JAA/FAA Logbook
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JAA/FAA Logbook
Hello everybody!
I would verh much like yo hear your opinion regarding flight time records (logbooks).
I have just obtained my FAA licence - in addition to my JAA licence. I intend to use my FAA licence only for private flying in US (as opposed to my airline job here in Europe). That means I would log approximately 10 or 20 hours a year with my FAA licence and a much larger sum with my JAA licence.
My question is whether I should keep separate logbook for "FAA-flying" and one for "JAA-flying" or am I allowed to keep my existing logbook for all my flights. I know that nobody here in Europe normally cares (I mean the CAA people) what you have in your logbook but I have no experience with the FAA. Do they require that you keep your logbook in FAA format or would they be happy with my existing JAA-format logbook as well?
Thank you very much for your opinions/comments/etc.
Regards,
AC
I would verh much like yo hear your opinion regarding flight time records (logbooks).
I have just obtained my FAA licence - in addition to my JAA licence. I intend to use my FAA licence only for private flying in US (as opposed to my airline job here in Europe). That means I would log approximately 10 or 20 hours a year with my FAA licence and a much larger sum with my JAA licence.
My question is whether I should keep separate logbook for "FAA-flying" and one for "JAA-flying" or am I allowed to keep my existing logbook for all my flights. I know that nobody here in Europe normally cares (I mean the CAA people) what you have in your logbook but I have no experience with the FAA. Do they require that you keep your logbook in FAA format or would they be happy with my existing JAA-format logbook as well?
Thank you very much for your opinions/comments/etc.
Regards,
AC
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Anything goes. You can log your hours on a napkin if you want - there are no requirements from the FAA as far as I know. I log both my JAA and FAA in the same book just to make it easier for myself. There are subtle differences in PIC/SIC time and XCountry, but nothing one can't easily work into the same book.
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I personally would keep them seperate.
FAA instructors in my limited experence have a nasty habit of writing all over the bloody thing. It is apparently there right!!
And apart from that if your main log book goes missing in tranist your a bit stumped.
I would transfer a page into a cheapo log book then use that to get your FAA stuff put in then transfer the hours back into your main log book when you get home. Saves having scribbles in your pro log book for interviews.
FAA instructors in my limited experence have a nasty habit of writing all over the bloody thing. It is apparently there right!!
And apart from that if your main log book goes missing in tranist your a bit stumped.
I would transfer a page into a cheapo log book then use that to get your FAA stuff put in then transfer the hours back into your main log book when you get home. Saves having scribbles in your pro log book for interviews.
I use the "ASA International Pilots Log" (I actually run two 'identical' logbooks in case I lose one), but this one is compact and has enough columns to separate most of the figures you might need at any time.
Cheers, Sam.
Cheers, Sam.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Everything in one book I'd say. For me, that means both powered and unpowered flying.
As others have said, there's a requirement to log the hours in some detail, but there's no hard and strict rule about where and how to log it. As long as you are able to reproduce your flying history in sufficient detail, anything goes.
And let's be honest. Some of the experience you gain while flying on your FAA license will count towards currency on your JAA license, or the other way around. By having the record of that experience spread out over two books, with one of those sitting at home on a different continent, you might have a hard time proving that experience.
For instance your "three landings in the last 90 days" is not specifically restricted to a license/country/aircraft registration. (Although it might be restricted to an airplane class/type - I'm not quite sure about that one.)
I wonder if that is a bad thing. I'm a neat guy and even make sure all my logbook entries are in black pen, not in another color. But I have also heard of people who really "personalize" their logbook, using up multiple lines to record noteworthy flights, adding photos and other memorabilia. As long as it doesn't become too 13-year-old-girlish, at least it gives you something more to talk about during the airline interview. And it shows that you've actually enjoyed flying different types in different circumstances, rather than just having done hour-building for the sake of getting the hours in the logbook.
As others have said, there's a requirement to log the hours in some detail, but there's no hard and strict rule about where and how to log it. As long as you are able to reproduce your flying history in sufficient detail, anything goes.
