concerning mistakes
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concerning mistakes
Pilots have one tremendous advantage over the rest of humanity. They have an overriding interest in correcting their own mistakes! You can if you wish search articles on the psychology of finding out you are wrong about something you hold dear, and how hard it is to change.
So do pilots carry that particular attitude into other areas of their lives? If they do, they double the benefit gained from their expensive training. Thoughts?
So do pilots carry that particular attitude into other areas of their lives? If they do, they double the benefit gained from their expensive training. Thoughts?
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As a pilot, I regularly read the accident reports, to try and prevent such accidents happening to myself.
I really wish the same type of reports were readily available for road accidents, so we could all better educate ourselves to the real dangers out there.
I really wish the same type of reports were readily available for road accidents, so we could all better educate ourselves to the real dangers out there.
Depends upon what you mean by "mistake".
I often feel that in both my private and professional lives, people keep criticising me, or I keep spotting stuff that needs improving. I try to take that all on board, and deal with it - if only for a quieter life!
I sort of think that the people who do well in achieving difficult things - like flying for example, are those who listen and respond constructively to criticism.
Those who don't either aren't being criticised which possibly means they're perfect, but far more likely means that the rest of the world has given up on them and stopped bothering to point their mistakes out. Or they aren't listening. Or they don't give a damn what anybody else thinks, or the consequences of their actions.
So, yes, I think there's a certain mindset that tends to lead to success, and also tends to make you a good pilot.
G
I often feel that in both my private and professional lives, people keep criticising me, or I keep spotting stuff that needs improving. I try to take that all on board, and deal with it - if only for a quieter life!
I sort of think that the people who do well in achieving difficult things - like flying for example, are those who listen and respond constructively to criticism.
Those who don't either aren't being criticised which possibly means they're perfect, but far more likely means that the rest of the world has given up on them and stopped bothering to point their mistakes out. Or they aren't listening. Or they don't give a damn what anybody else thinks, or the consequences of their actions.
So, yes, I think there's a certain mindset that tends to lead to success, and also tends to make you a good pilot.
G
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A bit of a conundrum really. Many high achievers (pilots) are at the same time often perceived as egotistical, arrogant even, or am I only talking about the ones that are heading to the scene of their accident?
But unless you really are perfect, you are going to need a measure of humility which is I suppose an interesting source of psychological tension within the individual.
Is introspection, and the ability to self-correct a desirable characteristic of a successful pilot? - was what I had hoped to elicit. OTOH I developed these traits before commencing training, and they probably did augment the ability to behave safely. What I wonder about is does the reverse effect also occur, has learning to fly had benefit in other areas of life? But no, I don't check my car much more often.
I think I intend becoming an old rather than a bold aviator. Hmm is 60 old? Nearly made it!! Probably there is a spectrum of personality types, both with ability, but some better able to continue to learn the stuff that keeps you alive.
But unless you really are perfect, you are going to need a measure of humility which is I suppose an interesting source of psychological tension within the individual.
Is introspection, and the ability to self-correct a desirable characteristic of a successful pilot? - was what I had hoped to elicit. OTOH I developed these traits before commencing training, and they probably did augment the ability to behave safely. What I wonder about is does the reverse effect also occur, has learning to fly had benefit in other areas of life? But no, I don't check my car much more often.
I think I intend becoming an old rather than a bold aviator. Hmm is 60 old? Nearly made it!! Probably there is a spectrum of personality types, both with ability, but some better able to continue to learn the stuff that keeps you alive.
If every generally careless pilot was quickly eliminated from the gene pool then I would agree with you. However, whilst professional pilots are probably selected to be conscientious by other routes such as failed checkrides, I'm not certain that the same is true for private pilots - all we have to do is fly reasonably consistently for the examiner, on one occasion early in our flying careers. How much or how little we do after that, is largely down to us. (I'm currently a student PPL)
As far as I can tell, the only defining characteristic of a private pilot is to be reasonably well off, which generally implies a pre-existing and reasonably high level of intelligence and discipline in our professional lives.
After that, as pilots we all enjoy flying, or wanted to do so at some time in the past. It may be that the original dream was doing slow rolls low over the countryside in a Tiger Moth, or zooming and booming down the Welsh valleys. The reality, as I experience it, is far more down to understanding how a multitude of systems work and interact - from carburettors to cumulonimbus clouds to navigation. I enjoy this immensely - the neuroscientist Simon Baron Cohen would definitely rank me fairly high as a 'systematiser'. As such, I dislike having gaps in my knowledge and try to fill them whenever I can. A reasonably high proportion of pilots seem to have technical jobs or hobbies - I know a fair number of physicists or programmers who are also pilots so I think this is a common and probably desirable characteristic, but not a defining one.
