New EASA licence holder / Cutting up EASA PPL?

[S-Works]

If I cut mine up it would not fit in the folder, there would be to many pages.....

[Fuji Abound]

Ah, but it is not the number of bits of paper you have .. .. .. but ,

[Johnm]

But no where near as nice and convenient as the little bit of plastic from the FAA........

I'm always paranoid about PPL licence validity because it's so Bl00dy complicated, but I drove cars without a licence for ages because I lost the old one and couldn't be bothered to go through the palaver of getting a photo one.

[Johnm]

That authority make its terms for you to exercise the privilege (not a right) perfectly clear. If you choose to violate those terms the authority has the right to withdraw the privilege.

That really annoys me too. I reckon I earned the RIGHT to fly aeroplanes as long as I obey the rules of the air and it was bl00dy hard work. I don't enjoy having some pip squeak at the Belgrano condescend to grant me the fruits of me labours

[Jetblu]

Utter madness how licences vary.

My driving licence clearly encourages for it to be cut.

..................................Tear along the dotted line....................................


or was that a speeding rating.

[EddieHeli]

Nobody told me I can't cut it up, it didn't come with any instructions what to do with it, and its not in any information that is available to me that I am officially required to know to exercise the privileges of it.
Anyone receiving the licence and wallet with all of those plastic sleeves without instructions would naturally think cutting it up is the thing to do.
So anyone with common sense who hasn't read this thread on pprune has probably cut theirs up to fit the pages into the wallet.
Like to see that one tested in court.
"Sorry your honour in the absence of information to the contrary and having been issued with 16 pages and a plastic wallet with sufficient sleeves to hold them I naturally assumed the CAA had left the guillotining to me to save money".
"Well you should have read pprune - send him down" LOL

[S-Works]

Actually its in CAP 804. A document you as a pilot should have read and be intimately familiar with. You will also find that ignorance no excuse.....

[A and C]

More EASA stupidity

Don't cut up your new EASA PPL, because despite the supplied plastic booklet being perfect and designed for this very purpose some idiot in EASA has deemed this to invalidate the certificate.

The chances are that if you get ramp checked the inspector will prohibit you from flying until a new certificate is issued, if you are at the other end of Europe and unable to fly will make the cost of getting the new certificate from the Cash And Agro look reasonable.

If you have already cut the thing up write to the CAA and use a different address as they don't charge to change the address but do charge to replace a damaged certificate.

[Fuji Abound]

Are you referring to the box on page 42?

This appears to say pilots are not permitted to tear up their license as the format is set by EASA. It doesn't appear to say that tearing up your license invalidates the license. To the extent it is a regulation I would like to see the EASA regulation which I suspect is the underpinning law. If that is the extent of it I very much doubt a box in an appendix in a CAP would be enforceable grounds for doing very much at all.

I also very much doubt any inspector would prohibit you from flying because you had cut up your license.

[md 600 driver]

Anyone know where you can get one of the caa 8 page holders from or is their a commercial company making one

[A and C]

Fuji

You may well be correct.............but do you want to take that chance when you and your aircraft are at the other end of Europe ?

This subject has been done to death on other forums, the fact of the matter is that the CAA have said that you cutting the licence to fit the supplied wallet invalidates the certificate and were as the UK CAA inspectors are reasonably laid back with PPL holders others may not be as it is a requirement to have a valid licence when flying.

So it follows that if the EASA licence is cut to fit the wallet it is not a valid certificate and so you should not be flying.

That makes no sense I hear you cry ! Well it would seem that at EASA they don't make sense.........they make money !

[BillieBob]

The requirements related to the format of the licence are at ARA.FCL.200 and Appendix 1 to Part-ARA - the UK version is non-compliant in a number of minor respects. Nowhere in the Regulation does it suggest that cutting the licence into sections will invalidate it, this is just another bright idea dreamed up by the idiots at Gatwick.

[silverknapper]

Not quite sure what the big debate is all about. You're not supposed to. Plain and simple. Why so keen to?

I like the new format. Its a lot more compact. And it's actually easier to take copies if ever needed of one A4 page than several wee ones.

Go ahead and cut it. But any examiner in the future who needs to sign your licence won't do so if they are abiding by the rules. I have heard this from a few TRE's.

Kind of reminds me of guys at work who don't like the blue book their new licence came in, so promptly put it in their old green one. Who cares.

[Fuji Abound]

BillieBob

Thanks.

I cant find that reference. I am not doubting it is correct. However I am OK with Google etc and it demonstrates that ignorance is an excuse if it is impossible for the man on the no 10 omnibus to find the legislation.

It is interesting that as you say it would appear cutting of the license does not invalidate the license - there is a surprise.

Not that I care, but ramp inspectors and examiners beware, if you find a cut license and take any action in consequence are you ready to be found liable for costs and damages in consequence of any unreasonable action you take - I hope you have it in writing from the CAA that they will fully support any action you take.

As I say I dont care, I have only made a few contributions because it annoys me when people are prepared to perpetuate and blindly follow this nonsense, rather than have the courage to say it is nonsense - shame on you.

[cockney steve]

[fact of the matter is that the CAA have said that you cutting the licence to fit the supplied wallet invalidates the certificate

That doesn't mean it's law
It could be that some puffed-up self-important halfwit bellend has DECIDED that he has the power to decree
"that's the law, 'cos I say so, and I'M in charge of the rubber stamp....so kowtow to me, or else"

I'd suggest the LICENSE is the conferring of the priviledges.....the bit of paper is only a confirmation of the records held at Belgrano.....like I said, - colour L@ser copy, indistinguishable from the original....chop it, produce it, let the jobsworth work himself into a paddy , then innocently produce an intact, folded copy from the back. Of course, you don't tell him that's a copy as well...the original is at home, in a safe place, isn't it?

[S-Works]

I am not sure whether to laugh or cry......

[F4TCT]

I fear this may be one thing in a long line of 'things' to do with EASA which make no sense and exist only to piss off those who hold any qualification in the aviation world.

I'll choose to laugh, im on the very of tears as it is...

[BillieBob]

I'd suggest the LICENSE is the conferring of the priviledges [sic]

That may be but, in law, the licence is the piece of paper.

the original is at home, in a safe place, isn't it?

I hope not or you would be in breach of EU law and liable to prosecution, particularly if you'd already pi$$ed off the 'jobsworth' carrying out the ramp check.

Fuji - all current EU legislation may be found on the EUR-lex website. However, the site is so user unfriendly that it defeats even Google's webcrawlers so it's probably not worth the effort. The regulation's on Page 18, the Appendix on Page 26

[Lone_Ranger]

Oh C'mon Billy, you gonna bend over and spread em every time you read that some EU pillock requests it?.............Put Your hands up..how many UK PPLs flying in the UK carry their license with them
nobody is going to arrest you for not adhering to such bollox......... grow a pair ffs

[F4TCT]

I personally carry mine, although every time i have been to a flying school for self hire, not one person has asked to see it....