concerning mistakes
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ABDG
It is not the case that the attributes which make a good businessman make a good pilot.
I know a superb busessman with an ultra detailed mind who is great as a pilot until overloaded when he freezes up.
A good pilot has a lot of spare mental capacity when loaded which isnt the same as having business mental capacity or ability.
I once had it described as a computer stored memory and a fast Graphics card with a lot of onboard memory.
Obviously the more information stored on the hard drive means less work for the graphics card but a poor Graphics card will bring the computer to a freeze if loaded with too much in visuals.
Its the freeze point that kills.
Obviously we all have different brains and abilities. racing drivers often make poor businessmen but it doesnt hold that an excellent businessman will make a good racing driver etc???
More important with our mixed bag of natural abilities and personalities is that we all fly within our own abilities as well as the aircrafts and never get into a brain freeze situation where we cannot cope, get behind the aircraft or situations and cannot pick up our game to meet a certain situation.
Pace
My point is simply that success in many walks of life - law, medicine, business - demands a degree of intelligence and application and this may be useful to them in their flying. Of course, there are exceptions such as people who have inherited wealth.
I know a superb busessman with an ultra detailed mind who is great as a pilot until overloaded when he freezes up.
A good pilot has a lot of spare mental capacity when loaded which isnt the same as having business mental capacity or ability.
I once had it described as a computer stored memory and a fast Graphics card with a lot of onboard memory.
Obviously the more information stored on the hard drive means less work for the graphics card but a poor Graphics card will bring the computer to a freeze if loaded with too much in visuals.
Its the freeze point that kills.
Obviously we all have different brains and abilities. racing drivers often make poor businessmen but it doesnt hold that an excellent businessman will make a good racing driver etc???
More important with our mixed bag of natural abilities and personalities is that we all fly within our own abilities as well as the aircrafts and never get into a brain freeze situation where we cannot cope, get behind the aircraft or situations and cannot pick up our game to meet a certain situation.
Pace
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A good pilot has a lot of spare mental capacity when loaded
A good pilot will prepare the flight, and execute it, in a manner which ensures (as far as possible) that his cockpit workload never becomes unmanageable.
For example I can sure fly my TB20 by hand in IMC, and have had to do so plenty of times, even getting video footage of the failed autopilot behaviour
but I would not depart on a long flight with an INOP autopilot (unless I had a co-pilot) because an autopilot makes a ~10x difference to cockpit workload, and who should embark on a flight with both hands tied behind his back?In the event of an autopilot failure enroute, one would not create workload just for the fun of it. One would not fly an NDB approach (in any kind of real near-minima wx) if there is an ILS 50nm away, and one would not fly a procedural ILS if one can get vectors. One would also tell ATC that in the event of a hold, could it please be above FLxxx (above the clouds), etc etc (helps with icing conditions too).
Every pilot will make more mistakes if pressed, and every pilot makes mistakes even if not pressed. I make some mistake on almost every flight. You hope that none of them are critical. Usually, with modern avionics, not one of them is alone critical. He says... 170A tomorrow, no autopilot, no GPS, for the most part
At the other end of the scale, you need to be a very good instinctive pilot to be good at aerobatics, I would think (not something I know anything about).
And you get all sorts of people in between, because anybody who can dig up ~£8000 and can spare 50-60hrs or so can get a PPL.
The advantage which a high earner has (assuming he actually has time, which most of them don't until they are in their 50s) is that he is not short of money, and like it or not that is very relevant in flying, because currency, and particularly currency on type, is the most important single thing.
The disadvantage which a high earner has is that he will p1ss off most instructors
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The adege is the same anywhere, people that do, the high achievers, and people that do not, the majority. Only those that have run their own business for a long time, understand the constant drive, the constant hastle, the constant rollercoaster, that is being in business. Alan Sugar, alludes at times to this, but like X factor (we all wanna be famous - with zero talent in a lot of cases), people tune in to The Apprentice, and see the wide eyed and bushy tailed wanna be'es. Old eyes look on and say be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
I think the aviation community (pilots) are the same. The ability levels, the commitments, the drive to learn and improve, is vastly varied. And like the business world, some succeed, and some fail, only the BIG difference is that you may well die in aviation failure.
Not all business people are bright - look at the boards of Royal Bank of Scotland, The Bank of Scotland, HSBC, do you want me to go on..........
I think the aviation community (pilots) are the same. The ability levels, the commitments, the drive to learn and improve, is vastly varied. And like the business world, some succeed, and some fail, only the BIG difference is that you may well die in aviation failure.
Not all business people are bright - look at the boards of Royal Bank of Scotland, The Bank of Scotland, HSBC, do you want me to go on..........
