Chipmunk in a crosswind
 

I had a happy hour in a Chipmunk yesterday but on landing was presented with a 90 degree crosswind up to 15 knots. I have 35 hours on type but a lot of other tail wheel types in my log book over the years.

Normally in such conditions I set a couple notches of brake and wheel the aircraft on. The landing was perfect and the tail settled nicely but after a couple of seconds a gust caught me to the left. Correcting to the right brought on a series of yaws ending up with an embarrasing ground loop at around ten knots. No damage to the aircraft but a lot to my pride!!

What's the general consesus of how to handle limiting crosswinds in the Chippy. How do you do it and do you preset some brake before landing or trust in the brake lever?

Thanks for your answers.

BB;)

Never set brake before landing in a Chippy, except perhaps during the early phases of being checked out and you have yet to get used to the aeroplane.

I say this as someone who has flown one over the last 33 years, ever since gaining my PPL, and has never ever ground looped.

Setting brake will result in exactly the situation you describe; you have limited rudder travel due the brake being set, and at that limit you will apply the brake when what you really need is more rudder! Result? You arrest the incipient swing but when you run out of rudder and hit the brake... you set off a swing the other way - and so on until you ground loop!

You are depriving yourself of full rudder, and running into brake application in a harsh manner.

Leave the brakes unset. Use ALL the available rudder. If that's not enough (you hit the stop but the incipient swing hasn't ceased) just GENTLY pull back on the brake lever. You'll already have the relevant full rudder on, so only the requisite wheel will be braked, and in a much more controlled manner than running out of rudder and hitting harsh brake before the rudder bar has reached the stop!

In fact, I use my little finger, hooked around the brake lever, to geeeeently feeeed in juuuust enough brake (puuuull while you feeeel) to negate the incipient swing without starting one the other way! And all this while holding full anti-swing rudder. It really is the only way to do it! And very satisfying!

Think you're probably right Shaggy. I normally wouldn't set the brakes before landing but thought that with the crosswind on limits it might be a good idea...........or not, as proved by the result.

ISTR that the RAF used to teach 2 to 3 clicks.

On hard surface a click or 2 should always be useful in a crosswind as one transitions to taxy speed.

Well that's the idea that I was working on, but the aircraft had not flown since August and had it's six months check in between so the brakes were working well (for a change)

BB;)

Time to put to bed the 'RAF always taught' myth. Here's a post from a highly respected member of PPRuNe last time we had this discussion:

SSD, each to his own, however, 1/2 clicks were applied on take off, and never re set, therefore landings were generally conducted with 1/2 clicks on. I have several hundred hours on type, and have never ground looped either.

I think it depends on experience level, and what the PIC is comfortable with. Remember that a strong crosswind landing is always going to be a challenge in a tail dragger, and the Chippy with relatively large rudder area, will be very responsive to input. Start phaphing about with hand on brake, wondering whether to pull slightly or not, whilst attempting to keep straight etc etc, may be alright for you and your experience, but may not be an accomplishment for someone else with perhaps less taildragger time.

They did turn out a hell of a lot of pilots, apparently very well trained, on this type, with their methods;)

I've always wondered why DH used such a stupid, half-assed system in the first place!

It's an excellent system that works well once you're used to it. Much better than the system on the Yak52!

I do hope maxred isn't serious when he says Very sloppy technique, and downright dangerous! Any brake left on in flight can prevent spin recovery by limiting the available rudder travel - especially in a fully developed flattish Chippy spin where recovery isn't instant anyway!

And one of the pre-take off checks is 'brakes fully off'! (Why would anyone want brakes on for take off?? :confused: )

When I learned and flew Chipmunks (RAF) the clicks were used for taxying and landing if conditions were adverse but never take off or flight.

Yes one can squeeze the brake but that does mean moving hands from the throttle or stick.

I don't know the Yak but have a few hours in Chipmunks. IMHO its a silly system, what's wrong with toe - or even heel brakes?

SSD-We were specifically discussing crosswind techniques, where the pilots notes are clear in selecting brake differential for x winds.:ugh:

maxred, you said Crosswind or not, that's dangerous! A potential killer, in fact.

Also, see the above comment about the Chippy pilot's notes. A very valid point!

Use the left hand for the brake. When operating the brake lever in the (vanishingly rare) event of needing differential brake when full rudder is not enough, you are in the latter part of the roll-out, throttle shut, and can use your left (throttle) hand; RH is keeping the stick hard back of course.

What's wrong with the dH design? It works beautifully, all the way from 'brakes always on' (for when parked) to zero brake (any other time apart from taxy). No heavy brake pedals and mechanism on the rudder bar (as you have with toe brakes) makes it delightfully light to operate. And heel brakes get in the way for aeros!

I guess Boeing, Cessna, Douglas, Piper, Lockheed, North American and just about everyone else got it wrong then!
Sorry - but IMHO its just about as silly as using a Coffmann starter to crank a 145hp engine..............
Great handling though!

I flew the chippy for 40 hours at Elstree in 1965 on a flying scholarship, and about 60 hours in 1967 at an airfield just SE of Southampton. IIRC, we never set the brake in flight for any reaon at either school.

I bow to a Sky God..............:8

Not for non-aerobatic types. Clunky brakes are OK for them. :E

I ask again.. what is wrong with dH's method? Is it just that you're used to toe / heel brakes and so dH's isn't intuitive for you? It's an excellent system that contributes to that 'excellent handling' by keeping mass off the rudder bar, and once you are used to it it's far more flexible in use, with wider options in a taildragger that's agile on the ground as well as in the air, than any toe or heel brake.

I felt the same about the Yak52 when I first tried it; fully castoring nosewheel and mainwheel brakes operated by the rudder bar position in conjuction with a stick-mounted bicycle-type brake lever to active the appropriate air brake on the main wheel.

"Oh for a nice dH system" I thought as I hissed my way across the apron somewhat uncertainly. But after a short while flying the aeroplane I saw the sense of it - like the dH system, no clutter on the rudder bar keeps the controls light and low-mass, and no heel brakes in the way to hinder your feet. Nice system!

Give me either the Yak or the dH system any day above toe or heel brakes (and yes, I've plenty of experience of them in Cessnas, PA28s / 38s, Cubs, Citabrias and many more).

As far as I can recall, the T-6s, T-28s and P-51s that I flew were aerobatic.

I never said they weren't.

Well done SSD. In a couple of posts you have...........

Suggested that the whole RAF training, on the DH Chipmunk, was, well...wrong.
Suggested that the Test guys who wrote the notes, were, well.....wrong.
Suggested that the majority of US based and manufactured training types, were, well......poorly designed.
Suggested that everyone else who has an opinion, is well....wrong.

Good days work at the office I would suggest......LOL:\