Chipmunk in a crosswind

[Discorde]

My introduction to aviation was also in UAS Chippies. Brakes were checked 'off' in the landing checklist. For crosswind landings we were taught the crabbed approach, holding the crab until the end of the hold off and then ruddering the a/c straight just before 3-point touchdown, with aileron input to keep the wings level.

But I remember a solo sortie when a crosswind had sprung up while I was away from the field (Church Fenton). When I called 'downwind' another voice, obviously an instructor, chipped in with: 'couple of notches of brake, Lima 52?' which I duly selected.

The UAS method seemed to work although these days I prefer the crossed controls/ wing down/ fuselage aligned with runway for flare and hold off for both nosewheel & taildraggers, especially on narrow strips.

Ah, the whiff of cordite on 'contact!' . . .

[Chipmunk Janie]

What's the general consensus of how to handle limiting crosswinds in the Chippy. How do you do it and do you pre-set some brake before landing or trust in the brake lever?

I'm right with Shaggy's views on this. I do have a few points to add.

Taxying: You are probably out of limits if you need aileron to taxy in a Chipmunk, but it really does help so you might as well use it.

Aileron: On take off, use into-wind aileron. Do not be shy with it. In a strong wind, while stationery on the threshold, I start with full aileron and actually remove it as required. This does require good reflexes, so it's not for everyone.

Landing: If you keep the fuselage aligned on approach and you find you have full rudder deflection on landing, then you have none left for gusts. It's up to you whether you take a chance or land elsewhere. Be prepared for the worst. If you have full deflection and can't stay on the centre-line, on approach, you are out of your limits. If you crab then straighten at the last minute, you are leaving it very late to make a decision.

Brakes vary from one Chipmunk to another. I initially used GPugh's father's method until I discovered that the brake cables are so well tightened, on my Chipmunk, that I never need to set the brake lever for taxying. The odd dab-as-required works fine. The fact that brake cables stretch over time, needs to be considered, as this affects their effectiveness.

Tyres: Ensure they are both correctly inflated. Having low pressure in one will create drag on that side.

Here's an interesting experiment. It happened to my Chipmunk, by chance, and I'm sure it's not unique. Park the aircraft. Ensure the brakes are definitely OFF. Get out, put on full rudder deflection with your hand (in my case a strong side wind was holding it there) then get someone else to try pushing the aircraft. I found the wheel was locked SOLID. Not a single beefy chap could make that Chipmunk budge. When the wind died down, the rudder straightened and the aircraft moved again! This has never affected the handling on the ground. In fact, it probably assisted. It probably also meant my brake pads were wearing unnecessarily.

Shaggy: I love tight turns in the Chipmunk. One American chap saw me doing this on the concrete and commented that it would be damaging the stationary tyre. Any thoughts?

Which are the best brakes? Who cares? If it's got wings, it's worth flying.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Hi Janie. I tend to do my 360s on grass, but have done them on the apron. Not noticed any odd tyre wear as a result.

Many's the time I've pushed the Chippy tail-first out of the hangar and as soon as she pokes her tail into fresh air the wind whaps the rudder to full deflection, and the aeroplane stops dead! I ensure the rudder lock is fitted so this doesn't happen!

I also once taxied in a strong wind and turned directly downwind. The wind blew the rudder to full deflection and that brake came on. The tail lifted but I quickly centralised the rudder and thankfully the tailcame down again! After that, I ensure I 'brace' my feet on the rudder taxying in a strong tailwind.

I once pre-flighted ours after she'd undergone maintenance and noticed I could not push the rudder from stop to stop. It would move almost to either stop but could not be pushed further. I double checked the brakes were off (they were), then failed the aeroplane. Turned out the cables had been incorrectly adjusted. Not something to discover on attempting to recover from a spin!

[Small Rodent Driver]

No brakes for me on the Chippy for no better reason than that was how I was tought and checked out. Never had any problems with it and have found it to be one of the most sure footed taildraggers I have experienced.

During taxying I always found it possible to nudge the brake lever with my knee to assist in a turn.

For crosswinds I was tought the wing down wheeler technique and again have experienced no difficulty with some quite stiff crosswinds in the Chippy.

Lovely aircraft. A little quirky in some respects but that is part of it's charm for me.

I really miss the aeroplane and if a good one came up for sale I would be sorely tempted to buy one.

Happy days eh Vince?

PS. Hi Chipmunk Janey. We did meet at Barton some time back. I was in the yellow Cub at the time.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Happy days indeed, SRD! The Town With No Name, the train driver who didn't know where his train was going (Kemble to Barton, but we lobbed into Wolverhampton Intergalactic due appaling wx, so home by train from there), the fuel bowser with no key as we waited and waited to fill up (the first thing you do on landing in a Chippy!) while missing all the fun over on the other side of the airfield (always have a Scouse Chippy mate handy who can hot-wire it.. and you did!).

And many more!