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Maxred
Even the famous Richard Branson was a dunce at school. I knew one guy who was genious at shifting surplus stuff and made millions but who tried to pay some one to take flying exams as he could not face any exams
This is the crux we all have talents in one way or another.
There are some who consider they could teach a monkey to fly and there is an element of truth there.
You can teach almost anyone to drive but you cannot teach everyone to win the world formula one championship.
You can teach almost anyone to fly but you cannot teach everyone to fly a complex aircraft in **** weather IMC with multiple failures, icing conditions and land safely at destination, one engine out with a failed autopilot and flight director to minima! All single pilot (there are some who can)
Fly within your own and the aircrafts limits and know those limits has to be the safe way?
Pace
Even the famous Richard Branson was a dunce at school. I knew one guy who was genious at shifting surplus stuff and made millions but who tried to pay some one to take flying exams as he could not face any exams
This is the crux we all have talents in one way or another.
There are some who consider they could teach a monkey to fly and there is an element of truth there.
You can teach almost anyone to drive but you cannot teach everyone to win the world formula one championship.
You can teach almost anyone to fly but you cannot teach everyone to fly a complex aircraft in **** weather IMC with multiple failures, icing conditions and land safely at destination, one engine out with a failed autopilot and flight director to minima! All single pilot (there are some who can)
Fly within your own and the aircrafts limits and know those limits has to be the safe way?
Pace
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Without digressing too much (shame eh ) I think you will find that most of today's famous enterpreneurs are very much men of their time, and could not repeat their lucky breaks over and over, especially in today's business climate where the internet is such a ruthless leveller.
Still, if you make a load of millions, the fact that you can't do it again is not going to worry you
What I meant was that these customers insist on very competent organisation and training, which the average RF is not geared up for.
Anyway, few if any will be doing an ab initio PPL in a plane they bought beforehand.
) I think you will find that most of today's famous enterpreneurs are very much men of their time, and could not repeat their lucky breaks over and over, especially in today's business climate where the internet is such a ruthless leveller.Still, if you make a load of millions, the fact that you can't do it again is not going to worry you
Why should anybody dislike somebody who pays for them to log PiC in their expensive aeroplane?
Anyway, few if any will be doing an ab initio PPL in a plane they bought beforehand.
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Anyway, the initial question was 'what are the characteristics of a pilot?' - not 'what are the characteristics of a good pilot?'
The link began to diverge into 'high flying rich businessmen', 'A' type personality, high achievers, therefore drawn to aviation as a high achieving pastime/job/hobby/sport. It is not so simple. As said before aviation brings a whole host of 'types', some good, some brilliant, some bad, same as life, same as business.
A good pilot will prepare the flight, and execute it, in a manner which ensures (as far as possible) that his cockpit workload never becomes unmanageable.
However, a fair number of these good pilots, perish, because somewhere along the line, things go wrong. Preparedness, or not as the case may be sometimes just is not enough. Accidents happen. So what are the characteristics of a pilot? It is like asking what are the characteristics of a doctor - diligence, intelligence, I like doing it, my mum wanted me to be one??
The link began to diverge into 'high flying rich businessmen', 'A' type personality, high achievers, therefore drawn to aviation as a high achieving pastime/job/hobby/sport. It is not so simple. As said before aviation brings a whole host of 'types', some good, some brilliant, some bad, same as life, same as business.
A good pilot will prepare the flight, and execute it, in a manner which ensures (as far as possible) that his cockpit workload never becomes unmanageable.
However, a fair number of these good pilots, perish, because somewhere along the line, things go wrong. Preparedness, or not as the case may be sometimes just is not enough. Accidents happen. So what are the characteristics of a pilot? It is like asking what are the characteristics of a doctor - diligence, intelligence, I like doing it, my mum wanted me to be one??
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1) Somebody who once had £8k
2) Somebody who had 50-60hrs spare
Taking the Q literally, that's about it
The vast majority of fatal crashes are pilot error.
I think the vast majority of those would not have been made by the same pilot sitting in his armchair, presented with the hypothetical scenario.
2) Somebody who had 50-60hrs spare
Taking the Q literally, that's about it
The vast majority of fatal crashes are pilot error.
I think the vast majority of those would not have been made by the same pilot sitting in his armchair, presented with the hypothetical scenario.
And you get all sorts of people in between, because anybody who can dig up ~£8000 and can spare 50-60hrs or so can get a PPL.
I'll be blunt and say that my day job involves discussing mild to moderately complex issues with Joe Public, and that when I worked in an inner city area, I found myself pondering how civilisation continues, given the proportion of people who still had trouble with numeracy and literacy and the often relatively simple concepts I was trying to get over.
