is so important in any scenario to keep the wing flying ie trade altitude for energy.If assymetric and loosing control pull both back and keep flying.
Better to crash in control than to crash out of control
Pace
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Not saying this is a actually what happened.
But please all you twin drivers go and read up on Vmca.
You need to know how it changes depending what you are doing.
And also know how to sort it out if you have issues with it. Mind you on a low level GA there isn't a lot of time or energy to sort it.
To be honest even with commercial twin drivers its a relatively ignored subject Everyone thinks V2 is some sort of get out of jail card and if your above that your sorted. Even if you tell them well actually you can be at Vyse and be below Vmca they start scoffing that your talking rubbish.
But please all you twin drivers go and read up on Vmca.
You need to know how it changes depending what you are doing.
And also know how to sort it out if you have issues with it. Mind you on a low level GA there isn't a lot of time or energy to sort it.
To be honest even with commercial twin drivers its a relatively ignored subject Everyone thinks V2 is some sort of get out of jail card and if your above that your sorted. Even if you tell them well actually you can be at Vyse and be below Vmca they start scoffing that your talking rubbish.
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To go vertically into the ground like that there is only one realistic cause.
The aircraft stopped flying! stalled.
Whatever lead up to it stopping flying is the questionable bit.
Hence why it is so important in any scenario to keep the wing flying ie trade altitude for energy.If assymetric and loosing control pull both back and keep flying.
Better to crash in control than to crash out of control
Pace
The aircraft stopped flying! stalled.
Whatever lead up to it stopping flying is the questionable bit.
Hence why it is so important in any scenario to keep the wing flying ie trade altitude for energy.If assymetric and loosing control pull both back and keep flying.
Better to crash in control than to crash out of control
Pace