Jet Provost
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Be Careful
Be very careful if you intend to join this group. I know the group has been taken to Court previously for breach of contract. Be very careful about what constitutes a 'training flight'.....consult LASORS as training flights must be carried out by the training captain or qualified instructor. Flying with a group member does not constitute as a training flight.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I really had no intentions of commenting on this thread, but I can't let EMMCCAN's initial post slide by.
Having read Unusual Attitude's somewhat less than positive appraisal, I feel that it was probably justified by neil's somewhat devious and economical reply (Perhaps he's a politician or an Accountant?)
Cost of fuel, a somewhat disingenuous statement, truth being, if you can't get a cut-price MOD uplift, (and you have to pay to go and get it...conveniently overlooked!)
Deadly silence about tank-contents before and after your sortie....at this sort of burn -rate, it's not difficult to imagine coming back with a £100 -or two difference...who pays? how? what happens if there's a "discrepancy2 between "last user" and "your flight" figures.
Full repaint and new engine.....very nice!...was that a cash-call to all members?... who made the decision? what happens if a low/no-hours member declines to meet the substantial cost of someone else's flying...or was this a "fait accompli"
Chance to deliver aircraft to an airshow, in exchange for free fuel...solo? pic? or just safety-pilot, covering P1's ass for nowt......and, of course, you can be pretty sure the costs don't end at fuel.
Sorry Neil, It's what you OMITTED to say, that disturbs me, though , to be even -handed, you have made a reply when you have been "called-out" on some of your "creative"
figures.
CAVEAT EMPTOR......disclaimer...As far as I'm aware, I do not know any of the participants in this thread, other than their presence here. I have NO interest in the subject aircraft or it's owners/operators. I have no vested interest, other than as a bystander who believes in open, honest and full transparent disclosure.
Having read Unusual Attitude's somewhat less than positive appraisal, I feel that it was probably justified by neil's somewhat devious and economical reply (Perhaps he's a politician or an Accountant?)
Cost of fuel, a somewhat disingenuous statement, truth being, if you can't get a cut-price MOD uplift, (and you have to pay to go and get it...conveniently overlooked!)
Deadly silence about tank-contents before and after your sortie....at this sort of burn -rate, it's not difficult to imagine coming back with a £100 -or two difference...who pays? how? what happens if there's a "discrepancy2 between "last user" and "your flight" figures.
Full repaint and new engine.....very nice!...was that a cash-call to all members?... who made the decision? what happens if a low/no-hours member declines to meet the substantial cost of someone else's flying...or was this a "fait accompli"
Chance to deliver aircraft to an airshow, in exchange for free fuel...solo? pic? or just safety-pilot, covering P1's ass for nowt......and, of course, you can be pretty sure the costs don't end at fuel.
Sorry Neil, It's what you OMITTED to say, that disturbs me, though , to be even -handed, you have made a reply when you have been "called-out" on some of your "creative"
figures.
CAVEAT EMPTOR......disclaimer...As far as I'm aware, I do not know any of the participants in this thread, other than their presence here. I have NO interest in the subject aircraft or it's owners/operators. I have no vested interest, other than as a bystander who believes in open, honest and full transparent disclosure.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Interesting this has raised its head again, I was going to reply to Neils last response some time ago however decided I really couldnt be bothered and that people, I'm sure, would figure things out for themselves.
You may also note that Neil is no longer flying the Hunter, I'm told, for similar reasons already alluded to in this thread.
CAVEAT EMPTOR indeed.
You may also note that Neil is no longer flying the Hunter, I'm told, for similar reasons already alluded to in this thread.
CAVEAT EMPTOR indeed.
Last edited by Unusual Attitude; 15th Jan 2014 at 14:44.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
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Oh the joys of ex members and running an aircraft group 
Chris/Des we are going back here in one case up to almost 8 years ago and a lot has changed in years and for the better i might add!
I can go over prices again if thats what people want but in short if you want to fly a jet aircraft in the UK with the least restrictions from an airspace and group rules point of view then you cant get cheaper then the Newcastle Jet Provost Group.
I invite and welcome any pilot to come up to Newcastle for a fully CAA approved trial flight in our JP you can see first hand our operation and of course costs.
You will never have more fun in an aircraft
Please feel free to email directly at [email protected] and i'll happily answer any questions in writing you may have or if you wish to arrange a trial we can do that to.
We are the longest running UK jet operator with a CAA approved training syllabus, we have 2 training captains very little controlled airspace and nothing but lots of beautiful scenery unlike a lot of other operators of the same type down south who have to spend 20 minute's just to find some clear airspace for some aeros!