I also agree with the idea that academic intelligence isn't enough to be a good pilot, but whilst I can see that it isn't necessary to be a brainbox, I do think there's a basic minimum level of academic ability required. And perhaps application is even more important - there's quite a lot of material to cover for a PPL (even though much of it is not extremely complex) and I think that without a fair degree of drive most people would simply decide to do something else with their time and money.
The schools are mostly set up to make a bit of money out of punters who are flat broke
I regard myself as being rather well off on about £40,000 a year - the top 15% or so of earners. But the only reason I can afford to fly is that I used my savings to pay for the PPL course, and I don't own a car which means I have more disposable income than most. I still worry that I'm spending money that I should really be investing. I don't think anybody who can afford tuition at £130 an hour or more is anywhere near 'flat broke' - at least in the way I understand it.
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Sorry guys. This is far simpler. We all make mistakes but mostly trivial ones. If we make a big mistake most of us would say, jees! I'll not do that again. We then analyse it.
We must push the boundaries or we never learn, but it should only be in small bites. Water skiing in a Robin. How do you take that in small bites?
The difference is not money, status or even training.
It is attitude!
D.O.
We must push the boundaries or we never learn, but it should only be in small bites. Water skiing in a Robin. How do you take that in small bites?
The difference is not money, status or even training.
It is attitude!
D.O.
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Is that really true? My impression is that the basics of actually flying are reasonably straightforward, but I know a lot of people who would be absolutely flummoxed by the practicalities of paper-and-whizzwheel navigation, and who simply wouldn't be able to pass the theoretical exams no matter how much tutoring they had.
Re RF setups, I think the PPL as a product is price sensitive, in that if you doubled the cost, and for that you delivered a very professionally produced training package, with nice new planes, etc, you would lose most of the business. But we will never know this for sure, because all the time there is somebody in your area willing to sit there from 9am to 6pm, unpaid, in a hut, waiting for a phone call for some pleasure flight booking, with a heap of a C150 sitting outside, he will get most of the business. He won't get the Alan Sugars, however.
I regard myself as being rather well off on about £40,000 a year - the top 15% or so of earners.
so you don't pick up any major obligations, then you can do a great deal of GA flying on that income. Probably ~100hrs/year, if in a group.
I still worry that I'm spending money that I should really be investing.
Moderator
I find that when considering piloting tasks, pretty well everything can be boiled down to the prime directive: Aviate - Navigate - Communicate. With the possible exception of the last, in certain flying environments, a pilot must otherwise have the capacity to keep the responsibilities of all three of these disciplines handled relative to the needs of the flight.
Aviate is the least tolerant of the three, if being ignored for any length of time, so we have to keep an eye on that one most, and foremost. That said, in a busy traffic area, Navigate will become very important.
I watch myself, and other pilots, deal with the workload demands of these three, and how they are balanced. Different pilots thrive best in one, but not all of these three disciplines. So, they are best to be well aware of their shortcomings in the others. In some cases, a pilot can avoid, or minimize exposure to certain flying environments, and thus probably not have to call upon those lesser skills. In the long term, that pilot should be focusing on improving the lesser skills, but in the immediate term, create an extra level of safety by recognizing the shortcoming, and making extra allowance, preplanning, flight manual review, or whatever is going to be necessary to keep the swiss cheese holes from lining up.
The problem can come when a pilot fails to recognize that an unexpected change in conditions could drive workload in one or more of the three disciplines, way up, fast. Does the pilot have the excess capacity to handle it? If you think you don't you put some mitigation in there in advance to help you out should the worst come to the worst.
For what I have seen, it's not so much the super skilled pilot who survives, but the super prepared pilot. No matter how much skill, something which you had never considered, or prepared for, is going to get you.
My three most common and scary have been icing conditions - so I stay out! Errors in weight and balance for aircraft I am to fly, but did not load, so I check those really carefully, and improperly accomplished maintenance, so I do really careful maintenance reviews and walk arounds.
JFK Jr. just did not imagine how little there is to see when you're pointed out over the Atlantic at night, and how fast that type of aircraft will build up speed when you fail to control your attitude. Neither condition would have been fatal, were the other one to have been very well handled. The third hole in the swiss cheese? Two women aboard who really wanted to get there, and no self discipline to say, "No"
Aviate is the least tolerant of the three, if being ignored for any length of time, so we have to keep an eye on that one most, and foremost. That said, in a busy traffic area, Navigate will become very important.
