New EASA licence holder / Cutting up EASA PPL?
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think no, you can't.
But then why send me my license, with no letter and them giving me 1 A4 piece of paper with 8 little pages on it and then a plastic wallets the size of those pages in a little book? What else am I meant to conclude?
So technically I don't have a valid license...but there are many commercial pilots out there without valid licenses in that case!
But then why send me my license, with no letter and them giving me 1 A4 piece of paper with 8 little pages on it and then a plastic wallets the size of those pages in a little book? What else am I meant to conclude?
So technically I don't have a valid license...but there are many commercial pilots out there without valid licenses in that case!
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Glasgow
Age: 40
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most NAAs agreed that a cut up licence is a defaced licence and therefore an invalid licence. If the CAA had cut it up before giving it to you, then that would (presumably) be fine.
EU / EASA doesn't say its valid. They just say that each "page" should be a certain size...
If you get ramp checked you will be grounded, or if you go for a rating renewal check - the examiner wont be able to sign the cut up licence. Until the CAA and NAAs change their mind - you need an A4 licence with lots of boxes.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as I am aware you cant make the law up as you go along - even if a lot of people think they can and do regardless.
Unless the law says the licence is invalid if cut up, it isn't. If you were grounded or were refused a sign off then I suspect you would have a case in law for damages which could be considerable which is why I recommended earlier that if you conduct ramp checks or are an examiner or instructor I would get a letter from the CAA confirming that they accept full responsibility for your grounding or refusing the sign off. Personally I think you will find the CAA will refuse to write the letter.
It would be interesting to know (given the other thread) how many commercial pilots have cut up their licences already and what view their employers take. The damages for grounding a BA flight for example could be considerable. I suspect most commercial operators, if they have got any sense, will tell their employees not to cut up their licence - I know I would, but who knows. On the other hand I suspect there are plenty of private plots who have done so. If I were one and got grounded I would very happily have the matter examined by the Court.
I suggest it is the law that needs changing but I hope EASA realise it would be pointless to do so, there is nothing wrong with the law as it stands which from what we are told does not state your licence is invalid if it is cut up.
Unless the law says the licence is invalid if cut up, it isn't. If you were grounded or were refused a sign off then I suspect you would have a case in law for damages which could be considerable which is why I recommended earlier that if you conduct ramp checks or are an examiner or instructor I would get a letter from the CAA confirming that they accept full responsibility for your grounding or refusing the sign off. Personally I think you will find the CAA will refuse to write the letter.
It would be interesting to know (given the other thread) how many commercial pilots have cut up their licences already and what view their employers take. The damages for grounding a BA flight for example could be considerable. I suspect most commercial operators, if they have got any sense, will tell their employees not to cut up their licence - I know I would, but who knows. On the other hand I suspect there are plenty of private plots who have done so. If I were one and got grounded I would very happily have the matter examined by the Court.
I suggest it is the law that needs changing but I hope EASA realise it would be pointless to do so, there is nothing wrong with the law as it stands which from what we are told does not state your licence is invalid if it is cut up.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kent
Age: 61
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A question for those who have dug through the EASA paperwork....
Does EASA say it's OK to cut up the licence? (If so could you give a reference).
Or does EASA not state that you can't?
The CAA, in a couple of docs, says:
I presume the argument is that, once cut up, it is no longer in the stipulated layout.
OC619
Does EASA say it's OK to cut up the licence? (If so could you give a reference).
Or does EASA not state that you can't?
The CAA, in a couple of docs, says:
Pilots are not permitted to cut up their licence as its format and layout are stipulated by EASA regulations.
OC619
Pompey till I die
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Guildford
Age: 51
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I was at the CAA....
...the lady expressly told me NOT to cut up the license as it invalidates it. I then looked at the license and realised why she thought to mention it 
The rules for flying are so archaic, so convoluted, that I often think you could take a fine tooth comb to ANY flight and find something amiss somewhere
The rules for flying are so archaic, so convoluted, that I often think you could take a fine tooth comb to ANY flight and find something amiss somewhere
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
See joes post.
It says each page shall be 1/8 th of an a4, which unless you consider page has the ordinary meaning to include a page within a page is impossible to achieve without cutting it up. In fact quite possibly the licence is invalid if you dont cut it up.
Pompey paul the lady might have actually directed you to infringe the law, now there is a thought.
It says each page shall be 1/8 th of an a4, which unless you consider page has the ordinary meaning to include a page within a page is impossible to achieve without cutting it up. In fact quite possibly the licence is invalid if you dont cut it up.
Pompey paul the lady might have actually directed you to infringe the law, now there is a thought.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 23rd May 2013 at 22:45.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New EASA licence holder
I just find it barking mad that we are being issued with a licence/ holder that just. Doesn't work as 3 of the sides really need to be visible.
Only way currently is cutting but yes I know it invalidates.
Any thoughts
Only way currently is cutting but yes I know it invalidates.
Any thoughts
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, you take it out of the page and open it up as it was designed. One would assume that as a person holds a pilots licence then they also have an appropriate set of digits with which to do this and the required dexterity.
Personally I don't have an issue with it and am grateful for the extra pages to put medical and various examiner approvals into. My FAA licence and medical even fit!
I guess I am just not as resistant to change as some?
Personally I don't have an issue with it and am grateful for the extra pages to put medical and various examiner approvals into. My FAA licence and medical even fit!
I guess I am just not as resistant to change as some?
Last edited by S-Works; 30th May 2013 at 08:19.
And how often does one actually look at the licence apart from when being ramp checked. I set add my appropriate expiry dates to an electronic calendar which provides adequate warning of when I need revals / checks / medical renewals. The rest of the time my licence sits in the flight bag and is rarely looked at.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Landan
Age: 40
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New EASA licence holder
I agree with Kestrel, it is silly that you can't see the segments of the licence that the pockets are clearly designed to fit. Anyway, i spoke to the CAA a while back and you are allowed to cut the page in half landscape.
Just one cut though otherwise it is invalidated. Still not great but at least you get to use another plastic pocket...
Just one cut though otherwise it is invalidated. Still not great but at least you get to use another plastic pocket...
I'll just leave mine in one piece, safe in the knowledge I lack the OCD or other mental health issues requiring me break out the scissors and fill the poly pockets in a small blue wallet which rarely is removed from my flight bag.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Age: 44
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Photocopy it, cut up the copy, and keep the original in there as well, that's what I've done. And yes I realise I have OCD 
Last edited by slw29; 30th May 2013 at 09:51.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll just leave mine in one piece, safe in the knowledge I lack the OCD or other mental health issues requiring me break out the scissors and fill the poly pockets in a small blue wallet which rarely is removed from my flight bag.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't even bother to use the blue wallet... I have a nice leather cover to my old brown one (it was a gift) so I just put it (uncut) in the old wallet... nervously awaiting the licence police as I sit here..
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally i cant see the problem, and dont really care.
However i still dont believe cutting up your licence invalidates it. If cutting it up is your thing i would support your right to do so!
However i still dont believe cutting up your licence invalidates it. If cutting it up is your thing i would support your right to do so!