[Chipmunk Janie]

Ah! All is coming clear. That was a good day at Barton. I remember meeting Shaggy, even though I was unaware of that pseudonym. I don't recall being introduced to any rodents. I'll have to do some detective work. :-)

[gpugh]

Hi Janie I am just passing this on from father , he says, no clicks, no brakes, he thinks your brakes are over adjusted there should be some slack in the cables also this will ensure you are actualy getting full rudder when you need it, he seems to recall there were a few incidents during spinning when people couldn't get full rudder because of mis adjusted brakes, it doesn't seem the right thing to do to make a tyre turn on concrete if it's not moving at all you might have stopped on a stone or something sharp which would damage it, I wouldn't try and turn the steering wheel on the car if I could help it without some forward movement jusy to be kind to the tyres


regards Gordon

[Chipmunk Janie]

Hello Gordon. I couldn't possibly argue with your father's words of experience. He can rest assured that, with my own particular Chipmunk, I always check that I have full rudder deflection, before I even switch on the engine. That is what is required for spin recovery. Perhaps my brakes are just shy of being over-adjusted. I'm not really technically qualified to comment on that, more's the pity.

[gpugh]

Hi Janie , it might be worth getting the adjustment checked by someone knows the Chipmunk system as I think it should always be necessary to have to apply at least a couple of clicks before any braking resistance is felt, the navy had a fleet of up to 12 chipmunks and all were different he says some needing 2 clicks some needing 4 or 5

regards Gordon

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I've always found that when correctly adjusted you can manually push the rudder from stop to stop on your pre-flight with no noticable resistance at all. Yet when it's on the stop it will apply some brake, as described in the posts above. The important thing is to ensure you get full and free rudder on the ground before you fly!

[gpugh]

Hi this thread seems to have been done before

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...-question.html

[Sam Rutherford]

45 Chippy hours (AAC), then about 500 hours Maule. I've never pre-set the brakes, almost always three point (even in very strong, 90° crosswinds), so far, never ground-looped (nearest I could find to a 'touch-wood' smiley!).

I've always found that a complete lack of hesitation to be nifty/heavy on the brakes (whilst holding the tail down) seems to have averted a couple of near disasters...

Sam.

[Thud105]

What a fascinating thread this has been. Input from those with hundreds of hours on type has been particularly informative and has – if anything - reinforced my opinions.
I believe the Chipmunk’s brake system to be inherently flawed. After all, imagine taking a group of early solo students out to a ramp full of identical trainers – and having to modify your briefing for each individual airframe!
Quote;- “the navy had a fleet of up to 12 chipmunks and all were different he says some needing 2 clicks some needing 4 or 5”

Or taxying an aircraft that has the ability to suddenly, unilaterally and without input from the pilot, apply sufficient brake to almost cause an incident!
Quote;- “I also once taxied in a strong wind and turned directly downwind. The wind blew the rudder to full deflection and that brake came on. The tail lifted but I quickly centralised the rudder and thankfully the tailcame down again! After that, I ensure I 'brace' my feet on the rudder taxying in a strong tailwind.”

Or the fact that incorrectly adjusted wheel brakes may make it impossible to recover from a spin.

Quote;- “I once pre-flighted ours after she'd undergone maintenance and noticed I could not push the rudder from stop to stop. It would move almost to either stop but could not be pushed further. I double checked the brakes were off (they were), then failed the aeroplane. Turned out the cables had been incorrectly adjusted. Not something to discover on attempting to recover from a spin!”

I rest my case.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Thud, don't be silly!

If you're looking for ways an aeroplane can make an ass of you, don't stop at dH's lovely creation. Every aeroplane that was ever built can do it, and it will if you'r not on top of it.

It's part of the aviator's art to be 'on top of it'. That's why we enjoy threads like this one!

Wasn't it the Tiger Club which had on the panel of each of their aircraft the information: "ALL AEROPLANES BITE FOOLS!"

[Thud105]

Agreed - but most don't automatically put the brakes on when you're taxying downwind. And as for each one of what would appear to be identical trainers requiring a seperate briefing........
All I'm saying is that I believe the brake system is inherently flawed - and as no one in the World currently makes an aircraft with that system well, you are all free to draw your own conclusions as to who got it right - dH or the RoW.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Agreed - but most don't automatically put the brakes on when you're taxying downwind.

Neither does the dHC1 if you use the correct technique; brace the rudder as for a tail slide.

Other aeroplanes have their own idiosycrases the pilot needs to know about.

And why would each need a seperate briefing? I could fly any standard Chipmunk in the world with no problems. I could taxy it, too! Indeed with only a handful of hours on 'our' Chippy, I went to Hawarden and flew G-BARS extensively when ours went in for some extended maintenance. Despite RS having an original metal prop and ours a Hoffman wooded one, it was no big deal for a then neophyte chippy pilot like me to climb out of one and go fly the other!

I've come across Cessna 150s with more handling differences (on the ground and in the air) aeroplane to aeroplane than I have among Chippys. Should that aeroplane demand a seperate briefing for each example?

I think you are just trying to wind me up!

[Thud105]

I think I'm beginning to understand why the UK aviation industry no longer exists!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I think you'll find C150s are American. It shows in the handling!

[gpugh]

I thought the Chipmunk was a Canadian design ? and you only have to make a note of a number of clicks required

[fireflybob]

Not sure whether this has been mentioned so far but also make sure after you're safely down on three points (after landing) that you keep the stick fully back during the rollout and this gives you more directional control.

My dad, Hector, who was an experienced instructor on type always insisted on this - I know as I learned to fly on the Chipmunk which is a fine flying machine, even in a crosswind.

That said once she starts to groundloop you have to be quick to stop it - I recall a landing after my second solo having just "relaxed" after what I thought was a super smooth landing. Being the good training machine she is/was I was taught a salutary lesson not to relax until down to taxi speed!