Glider Tugging
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and an airline pilot. Its not always the inexperienced ones you have to watch out for!
You have to watch those airline pilots. I took a highly experienced retired BA long haul captain for a flight in the Chippy. We were climbing out of Liverpool over the Mersey, him flying from the back; "They don't go up very well, these, do they?" he observed.
"They do if you use the rudder", I replied, applying a bootful of left rudder to move the ball off the left stop in its tube. It went up then!
"Ah. It's years since I've had to use rudder", he replied.
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I would be interested in both glider and tug pilots stories of things that commonly go wrong, and how they are dealt with, if anyone is happy to relate?
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Hello, R44. I started in gliders, went on to convert a silver certificate into a PPL, have done a fair bit of tugging over the years. If you definitely prefer to fly something noisy around the sky, why may as well stick to that discipline....but the real challenge for me has always been the cross country in a glider; if you get it wrong you visit a farmer....no harm done. If you get it wrong in a power plane, its can be very expensive, and the thought of all that petrol in the wing tanks makes me nervous....
The whole scene at a busy gliding club requires tug pilots who are very very switched on. Some clubs are airtow only, others combine winch and airtow, which can make for exciting moments. Giving way to gliders has to take priority, and they can all come in to land at once! Eyes on stalks all the time a requirement. So sign up for a course at an airtow club, become familiar with the environment. It still won't cost as much as maintaining a private aircraft.
You want an interesting story? I was tugging at a competition at Weston on the Green; it had been Notamed and all that. Pulling up an ASW19, I saw a twin presumably climbing out of Oxford, heading straight for me. So as the rules of the air require, I turned right. The twin TURNED LEFT! Only thing left was to dive, and the glider behind me hung on throughout, which was the smart thing to do, presenting one target instead of two to the opposition.
The glider pilot said later he wanted his money's worth, having paid for a 2,000 foot tow.....
The whole scene at a busy gliding club requires tug pilots who are very very switched on. Some clubs are airtow only, others combine winch and airtow, which can make for exciting moments. Giving way to gliders has to take priority, and they can all come in to land at once! Eyes on stalks all the time a requirement. So sign up for a course at an airtow club, become familiar with the environment. It still won't cost as much as maintaining a private aircraft.
You want an interesting story? I was tugging at a competition at Weston on the Green; it had been Notamed and all that. Pulling up an ASW19, I saw a twin presumably climbing out of Oxford, heading straight for me. So as the rules of the air require, I turned right. The twin TURNED LEFT! Only thing left was to dive, and the glider behind me hung on throughout, which was the smart thing to do, presenting one target instead of two to the opposition.
The glider pilot said later he wanted his money's worth, having paid for a 2,000 foot tow.....
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I would be interested in both glider and tug pilots stories of things that commonly go wrong, and how they are dealt with, if anyone is happy to relate?
But generally the only complaint glider pilots ever have about tuggies is they are towed to dead areas of the sky, rather than the booming bit they wanted.
From the tug end, the big worry is the glider getting high and stalling the tug - this can be fatal. Glider airbrakes popping open on tow is alarming because you can barely climb, but the approved technique is to drag the idiot to height (I confess, I've been that idiot once, though only for a few seconds) and then leave him or her to work out why the ground is approaching so rapidly - this one is tedious but generally not unsafe.
Tug pilots get used to gliders being in strange positions - during my Basic Instructor training I was made to formate on the tug's wingtip while still attached and then return to the normal tow position. A bit of a jerk on the rope that time, but experienced tuggies seem not to notice their tails being pulled round the sky.
I suspect that much of what a tug pilot experiences would seem quite alarming to a normal PPL
I think Mary towed me a few years ago when I was visiting Shenington (Super Cub?), but I doubt she recalls the experience because I flew fairly well that day.
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Why can't the glider pilot instruct the tuggie where to take them, on the radio? It seems odd to be at the whim of the tug pilot as to which bit of the sky he/she takes you to.
Why can't the glider pilot instruct the tuggie where to take them, on the radio? It seems odd to be at the whim of the tug pilot as to which bit of the sky he/she takes you to.
A good tuggie will do this without prompting, much like arranging to cross the edge of a thermal with other gliders in such a way that it doesn't conflict with them and allows the towed glider to sample the lift before committing to a release.
