Finals

[Jan Olieslagers]

Just one more UK peculiarity. Picturesque, and not really problematic.

[BackPacker]

Well, as you can be both on a left-hand final and a right-hand final simultaneously, the plural would make sense, not?

[Pilot DAR]

Finals = Final preparations (plural) to land

I can see the logic of that. But, is it the preparedness to land, from a checklist point of view, or the position in the circuit, which is being reported by the use of the term "finals"?

The 'with you' that is all but endemic in the US is annoying. So superfluous. They're not 'with' them in the sense of being in the same room, and that they're 'with' them on the frequency is self evident by their transmission.

I agree that this may not be a formally accepted phraseology, but yes, it sure is common here. I would expect that it is a contraction of: "[I am now communicating] with you" (I was just communicating with someone else, and was handed over to you, so here I am.). This would only be evident to the new controller because of the transmission.

I have not flown enough in Europe to have formed an opinion, but in some airspace in North America, it's so busy, you're lucky to squeeze in "XXX Tower NNZ with you". That, as an initial contact, seems to be enough that the controller will call you back when they have time. In my opinion, acknowledging the entry of an aircraft into the airspace might not be as urgent as giving a landing clearance or such, and therefore all the supplementary details can wait until the controller is ready to receive them.

For other airspace I enter, I know that the controller is so bored, I entertain myself by giving very detailed initial contacts with all the appropriate information provided. I know he was waiting pen in hand for someone to call in!

Just my take on it.....

[Shoestring Flyer]

It is, Final to land or Final, definitely not Finals!....just so annoying to hear it.

Thread drift but another word that seems to now have travelled the atlantic is 'gotten'...There is no such word in the English language as 'gotten'...grrr!

[BackPacker]

XXX Tower NNZ with you

I think there's a hidden message here as well. A call "XXX Tower NNZ with you", "XXX Center NNZ FL300 inbound MASTI", "XXX Tower NNZ established localizer 24" or something along those lines, also conveys the message that a normal, expected handover from another frequency is in progress. The controller may even have the flight strip in front of him already. He knows that the pilot will simply continue doing whatever the previous controller cleared him to do and there's no rush to acknowledge his presence, issue instructions, clearances or whatever.

In contrast, "XXX Tower NNZ" typically seems to mean "I want to talk to you because I've got a complicated request that I don't want to transmit in my initial call". So it may prompt the tower to get back to you earlier than in the previous case. After which you've got to tell the controller that you've got nothing to tell or ask them.

[tmmorris]

It seems logical that the first and last circuit calls are 'initials' and 'finals'.

Tim

[stiknruda]

Initials

For me that is the call that me formation leader gives when he has taken me to the place where I am on my initial point for final to land. We may wazz around doing a run and break but in reality it is probably my first opportunity to orientate myself with the ground features and runway....

up to that point my entire focus has been keeping station with Lead....

Lead needs good situational awareness - for if he experiences engine failure, I do expect him to tell me where we are before he plummets towards terra firma. I'd expect us to be on or near track but have no idea where we are!!

Stik

[jxk]

It is, Final to land or Final, definitely not Finals!....just so annoying to hear it.

Calm down dear - it's only a word!

[Tinstaafl]

You mean 'It's only a words'?

[Crash one]

Not even that, ir's only an s

[Pilot.Lyons]

I agree with shoestringer

[Pilot.Lyons]

Sorry shoe string flyer! Hehe looked like i was being lazy a mixing words to create my own!

Final to land.... I only need one attempt

[douglasheld]

Why add the S?

This is in English, the degentive case which is used in informal language to assign some diminuation or familiarity to a thing. I'm an American in the UK and I find this used more often here than in the US.

Examples:
Tesco -> Tescos
Holiday -> hols
Final -> finals

[goldeneaglepilot]

Perhaps the plural is used due to the call for "short finals" or long "finals" It seems to imply a two stage distance based call on final approach.

Often the call gets made as "finals full stop" or "finals to roll" or finals touch and go" At least it leaves aircraft on base leg an idea of what your doing.

To throw more into the pot you will also hear people add the words "three greens" into the final's call to demonstrate that they have checked the gear is down and showing locked on a retractable.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Examples:
Tesco -> Tescos
Holiday -> hols
Final -> finals

Yes well, those are three completely different cases, aren't they:

(1) It's "Tesco's", not "Tescos", and it's short for "Tesco's shop". Now there isn't a Mr Tesco, but the usage is the same as saying "Blogg's" to be short for "Mr Blogg's shop".

(2) "Hols" is short for "holidays", no problem there.

(3) "Finals" is just wrong. (And I'm not sure I've ever noticed hearing it on the radio, actually.)

[Pilot.Lyons]

Im with wombat on this one

[CharlieDeltaUK]

Simples...

[rans6andrew]

why is this topic dragging on so?

Aviation Law has it sorted, page 5 of my Trevor Thom, "An aircraft on final approach (Yes, final approach, SINGULAR) has right of way over others in flight or on the surface.

Or, as my flying instructor would put it, "what is that finals boll**ks?, it's final, short for final approach, how can that be plural?"

Rans6....

[mikehallam]

Well Ran6andrew you've almost got me beat but...........

Precedence and quantity from at least WWII is for the 's'.

mike hallam.

p.s don't forget to read RanMail !

[rans6andrew]

Rasmail, never miss it