Finally, I enjoy making important decisions - sometimes under pressure. There's a degree of honesty about flying - if something goes wrong, you risk getting killed, whether or not it was you that made the fatal mistake. However, I often wonder how apparent this sense of jeopardy is to other people. I hurt myself mildly in a hang-gliding accident a few years back but look back fondly on my hang-gliding days. It was a very immediate way of flying - you're out there with the wind rushing past your face, and you're at a reasonably low level most of the time. Flying in an enclosed light aircraft is a very different experience. You sit there in a warm bubble, and although you see the scenery go by and know that you're flying incredibly high and fast by comparison, the sense of jeopardy isn't nearly as visceral. I do know a few pilots who simply don't seem to feel it.
So all in all, I'm not sure that it's so easy to pigeonhole pilots. On the other hand, as is probably clear I like to think that I have a better understanding of systems than many people, and a greater awareness of risk. As I read over my post, I have to admit there's probably a degree of self-confidence/arrogance there. But as the psychologists argue, humans are inherently incapable of honest self-appraisal, so whether or not it's warranted is another matter.
As far as I can tell, the only defining characteristic of a private pilot is to be reasonably well off, which generally implies a pre-existing and reasonably high level of intelligence and discipline in our professional lives.
After that, as pilots we all enjoy flying, or wanted to do so at some time in the past. It may be that the original dream was doing slow rolls low over the countryside in a Tiger Moth, or zooming and booming down the Welsh valleys. The reality, as I experience it, is far more down to understanding how a multitude of systems work and interact - from carburettors to cumulonimbus clouds to navigation. I enjoy this immensely - the neuroscientist Simon Baron Cohen would definitely rank me fairly high as a 'systematiser'. As such, I dislike having gaps in my knowledge and try to fill them whenever I can. A reasonably high proportion of pilots seem to have technical jobs or hobbies - I know a fair number of physicists or programmers who are also pilots so I think this is a common and probably desirable characteristic, but not a defining one.
Finally, I enjoy making important decisions - sometimes under pressure. There's a degree of honesty about flying - if something goes wrong, you risk getting killed, whether or not it was you that made the fatal mistake. However, I often wonder how apparent this sense of jeopardy is to other people. I hurt myself mildly in a hang-gliding accident a few years back but look back fondly on my hang-gliding days. It was a very immediate way of flying - you're out there with the wind rushing past your face, and you're at a reasonably low level most of the time. Flying in an enclosed light aircraft is a very different experience. You sit there in a warm bubble, and although you see the scenery go by and know that you're flying incredibly high and fast by comparison, the sense of jeopardy isn't nearly as visceral. I do know a few pilots who simply don't seem to feel it.
So all in all, I'm not sure that it's so easy to pigeonhole pilots. On the other hand, as is probably clear I like to think that I have a better understanding of systems than many people, and a greater awareness of risk. As I read over my post, I have to admit there's probably a degree of self-confidence/arrogance there. But as the psychologists argue, humans are inherently incapable of honest self-appraisal, so whether or not it's warranted is another matter.
I have a job where mistakes can have dear consequences, though luckily never life-threatening, and I remember myself stating (with obvious self-importance) that every sysadmin should really take a pilot's training, always have a plan B, never take anything for granted &c &c
And as for
I am sure I am often considered arrogant by certain members of my own team and much more from the teams we mostly work with, but not egotistical, the word being little known and even less used in this rural area.
And as for
often perceived as egotistical, arrogant even
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The ability to look at your own performance in a analytical and considered way, and to recognise and accept your own mistakes, is certainly useful to a pilot. It's also useful in most walks of life.
However I don't think that there is much in private pilot training that makes private pilots more likely to be minded as such.
I also think that many people who feel that they are minded that way, might not be as analytical and clinical about their own behaviours as they believe themselves to be. But of course they can't see that
However I don't think that there is much in private pilot training that makes private pilots more likely to be minded as such.
I also think that many people who feel that they are minded that way, might not be as analytical and clinical about their own behaviours as they believe themselves to be. But of course they can't see that
...the only defining characteristic of a private pilot is to be reasonably well off, which generally implies a pre-existing and reasonably high level of intelligence...
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Pilots, both private and professional, are no different from any other "intelligent life form". Some are good, some are bad, some are dangerous, some are safe, some are fat, some are slim, some are good company, some are boring as hell.
The only real exception I've noticed is that there aren't many young, good looking chicks with their own two-seat spitfire......
The only real exception I've noticed is that there aren't many young, good looking chicks with their own two-seat spitfire......