Some would argue that using the radio on tow is an unnecessary distraction but IMHO if you can't follow the tug while transmitting a short sentence, you shouldn't be there at all.
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A lot depends of course who you have on tow. An experienced glider pilot will probably have a good idea where they want to be towed and will be more inclined to say so by radio. A lesser experienced glider pilot will generally be more reliant on the tuggie to take them to lift. I also find the lesser experienced or the newly qualified glider pilots will have a certain reluctance to use the radio until they get their confidence with it. It also depends on the type of lift - if its just a 1000' lob onto the ridge or a 2000' launch to the nearest building thermal or cloud street then theres really no need to be steering a course to the tug pilot. Wave can be a little different as the actual lift isnt always clearly marked. Quite often it will involve a long or high tow(sometimes 4000' to 5000') to contact it. In those circumstances there's more chance of communication between the glider and the tug. If the wave is working well however in a particular spot and has been for some time then obviously no need to steer the tuggie a course, just hang on til they drop you where they dropped everyone else!
A good tuggie is of course someone with gliding experience. Hence most clubs tend to prefer someone with at least a bronze or silver C badge. Some insurers will also specify a minimum gliding experience level for tuggies.
Tugging can also be hard work at times. On a good soaring day, launching can be pretty relentless. I usually stuff my sandwich and water bottle down the side of the seat first thing as there'll be no time by lunchtime to stop for a break, things will just be getting into full swing by then. Good fun though...many a happy day flying the tug. Dont do as much as I used to but enough to keep the hand in. I did parachute flying at one time too....not nearly as satisfying as tugging.....note sure why, perhaps its just that gliding is my first love in flying.
A good tuggie is of course someone with gliding experience. Hence most clubs tend to prefer someone with at least a bronze or silver C badge. Some insurers will also specify a minimum gliding experience level for tuggies.
Tugging can also be hard work at times. On a good soaring day, launching can be pretty relentless. I usually stuff my sandwich and water bottle down the side of the seat first thing as there'll be no time by lunchtime to stop for a break, things will just be getting into full swing by then. Good fun though...many a happy day flying the tug. Dont do as much as I used to but enough to keep the hand in. I did parachute flying at one time too....not nearly as satisfying as tugging.....note sure why, perhaps its just that gliding is my first love in flying.
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A friend of mine joined my gliding club with a PPL. He still flies power but now he has a part-share of a syndicated glider he will get the tug out if it's not his day. He had to do tailwheel conversion and so on, and had his Silver.
Had an interesting tow when learning it, only one magneto was on apparently as the instructor & I got a very close look at the trees at the end of the airfield. Also had what could have been nasty the first tow in my own glider - not quite enough forward trim, it shot up on taking to the air and I pio'd along behind the tug for what felt like forever.
Had an interesting tow when learning it, only one magneto was on apparently as the instructor & I got a very close look at the trees at the end of the airfield. Also had what could have been nasty the first tow in my own glider - not quite enough forward trim, it shot up on taking to the air and I pio'd along behind the tug for what felt like forever.
I suppose we have all had some interesting tows.
In the late 80's - although I was a reasonably experienced glider pilot - it was predominantly winch experience.
While my then GF was doing an SLMG course I started helping out on the 'proper' gliding course and eventually the course inst asked me if I wanted to do some flying -'twisted my arm' and he sent me solo after 2 dual tows (I had done some previously).
So there I am sitting in the K13 on my own when the Tuggie saunters up and asks ''Hows your thermalling on tow ''?
'I'll give it a go says I !'
Actually it was good fun....the tug of course was an 'Ahhh Condor'
Good job it was a long flat rwy LOL
In the late 80's - although I was a reasonably experienced glider pilot - it was predominantly winch experience.
While my then GF was doing an SLMG course I started helping out on the 'proper' gliding course and eventually the course inst asked me if I wanted to do some flying -'twisted my arm' and he sent me solo after 2 dual tows (I had done some previously).
So there I am sitting in the K13 on my own when the Tuggie saunters up and asks ''Hows your thermalling on tow ''?
'I'll give it a go says I !'
Actually it was good fun....the tug of course was an 'Ahhh Condor'
Good job it was a long flat rwy LOL
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I've never tugged, but I've done some gliding (winch site, but did aerotows on my initial course at Nympsfield). Parachute dropping I did for a few years and that can either be boring (too windy, sit on the ground all day watching parachute videos) or relentless when conditions are good.