And let's be honest. Some of the experience you gain while flying on your FAA license will count towards currency on your JAA license, or the other way around. By having the record of that experience spread out over two books, with one of those sitting at home on a different continent, you might have a hard time proving that experience.
For instance your "three landings in the last 90 days" is not specifically restricted to a license/country/aircraft registration. (Although it might be restricted to an airplane class/type - I'm not quite sure about that one.)
Saves having scribbles in your pro log book for interviews.
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For instance your "three landings in the last 90 days" is not specifically restricted to a license/country/aircraft registration. (Although it might be restricted to an airplane class/type - I'm not quite sure about that one.)
I wonder if that is a bad thing
All three of them now have commercial jobs in fact one of them is up for a LHS on a 777 in the very near future.
Its not the case of running two log books its just that you run a FAA one and transfer the hours into your main one at a later date. I know 2 people who have lost there log books and its something I never want to go through myself
Just a thought - I most certainly do not travel with my paper logbook, which is locked in my office and gets copied up into every week or three.
I travel with my USB drive, which contains my electronic logbook. My last FAA checkride, I made the entry in their sight and they provided me with stickers for my paper logbook with their comments.
Since the comments were essentially "satisfactory BFR, qualified high performance singles" it went straight in once I was home. If they'd decided to be more, err, eloquent then I could have elected to only include the legal minimum wording in my "catch all" paper logbook. I can't offhand see anything wrong in this - certainly no worse than Mad Jock's helpful actions.
G
I travel with my USB drive, which contains my electronic logbook. My last FAA checkride, I made the entry in their sight and they provided me with stickers for my paper logbook with their comments.
Since the comments were essentially "satisfactory BFR, qualified high performance singles" it went straight in once I was home. If they'd decided to be more, err, eloquent then I could have elected to only include the legal minimum wording in my "catch all" paper logbook. I can't offhand see anything wrong in this - certainly no worse than Mad Jock's helpful actions.
G
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I put all hours in the same book. If you do, make sure to log everything as directed by JAR-FCL. FAA has some weird ideas on for example PIC time. Also you need to log block-on/off in UTC, columns you don't even find in some FAA tailored books.
One logbook, photocopied from time to time in case it gets lost. Before retiral I kept the copy at work. I've never had a US instructor write anything in my logbook except the Biennial Review/check out details and his name and number.
I doubt I'd be able to rent anything in October if my logbook showed no flying since September 2010, and less than 250 hours since 1987.
I doubt I'd be able to rent anything in October if my logbook showed no flying since September 2010, and less than 250 hours since 1987.
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I use one logbook for all.
The only "good" reason I have come across for two logbooks was where somebody was doing some illegal flying (basically, flying RHS in an MCC jet but without a TR and without an SIC, and doing it outside the USA) and he put those hours into a special logbook
The fact that under FAA rules one can log time one could not log under JAA rules means little in practice because almost no non-JAA time is allowable against any JAA license or rating anyway. The 100hr PPL conversion route is the one exception I can think of. And in any case if you were to utilise any past hours towards something, the person doing the logbook examination will check all applicable entries.
The only "good" reason I have come across for two logbooks was where somebody was doing some illegal flying (basically, flying RHS in an MCC jet but without a TR and without an SIC, and doing it outside the USA) and he put those hours into a special logbook
The fact that under FAA rules one can log time one could not log under JAA rules means little in practice because almost no non-JAA time is allowable against any JAA license or rating anyway. The 100hr PPL conversion route is the one exception I can think of. And in any case if you were to utilise any past hours towards something, the person doing the logbook examination will check all applicable entries.
What you may want to do is have separate columns (a good reason for a chunky commercial logbook) for different things that matter.
For example, in JAAland there is a "complex" differences, and in FAAland there's a "high performance" differences. I have columns for each in my logbook - only one matters either side of the Atlantic.
G
For example, in JAAland there is a "complex" differences, and in FAAland there's a "high performance" differences. I have columns for each in my logbook - only one matters either side of the Atlantic.
G
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IMHO one needs to be aware of what type of flying one is trying to accumulate for some specific purpose.