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Pilots aren't a special breed. They are people. People that have spent their time on acquiring skills of timeliness, decision making, judgement, and co ordination. Nothing more than Joe Bloggs, just in a different environment. Do you eat or not? This is a life critical decision, as is do I pull now or let the aeroplane pile into the hill? In this sense pilot skills are just a specialisation like driving a fork lift or serving a meal in a restaurant. Money is the driving factor in private aviation.
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As far as I can tell, the only defining characteristic of a private pilot is to be reasonably well off, which generally implies a pre-existing and reasonably high level of intelligence and discipline in our professional lives.
A professional and successful business person, who reaches the point in life where they can afford to fly, cannot be assumed to have the flying experience to back it up. I present JFK Junior as an example of this....
Yeah, I've made lots of mistakes - as recently as today! In truth, many should have been fatal, but with little more than luck, the "swiss cheese holes" did not line up, and I did not fall through. I opine that the real skill in a person, is to not only recognize the mistake, but correctly place it in the context of why did it happen (so as to prevent a repeat) and what were the consequences. How would you do it differently next time, or more simply, what did you learn, and how will you apply it!
Bad enough something bad happened, or nearly so, but worse, you don't learn from it, and it happens again and again.
My job is to test and assess that a modified aircraft is compliant and safe. So I'm constantly trying to figure out how to design out opportunities for pilots to make mistakes. Still though, after having approved several hundred modifications, four pilots have still found a way to kill themselves in a modified aircraft I had flight tested, and approved. The design standards, and format for flight manuals and placards is intended to design out mistakes - if the pilot follows them!
But there's a more basic layer than that. Pilots, no matter how successful, must always remind themselves, that they are still a soft bit of skin hurtling through the sky, and if they are not skilled and cautious, the plane is going to kill them. The sly and the ground, don't know they are "successful"! Pilots must only venture far away from their skill set, under competent supervision.
I have to agree with you on reflection DAR.
There have always been a proportion of people who have got rich through a degree of personal arrogance, decide to take up flying, and are a menace to themselves and others because they don't take the attitude to their flying that it wants and needs.
In North America they often used to by Bonanzas, leading to its reputation as the "Doctor and Lawyer killer", which was unfair on the aeroplane - it was/is just a flying machine that needs a reasonably sharp and current pilot. Nowadays they're mostly buying SR22s thankfully, so we get lots of chute-pulls, but less dead lawyers.
The real danger however is probably where they keep buying medium sized helicopters. Those machines don't have an easy-out (well they do, land in a field and walk, but that goes against the moral grain of many of their pilots), and are relatively unforgiving of lack of recency and skill.
G
There have always been a proportion of people who have got rich through a degree of personal arrogance, decide to take up flying, and are a menace to themselves and others because they don't take the attitude to their flying that it wants and needs.
In North America they often used to by Bonanzas, leading to its reputation as the "Doctor and Lawyer killer", which was unfair on the aeroplane - it was/is just a flying machine that needs a reasonably sharp and current pilot. Nowadays they're mostly buying SR22s thankfully, so we get lots of chute-pulls, but less dead lawyers.
The real danger however is probably where they keep buying medium sized helicopters. Those machines don't have an easy-out (well they do, land in a field and walk, but that goes against the moral grain of many of their pilots), and are relatively unforgiving of lack of recency and skill.
G
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Yeah, I've made lots of mistakes - as recently as today! In truth, many should have been fatal, but with little more than luck, the "swiss cheese holes" did not line up, and I did not fall through. I opine that the real skill in a person, is to not only recognize the mistake, but correctly place it in the context of why did it happen (so as to prevent a repeat) and what were the consequences. How would you do it differently next time, or more simply, what did you learn, and how will you apply it!
i would back what pilot Dar has said 100%. I have lost 5 friends to aviatiom and have also had swiss chease holes not lining up which makes me think "there for the grace of god go I".
We are a mixed bag of personalities and abilities as well as experience and it is so important to fly within your and the aircraft limitations.
More important to actually know what those limitations are and there lies the problem.
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I think people who take the time to learn the skills needed to become a pilot are people who can apply themselves to a task and have a level of commitment and can take a certain amount of constructive critisisim.
Thus eliminating 100% of the xfactor 'give it to me on a plate because i saw Top Gun' fraternity.
I read every accident report i can, i think, i analyse, and i try to put myself in the place of the accident pilot and ask the 'what would i do' question.
For instance i now understand very well what frequency bias is after a routine 'take off' with full tanks and a larger than normal passenger, nothing focuses the mind than 50% of the runway gone and 50 Knots on the clock. I learnt a valuable lession.
Thus eliminating 100% of the xfactor 'give it to me on a plate because i saw Top Gun' fraternity.