I remember one day I'd flown the aeroplane out from Manchester to the club and woken them up with a low pass past the tower, landed, then sat on the ground all day as the wind was gusting 25 kts. Come 5 o'clock the free-fallers said "come on Shaggy, we're giving it a go". Well, one landed in the canal, another about 2 miles away... Mad!
Those days it was static line drops with the studes - there's few tales I can tell about that but it'd be off thread.
In the end the club was closed after a fatal accident (thankfully on a weekend I wasn't there), but by then I'd had enough of flying but being unable to choose where to go and when.
I remember one day I'd flown the aeroplane out from Manchester to the club and woken them up with a low pass past the tower, landed, then sat on the ground all day as the wind was gusting 25 kts. Come 5 o'clock the free-fallers said "come on Shaggy, we're giving it a go". Well, one landed in the canal, another about 2 miles away... Mad!
Those days it was static line drops with the studes - there's few tales I can tell about that but it'd be off thread.
In the end the club was closed after a fatal accident (thankfully on a weekend I wasn't there), but by then I'd had enough of flying but being unable to choose where to go and when.
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Well, I inflicted my flying on a tug pilot today, being well out of position for a while.
It is a training/checking exercise we do, often called boxing the wake. Starting at a safe height (1000’ plus) while on tow, from a normal tow position while climbing – slightly below the tug but above its wake or slipstream - we eased down through the wake to well below normal tow position. I understand that this puts the tow plane well out of trim.
Then move laterally, well out to one side. Now tuggie has to use a lot of rudder as well as elevator.
Now move up to level with or higher than tug. Then across to the other side. Then down to low tow position, but still out to that side. Then back to dead behind, but still in low tow. Finally up through the slipstream again to normal tow position.
A good exercise in control for a glider pilot regaining currency after an 8 month lay-off. I don’t know if tug pilots enjoy this or endure it. Usually the instructor tells them beforehand that some out-of-position work will be done, but today it was a spur of the moment thing, and we had no radio in the glider so he only found out when it happened.
All in a tug pilot’s day’s work.
Chris N.
It is a training/checking exercise we do, often called boxing the wake. Starting at a safe height (1000’ plus) while on tow, from a normal tow position while climbing – slightly below the tug but above its wake or slipstream - we eased down through the wake to well below normal tow position. I understand that this puts the tow plane well out of trim.
Then move laterally, well out to one side. Now tuggie has to use a lot of rudder as well as elevator.
Now move up to level with or higher than tug. Then across to the other side. Then down to low tow position, but still out to that side. Then back to dead behind, but still in low tow. Finally up through the slipstream again to normal tow position.
A good exercise in control for a glider pilot regaining currency after an 8 month lay-off. I don’t know if tug pilots enjoy this or endure it. Usually the instructor tells them beforehand that some out-of-position work will be done, but today it was a spur of the moment thing, and we had no radio in the glider so he only found out when it happened.
All in a tug pilot’s day’s work.
Chris N.
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ChrisN - Many thanks for your email - great stuff.
To all the other replies thanks also, its great reading, and maybe I will
go for an hour in a glider in the next couple of weeks to refresh my memory.
Wycombe is just up the road, and I do know a keen glider pilot who
has his aircraft based there.
To all the other replies thanks also, its great reading, and maybe I will
go for an hour in a glider in the next couple of weeks to refresh my memory.
Wycombe is just up the road, and I do know a keen glider pilot who
has his aircraft based there.
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chris n, Booker is an all aerotow club. In fact that's where I learned to fly. Since then transferred to a club near Banbury, and now I am in my declining rather than ascending years....
Can't resist another yarn. Instructor told me that this would be the last launch for a chap on an intensive course, and asked me to tow the two seater up to one thousand feet over the airfield, rather than the usual two thousand (actually, glider pilots, nobody insists you let go at 2,000, I strongly recommend you wait until you are in LIFT before you let go....the erks who let go at precisely 2,000 and find themselves in heavy sinking air, have just wasted their hard earned money).
However, on this day I suffered brain failure, and completely forgot the gliding instructor had requested the 1,000 foot tow, and after dragging it into the air, carried on northward without remembering to turn back over the airfield....got a couple of miles away, and at one thousand feet, the GLIDER RELEASED!