[email protected]
It is also worth noting that the regulations around ex military aircraft are changing very soon in the UK to allow us to carry out commercial passenger flying this will have the knock on effect of increasing share costs as the aircraft value should (hopefully) increase but the upside should mean group members could get essentially "free flying" while they carry out a passenger flight on behalf of the group subject to approval of course but as we will become "self regulating" this shouldn't be too much of a problem only time will tell, either way income into the group = reduced group costs and safer current pilots
Neil
Ps: UA your info you alluded to on the Hunter is duff.
Chris/Des we are going back here in one case up to almost 8 years ago and a lot has changed in years and for the better i might add!
I can go over prices again if thats what people want but in short if you want to fly a jet aircraft in the UK with the least restrictions from an airspace and group rules point of view then you cant get cheaper then the Newcastle Jet Provost Group.
I invite and welcome any pilot to come up to Newcastle for a fully CAA approved trial flight in our JP you can see first hand our operation and of course costs.
You will never have more fun in an aircraft
Please feel free to email directly at [email protected] and i'll happily answer any questions in writing you may have or if you wish to arrange a trial we can do that to.
We are the longest running UK jet operator with a CAA approved training syllabus, we have 2 training captains very little controlled airspace and nothing but lots of beautiful scenery unlike a lot of other operators of the same type down south who have to spend 20 minute's just to find some clear airspace for some aeros!
[email protected]
It is also worth noting that the regulations around ex military aircraft are changing very soon in the UK to allow us to carry out commercial passenger flying this will have the knock on effect of increasing share costs as the aircraft value should (hopefully) increase but the upside should mean group members could get essentially "free flying" while they carry out a passenger flight on behalf of the group
subject to approval of course but as we will become "self regulating" this shouldn't be too much of a problem only time will tell, either way income into the group = reduced group costs and safer current pilots Neil
Ps: UA your info you alluded to on the Hunter is duff.
Join Date: Aug 2023
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I'll give you my experience of being in the group for 2 years and I wont sugar coat it......
Firstly, someone is telling you porkies on the fuel cost, JP3 burns about 500-600 litres an hour at probably about 90p per litre in todays money for JetA1. When I was flying it 5 or 6 years ago the fuel price was about 40-50p per litre and I was usually £350-£400 an hour inc landing fees which were about £50 per landing at Newcastle, probably more by now.
Doing circuits at Carlisle was a bit better but it was something like 3 or 4 landings for £100. At todays fuel prices an hour of circuits (low level + lots of drag = lots of fuel burn) will probably stand you £700+ inc landings depending on how many you do.
Some other things I would add about the group.....
- Constantly moving goalposts with regards hour requirements for being allowed to carry pax, make sure you get this confirmed in a written agreement first so it cant be changed.
- Slim to zero chance of getting your £1k back and legal threats to get you to keep paying your monthly fees even after you have 'donated' your share back to the group, as per the agreement.
- Extremely limited availablity of the aircraft during summer weekends as it does the airshow season.
- Flying cost includes NO maintenance cost or engine fund, if something breaks you all chip in, thats from the moment you join whether you've flown it or not.
- All maintenance costs being split equally regardless of hours flown, tends to suit one member in particular who does more flying than the rest of the group put together.
- Group financial structure that relies on a continual flow of members leaving and 'donating' their £1000 share back to the group.
I've no axe to grind and had fun flying 'blunty' during my time in the group but make sure you do your own research on the costs, the group accounts, the number of members in the group and the throughput of members over the last few years. A happy / stable group generally has a very small turnover of members, a high throughput is a sign that not all is well.
As for flying it, its not a difficult thing to fly at all and not that demanding, a few more systems to consider than your average spam-can but its fun enough if you can handle the fuel costs! Typical speeds are about 180kts econ cruise, 220kts if your not so fussed burning fuel and max chat S&L on the deck is about 270kts.
Regards
UA
Firstly, someone is telling you porkies on the fuel cost, JP3 burns about 500-600 litres an hour at probably about 90p per litre in todays money for JetA1. When I was flying it 5 or 6 years ago the fuel price was about 40-50p per litre and I was usually £350-£400 an hour inc landing fees which were about £50 per landing at Newcastle, probably more by now.
Doing circuits at Carlisle was a bit better but it was something like 3 or 4 landings for £100. At todays fuel prices an hour of circuits (low level + lots of drag = lots of fuel burn) will probably stand you £700+ inc landings depending on how many you do.
Some other things I would add about the group.....
- Constantly moving goalposts with regards hour requirements for being allowed to carry pax, make sure you get this confirmed in a written agreement first so it cant be changed.
- Slim to zero chance of getting your £1k back and legal threats to get you to keep paying your monthly fees even after you have 'donated' your share back to the group, as per the agreement.