I read every accident report i can, i think, i analyse, and i try to put myself in the place of the accident pilot and ask the 'what would i do' question.
For instance i now understand very well what frequency bias is after a routine 'take off' with full tanks and a larger than normal passenger, nothing focuses the mind than 50% of the runway gone and 50 Knots on the clock. I learnt a valuable lession.
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There have always been a proportion of people who have got rich through a degree of personal arrogance
I've been a moderately successful businessman since 1978 and I think the often claimed idea of business/professional people refusing to take in instruction and getting killed in fast planes is more complex than it appears.
Sure some are arrogant but arrogance and aggression is sadly only just beneath the surface of modern society, at all levels of affluence.
Most of them are competent in getting stuff done. It's what they get paid for. So many people are so inept and useless (I spent much of yesterday talking to total d1ckheads in various finance companies on behalf of my mum who is in a care home) that I wonder who the hell recruited them. They also often pay c. £1000+/day for other forms of professionally delivered training. Then they turn up at the average flying school and what do they get? I know it varies but you get the idea. The schools are mostly set up to make a bit of money out of punters who are flat broke, and they mostly operate decrepit hardware which the aforementioned punter doesn't mind climbing into. They are not set up to deliver high quality training. So you get all sorts of problems. No wonder so many instructors so openly dislike business/professional people.
Also no bit of the civilian PPL training scene is set up to produce and support pilots who actually have the dosh to buy their own plane and go places in it. I was one of those back in 2002 and I never found an instructor who even knew how the KI-525 HSI worked, let alone the GPS, and you don't get much simpler than a KLN-94. The whole business hangs together only because the vast majority never do go anywhere. The RAF, OTOH, does train pilots to do the job because they have to.
The Cirrus business, under huge pressure from U.S. insurers, has got its act together and is offering some sort of post-PPL advanced training. But historically this never happened. Kennedy getting killed on a night flight (which is IMC, on a real night) is a common thing; he just happened to be famous. A pity he didn't do it in a Cirrus, eh?
There is nothing unsafe about a Cirrus; it's just that Cirrus opened up a bit of a new market and historically most of the people flying them were well short of the training actually required, which shows up in the inept reasons for most of the chute pulls.Most of the PPL community struggles with very low currency figures, but most of them are smart enough to be aware of this and they stick to simple short flights. It is those who manage to drag themselves out of that scene who have the problems. They fly with virtually no support, and it takes a pretty dedicated (to the point of obscession) pilot to keep up the learning process, diligently use the checklist, etc. And a % of them do get killed, which is no suprise at all. There is so much extra stuff to learn, and nobody is training it. It is up to the pilot to realise the shortfall and dig the stuff out all by himself.
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Looking at it from a new powered but old glider lag, I've always erred on the side of caution when flying. I know what I can do and I don't try to do things that I can't. If something crops up that I haven't met before I'll discuss it with an instructor which may be enough or I'll do a dual trip and get it ironed out with them.
I can't go along with the 'most pilots are successful and therefore can afford to fly' line of thought either. Most pilots I know have to give up other things to get their two or three hours a month in. I'm not financially successful (the subject of money and the aquisition thereof really does bore me to death, as long as I have enough to get by), I measure success by other parameters; and by my own measurements I've had a pretty successful and full life. I wouldn't say that I'm arrogant either, most people who know me think I'm laid back to the horizontal. I am confident though. I also don't lose if I set myself a challenge, such as doing the PPL. Failure is not an option as they say.
An interesting thread, I wonder if there is a personality trait that pilots share other than the peverse delight in seeing hundreds of pounds a month disappearing in exhaust fumes?
I can't go along with the 'most pilots are successful and therefore can afford to fly' line of thought either. Most pilots I know have to give up other things to get their two or three hours a month in. I'm not financially successful (the subject of money and the aquisition thereof really does bore me to death, as long as I have enough to get by), I measure success by other parameters; and by my own measurements I've had a pretty successful and full life. I wouldn't say that I'm arrogant either, most people who know me think I'm laid back to the horizontal. I am confident though. I also don't lose if I set myself a challenge, such as doing the PPL. Failure is not an option as they say.
An interesting thread, I wonder if there is a personality trait that pilots share other than the peverse delight in seeing hundreds of pounds a month disappearing in exhaust fumes?
A professional and successful business person, who reaches the point in life where they can afford to fly, cannot be assumed to have the flying experience to back it up. I present JFK Junior as an example of this....
My point is simply that success in many walks of life - law, medicine, business - demands a degree of intelligence and application and this may be useful to them in their flying. Of course, there are exceptions such as people who have inherited wealth.
Anyway, the initial question was 'what are the characteristics of a pilot?' - not 'what are the characteristics of a good pilot?'