O heck! I forgot to turn back! There was no way the glider could get back to the airfield, not high enough and too far away. I circled above and watched events unfold, expecting to have to return and inform the club that a field retrieve would be required....
The two seater turned and headed back. Getting low. getting lower....lower....and in the way, our ridge....they arrived just below the treetops on the ridge.....and scraped and scraped and scraped away......and climbed, just agonisingly slowly, just just enough to lob in to the airfield downwind....(there hadn't been much wind anyhow...not really a day ridge soaring, but it does kick off the odd thermal).
I apologised and said how foolish I felt...the instructor said "Not as foolish as I felt when I pulled off at one thousand feet and realised we had a problem..." Cost me a few beers, that did.
Can't resist another yarn. Instructor told me that this would be the last launch for a chap on an intensive course, and asked me to tow the two seater up to one thousand feet over the airfield, rather than the usual two thousand (actually, glider pilots, nobody insists you let go at 2,000, I strongly recommend you wait until you are in LIFT before you let go....the erks who let go at precisely 2,000 and find themselves in heavy sinking air, have just wasted their hard earned money).
However, on this day I suffered brain failure, and completely forgot the gliding instructor had requested the 1,000 foot tow, and after dragging it into the air, carried on northward without remembering to turn back over the airfield....got a couple of miles away, and at one thousand feet, the GLIDER RELEASED!
O heck! I forgot to turn back! There was no way the glider could get back to the airfield, not high enough and too far away. I circled above and watched events unfold, expecting to have to return and inform the club that a field retrieve would be required....
The two seater turned and headed back. Getting low. getting lower....lower....and in the way, our ridge....they arrived just below the treetops on the ridge.....and scraped and scraped and scraped away......and climbed, just agonisingly slowly, just just enough to lob in to the airfield downwind....(there hadn't been much wind anyhow...not really a day ridge soaring, but it does kick off the odd thermal).
I apologised and said how foolish I felt...the instructor said "Not as foolish as I felt when I pulled off at one thousand feet and realised we had a problem..." Cost me a few beers, that did.
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Mary, I am well aware that Booker is an all aerotow club, having flown gliders, including competing in a regionals, there before you started gliding, and before your own present club was formed.
I don’t expect to fly there again, but the OP, r44heli is thinking of going there.
Chris N (BGA Safety committee member, BGA Development committee member, past Vice Chairman and Exec committee member of the BGA)
I don’t expect to fly there again, but the OP, r44heli is thinking of going there.
Chris N (BGA Safety committee member, BGA Development committee member, past Vice Chairman and Exec committee member of the BGA)
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I have no idea why anyone should want to be on the other end of a tow rope to a glider.
The idea is full of potental problems most of these would result in death.
As to the population of gliding clubs...... individualy glider pilots are usuly OK but get them together and they become very rude to any one who is not a glider pilot. I dont think I could think of anywere more unwelcoming to a powered aircraft pilot than a gliding club.
The idea is full of potental problems most of these would result in death.
As to the population of gliding clubs...... individualy glider pilots are usuly OK but get them together and they become very rude to any one who is not a glider pilot. I dont think I could think of anywere more unwelcoming to a powered aircraft pilot than a gliding club.
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? I would say 25% of the pilots at my club are powered as well. I've never experienced any of what you say. Depends where you go.
I've been to powered fields in a powered a/c and the membership have been less than welcoming also.
I've been to powered fields in a powered a/c and the membership have been less than welcoming also.
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<snip>
As to the population of gliding clubs...... individualy glider pilots are usuly OK but get them together and they become very rude to any one who is not a glider pilot. I dont think I could think of anywere more unwelcoming to a powered aircraft pilot than a gliding club.
As to the population of gliding clubs...... individualy glider pilots are usuly OK but get them together and they become very rude to any one who is not a glider pilot. I dont think I could think of anywere more unwelcoming to a powered aircraft pilot than a gliding club.
Mind you most of the takers not givers seem to have skin like a rhino.
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The tug pilot who towed me up (3 times) on Saturday had never been gliding until last August. He is a commercial pilot, former FJ pilot and instructor in the RAF. Within 6 weekends of coming to our club, he had: been accepted as a tug pilot; gone solo in gliders; and bought his own solo glider.