For example, up to some years ago I used a standard CAA (Pooleys I think) logbook and when I went for the FAA CPL I had to go right through it and pick out all "cross country" flights i.e. ones with a GC distance over 50nm. This took a while (well, I mainly just picked out the really obvious ones like UK to Italy) and would have been quicker had I logged them separately at the time, which I have been doing since.
If there is no such likely future requirement then it hardly matters how you log it.
Once you have a certain set of papers then it becomes completely irrelevant what you log and how. I suppose you have to log your JAA PPL hours... enough to show you have done 12 in the last 2 years.
For example, up to some years ago I used a standard CAA (Pooleys I think) logbook and when I went for the FAA CPL I had to go right through it and pick out all "cross country" flights i.e. ones with a GC distance over 50nm. This took a while (well, I mainly just picked out the really obvious ones like UK to Italy) and would have been quicker had I logged them separately at the time, which I have been doing since.
If there is no such likely future requirement then it hardly matters how you log it.
Once you have a certain set of papers then it becomes completely irrelevant what you log and how. I suppose you have to log your JAA PPL hours... enough to show you have done 12 in the last 2 years.
I agree with you IO540, and that does make another good case for use of electronic logbooks - particularly running your own logbook in something like Excel that gives you good ability to change/tweak it as you meet new information requirements.
G
G
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new information requirements.
I find it easiest just to record the basics of each flight, such as date/time, callsign, type, aircraft class and pilot function, plus a short note on what I did/who flew with me. And when the time comes to prove I meet some specific experience requirement, I just tally up the relevant flights right there and then. I'm not going to keep a running total of every potential experience point just in case.
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I am not aware of any past requirement where you are required to add up the total figure for a particular kind of flying.
What you sometimes have to do is add up enough flights to show that you have done more than a certain figure.
Say you need 100 hrs cross country time, or whatever. So you just go back in your logbook until you have dug up say 110 hours, and put that on the application form for whatever piece of paper you are applying for. I cannot see any possibility of a prosecution based on you having more XC time than you declared on the app form
What you sometimes have to do is add up enough flights to show that you have done more than a certain figure.
Say you need 100 hrs cross country time, or whatever. So you just go back in your logbook until you have dug up say 110 hours, and put that on the application form for whatever piece of paper you are applying for. I cannot see any possibility of a prosecution based on you having more XC time than you declared on the app form
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Come on the poster is a commercial pilot in europe he is proberly going to be doing 40-120 sectors per month.
He wants to go fun flying while on holiday in the states.
He really doesn't want to let his proffessional log book go missing in action because its a whole heap of a PIA and looks a bit dodgy if he wants to apply for more jobs. (witterings by a CFI outstanding)
Having a separate small log book with everything in it to allow him to comply with FAA rules which doesn't really matter if it goes missing is by far the way forward. The ins and out of what he has done doesn't really matter because I presume that he only wants to go flying while on holiday and a FAA ppl is more than enough. If he wants to keep his SEP valid in the UK he can transfer the hours into his pro log book when he gets back home and use his LPC as his flight with an instructor. Its not as if he will be doing 50 hours of hour building when he is in the US.
A pro log book is a completely different beast to private in the grand scheme of things it can mean the difference of getting a job and not getting a job. If there is any hint of fiddling or issues and someone else will get chosen. Its a bit like the service history on a car.
He wants to go fun flying while on holiday in the states.
He really doesn't want to let his proffessional log book go missing in action because its a whole heap of a PIA and looks a bit dodgy if he wants to apply for more jobs. (witterings by a CFI outstanding)
Having a separate small log book with everything in it to allow him to comply with FAA rules which doesn't really matter if it goes missing is by far the way forward. The ins and out of what he has done doesn't really matter because I presume that he only wants to go flying while on holiday and a FAA ppl is more than enough. If he wants to keep his SEP valid in the UK he can transfer the hours into his pro log book when he gets back home and use his LPC as his flight with an instructor. Its not as if he will be doing 50 hours of hour building when he is in the US.
A pro log book is a completely different beast to private in the grand scheme of things it can mean the difference of getting a job and not getting a job. If there is any hint of fiddling or issues and someone else will get chosen. Its a bit like the service history on a car.