- Extremely limited availablity of the aircraft during summer weekends as it does the airshow season.
- Flying cost includes NO maintenance cost or engine fund, if something breaks you all chip in, thats from the moment you join whether you've flown it or not.
- All maintenance costs being split equally regardless of hours flown, tends to suit one member in particular who does more flying than the rest of the group put together.
- Group financial structure that relies on a continual flow of members leaving and 'donating' their £1000 share back to the group.
I've no axe to grind and had fun flying 'blunty' during my time in the group but make sure you do your own research on the costs, the group accounts, the number of members in the group and the throughput of members over the last few years. A happy / stable group generally has a very small turnover of members, a high throughput is a sign that not all is well.
As for flying it, its not a difficult thing to fly at all and not that demanding, a few more systems to consider than your average spam-can but its fun enough if you can handle the fuel costs! Typical speeds are about 180kts econ cruise, 220kts if your not so fussed burning fuel and max chat S&L on the deck is about 270kts.
Regards
UA
'Newcastle' Jet Provost group.
Hi, folks.
I just popped my head back in here, after a few years R&R, and noticed that this old thread has been revived.
Sad to see again all the negative comments from the long past, but pleased to add that, for years now, this group been taken over by some of the newer members, and run very differently. The leader of the group is now Neil Charlton. (Not the same Neil!).
I was asked to become the Chief Pilot/CFI after the change, and so I write with some knowledge of the present situation.
Although still operating under the original 'Newcastle Jet Provost Group' name, the aircraft is now based at Leeds East (It will always be Church Fenton to me!).
I can tell you that it uses about 1200lbs(600lt) of JetA1 fuel an hour, which, as I write this, is 97p / Litre, here at CF. This can be shared between the occupants just like any other aircraft. It's left full, and users just refill it after their flight.
I'm happy to answer any questions about the aircraft, either here, or in PMs, and for info about the new group, you can call Des Hart (Probably the only original group member left) on 07393 280310
MJ
I just popped my head back in here, after a few years R&R, and noticed that this old thread has been revived.
Sad to see again all the negative comments from the long past, but pleased to add that, for years now, this group been taken over by some of the newer members, and run very differently. The leader of the group is now Neil Charlton. (Not the same Neil!).
I was asked to become the Chief Pilot/CFI after the change, and so I write with some knowledge of the present situation.
Although still operating under the original 'Newcastle Jet Provost Group' name, the aircraft is now based at Leeds East (It will always be Church Fenton to me!).
I can tell you that it uses about 1200lbs(600lt) of JetA1 fuel an hour, which, as I write this, is 97p / Litre, here at CF. This can be shared between the occupants just like any other aircraft. It's left full, and users just refill it after their flight.
I'm happy to answer any questions about the aircraft, either here, or in PMs, and for info about the new group, you can call Des Hart (Probably the only original group member left) on 07393 280310
MJ
Last edited by Mach Jump; 1st Sep 2023 at 11:09. Reason: Photo added.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Well this thread is a blast from the past but since its live again I'll provide a bit of an update.
Firstly emmccan is no longer involved with the group and no longer flying the JP or anything else that isn't attached to a 240v wall socket after a run in with a CAA trapper, I'll spare you the details.
After the departure of emmccan I was approached by the remaining 2 or 3 members to rejoin the group and help get it back on its feet which has taken a lot of hard work by all involved given the mess that was left. As MJ (the groups Chief pilot) has pointed out, XM479 now has a fantastic home at Leeds East / Church Fenton and is operated by a well run, well financed group of individuals who are all enthusiastic about keeping her flying for many years to come. She's now in the best airworthiness condition I can remember in the 19 or so years I've been flying her on and off.
Yes we do have a share or possibly 2 available so if you are interested please don't let the history of the group put you off, the individual causing the issues was removed several years ago and we are now in a very good place with the jet finally!
Regards
UA
Firstly emmccan is no longer involved with the group and no longer flying the JP or anything else that isn't attached to a 240v wall socket after a run in with a CAA trapper, I'll spare you the details.
After the departure of emmccan I was approached by the remaining 2 or 3 members to rejoin the group and help get it back on its feet which has taken a lot of hard work by all involved given the mess that was left. As MJ (the groups Chief pilot) has pointed out, XM479 now has a fantastic home at Leeds East / Church Fenton and is operated by a well run, well financed group of individuals who are all enthusiastic about keeping her flying for many years to come. She's now in the best airworthiness condition I can remember in the 19 or so years I've been flying her on and off.
Yes we do have a share or possibly 2 available so if you are interested please don't let the history of the group put you off, the individual causing the issues was removed several years ago and we are now in a very good place with the jet finally!
Regards
UA
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