I watch myself, and other pilots, deal with the workload demands of these three, and how they are balanced. Different pilots thrive best in one, but not all of these three disciplines. So, they are best to be well aware of their shortcomings in the others. In some cases, a pilot can avoid, or minimize exposure to certain flying environments, and thus probably not have to call upon those lesser skills. In the long term, that pilot should be focusing on improving the lesser skills, but in the immediate term, create an extra level of safety by recognizing the shortcoming, and making extra allowance, preplanning, flight manual review, or whatever is going to be necessary to keep the swiss cheese holes from lining up.
The problem can come when a pilot fails to recognize that an unexpected change in conditions could drive workload in one or more of the three disciplines, way up, fast. Does the pilot have the excess capacity to handle it? If you think you don't you put some mitigation in there in advance to help you out should the worst come to the worst.
For what I have seen, it's not so much the super skilled pilot who survives, but the super prepared pilot. No matter how much skill, something which you had never considered, or prepared for, is going to get you.
My three most common and scary have been icing conditions - so I stay out! Errors in weight and balance for aircraft I am to fly, but did not load, so I check those really carefully, and improperly accomplished maintenance, so I do really careful maintenance reviews and walk arounds.
JFK Jr. just did not imagine how little there is to see when you're pointed out over the Atlantic at night, and how fast that type of aircraft will build up speed when you fail to control your attitude. Neither condition would have been fatal, were the other one to have been very well handled. The third hole in the swiss cheese? Two women aboard who really wanted to get there, and no self discipline to say, "No"
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Having had the rest of the day to think about this I think that the most competent pilots have good situational awareness and spare capacity to deal with unexpected events. Not just as in knowing where you are and where you are going but what you are going to do if x or y happens. If you have no plan what to do if x or y happens then make one. I suppose as you gain more experience then more possibilities of x and y occuring crop up; so you just carry more 'x and y occurring' plans in your head.
My head is fairly empty of x and y plans as I haven't had the experiences yet to realise the need for another x and y plan to carry in my head. Although they are gathering pace.
Personally I always prepare for the worst when flying, such as a fanstop etc, then when it doesn't happen I'm pleasantly surprised. I always have a landable field in view though. Gliding habit.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the old adage 'Superior pilots use their superior knowledge to stay out of situations that require the use of their superior skill'.
My head is fairly empty of x and y plans as I haven't had the experiences yet to realise the need for another x and y plan to carry in my head. Although they are gathering pace.
Personally I always prepare for the worst when flying, such as a fanstop etc, then when it doesn't happen I'm pleasantly surprised. I always have a landable field in view though. Gliding habit.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the old adage 'Superior pilots use their superior knowledge to stay out of situations that require the use of their superior skill'.
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I think the OP has a flaw in his original premise - that pilots have an overriding interest in correcting their own mistakes. I think we have a greater-than-normal interest in correcting OTHERS' mistakes. We pore over accident reports and speculate as to what the incident pilot did wrong, say "There but for the grace of god", etc. But, when faced with direct criticism of our own actions, such as someone approaching you on the ramp after a flight, I think we take the feedback no better or worse than any other population - all based on the personalities involved in the conversation.
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I like these threads they make me chuckle. 'The disadvantage which a high earner has is that he will p1ss off most instructors' Where does that leave the successful businessman who is also an instructor and examiner ?
Well, my girlfriend just asked what I'd been spending so much time on, so she read the thread. Her comments were:
* Much better spelling than on any of the forums I read!
* Oh dear, you're no good at multi-tasking...
* Hah! Too late.
* Much better spelling than on any of the forums I read!
* Oh dear, you're no good at multi-tasking...
* Hah! Too late.
Moderator
* Much better spelling than on any of the forums I read!
Some of us harass those who either carelessly misspell words, or worse, slip into the laziness of abbreviating words with "u's", "r's", "2's" and "8's". But, of course, being aviation, acronyms are allowed (so there's lots that I still don't understand here).
Now, if only I could get the weather people to present their reports and forecasts with whole words!
Now, if only I could get the weather people to present their reports and forecasts with whole words!
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Yes, thank you! It's an attitude thing.
Into that also comes what you are actually using to post your messages!
If I am at home on the computer, its peaceful and im not hassled then my spelling is better than if I am out and about on trains or in cafes or sitting in the handling agents lounge awaiting PAX using my I phone! (prob 50/50 of my postings.
I will often edit or add! getting a message down quickly or in the case of the I phone correcting it on the home computer.
Some I noticed hardly edit while mine seem to be always edited
Pace
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I have tried posting with an Ipad2 but it is just too painful. To make posts sensible one usually has to quote another post, and doing the copy/paste stuff with an Ipad is pure torture. I would simply not bother. On an Iphone it will be harder still. These devices are OK for just reading stuff.