Before towing me on Saturday, he had been towed up by somebody else to do some of the pre-cross country (“Bronze”) checks. In spite of his power experience, he has no problems accepting that gliding has some different things to learn and be checked out for, and he is doing what he needs to in good spirit. He is one of three (I think) power pilots who joined us last year after posts on this forum and elsewhere advising that we welcome those who want to convert.
If a power pilot finds that every gliding club he goes to is unwelcoming, maybe he needs to look in a mirror to see where the attitude problem lies. Ditto a glider pilot who finds power clubs unwelcoming. My experience when I have landed in a glider at GA aerodromes, farm strips, and even a microlight site, has never been hostile, often very friendly, though a few were not particularly welcoming – but they had not asked me to go there, I had arrived and landed when thermals stopped and I could not reach my original intended landing site.
Not all humans welcome strangers, even more so if they are “different” in some way. It is a human characteristic. It is up to the incomer to do one’s best to make such encounters as happy as possible. Usually it works if the effort is there, occasionally not.
Chris N
Before towing me on Saturday, he had been towed up by somebody else to do some of the pre-cross country (“Bronze”) checks. In spite of his power experience, he has no problems accepting that gliding has some different things to learn and be checked out for, and he is doing what he needs to in good spirit. He is one of three (I think) power pilots who joined us last year after posts on this forum and elsewhere advising that we welcome those who want to convert.
If a power pilot finds that every gliding club he goes to is unwelcoming, maybe he needs to look in a mirror to see where the attitude problem lies. Ditto a glider pilot who finds power clubs unwelcoming. My experience when I have landed in a glider at GA aerodromes, farm strips, and even a microlight site, has never been hostile, often very friendly, though a few were not particularly welcoming – but they had not asked me to go there, I had arrived and landed when thermals stopped and I could not reach my original intended landing site.
Not all humans welcome strangers, even more so if they are “different” in some way. It is a human characteristic. It is up to the incomer to do one’s best to make such encounters as happy as possible. Usually it works if the effort is there, occasionally not.
Chris N
There is too much them and us in light aviation, period.
I currently fly old GA, modern GA, and flexwing microlights - in the past I've done a lot of 3-axis microlight flying, and a bit of gliding.
I've had GA airfields turn me down because I was flying a microlight, modern GA pilots decline a go in an old taildragger as irrelevant, had a very hostile reception for turning up powered at a gliding club (despite PPR, etc.), and seen a microlight pilot drummed out of a microlight airfield because he'd dared to get an NPPL and buy a light aeroplane.
It's clearly commonplace because numerous occasions where a glider has diverted into my favourite microlight club, and I've gone up with my customary greeting of "welcome to XXXX, kettle's on, can I help with anything apart from pushing your glider off the runway", the first thing I usually see on the pilot's face is relief.
And we should not tolerate it. In our own clubs we should stamp firmly on anybody who shows this sort of behaviour - welcome everybody, whatever they fly. Help them fit in, and when they screw up an break local rules, be nice about it, just make sure they know what they did and how not to do it again.
Equally, turn up somewhere different, and there's a moral imperative to understand that environment and fit in. We can all make the effort to do that.
G
I currently fly old GA, modern GA, and flexwing microlights - in the past I've done a lot of 3-axis microlight flying, and a bit of gliding.
I've had GA airfields turn me down because I was flying a microlight, modern GA pilots decline a go in an old taildragger as irrelevant, had a very hostile reception for turning up powered at a gliding club (despite PPR, etc.), and seen a microlight pilot drummed out of a microlight airfield because he'd dared to get an NPPL and buy a light aeroplane.
It's clearly commonplace because numerous occasions where a glider has diverted into my favourite microlight club, and I've gone up with my customary greeting of "welcome to XXXX, kettle's on, can I help with anything apart from pushing your glider off the runway", the first thing I usually see on the pilot's face is relief.
And we should not tolerate it. In our own clubs we should stamp firmly on anybody who shows this sort of behaviour - welcome everybody, whatever they fly. Help them fit in, and when they screw up an break local rules, be nice about it, just make sure they know what they did and how not to do it again.
Equally, turn up somewhere different, and there's a moral imperative to understand that environment and fit in. We can all make the effort to do that.
G