First flight with wife and children onboard

[Aussie Andy]

Hi all,

Got my PPL earlier this year. Have accumulated 10+ hours flying since getting the licence - loads of fun! This has included flights in which I have taken my wife's mother and brother on board.

I'm keen to take my wife and two young children up (the girls are seven years old). But my wife has been (understandably) concerned about (perceived) dangers, especially with the kids involved.

We agreed that I'd get at least 10 hours under my belt post-license before I took them all on a short jolly, so date has been set for early December and (weather permitting) we'll make a short flight from Wycombe over to our house (near BNN VOR) and back.

The kids are keen and excited. I think that once my wife has had the chance to experience for herself how tame flying in a Warrior/Dakota can be, then she'll feel better about it and all will be well.

My questions are:

• Have others had similar fears from close family members?
• Any tips for the first flight with family in tow?

All comments / advice will be appreciated.

Andy

[highwingloader]

Just be careful.

I took my two boys up in a helicopter about six years ago and, you know, it just didn't feel right. I know we do it in cars all the time, but taking the kids up felt really funny.

I flew my wife into Las Vegas in a very smart Piper Seminole two years ago and although she was bowled over by the spectacle, she really did not feel comfortable 'in a little plane'.

Basically if the Mrs doesn't like it (or doesn't want to do it), I wouldn't push it. It has to be her decision to go, not yours.

Sorry to be negative but it just isn't something you can force people to do. There is also the point about all your eggs being in one basket. Think about it. I have just read the accident report from the C182 that crashed at St Mawgan in the summer. Dad, mum and the kids on board - dad badly bunrned and subsequently died......... Makes you think.

I say all of this mainly because of your limited experience. I flew my kids after a couple of thousand flying hours and it still felt funny.

Make up your own mind - you're a big boy - but for God's sake be careful.

[Aussie Andy]

Highwingloader:

Thanks - very thought provoking. I will be nervous myself also. I plan to keep the first flight down to a very short one, no more than 20 minutes. If any of us (including me) feel unsure about things, I'll stay in the circuit and just land straight back.

Anyone else?

Andy

[pulse1]

Andy,

While it is perfectly understandable that you want to take your family flying, I can't help feeling that you are pushing it a bit to take them all together for their first flight in a small aircraft. Presumably your wife will sit in front with the girls behind you. If, for example, one or both children become distressed by turbulence which they don't understand, your wife, and therefore you, could become seriously distracted. Having any passenger distressed can be very distracting and when it is your own family it seems a lot worse. I was lucky when one of my boys became airsick, I was grateful to have an instructor with me which helped to keep the pressure off me until I could land. Incidentally, I was only in the circuit at the time.

It might be better to take the girls up with an instructor (or experienced pilot) with you to see how they get on. If they enjoy it, they will want to go again and will encourage your wife to join in.

But don't underestimate the power of motherhood - my wife flew with me before we had children, never when they were young, and, now I'm getting on a bit and she is only too aware of how fallible I am, she only flies happily when there is another pilot present. The thought of being stuck in an aeroplane with an incapacitated pilot terrifies her. Add children and she would probably panic with the first bump. With another pilot, I have flown her through some dodgy weather and, as long as there is some sun or a shop/restaurant at the other end, she is quite happy.

In sailing and flying, once you put wives off, it is very difficult to restore confidence.

[Southern Cross]

Hi AA

My wife flew with me several times in a C310 down to the south west of France. It was usually very enjoyable if the weather was absolutely perfect (this is a rarity by the way -usually it is pretty good most of the way but less than perfect somewhere along the way). But if the weather was less than perfect, at any stage, then she would get quite stressed out and worried.

I came to realise that we were flying together only because I wanted to - she strongly preferred not to. This was mostly because she was concerned that if "something happened to me", (eg fainted / heart attack etc - no history of anything like this by the way, touch wood) she would be unable to save herself. Fair call IMHO. Also, she is a nervous flyer at the best of times including long haul 747 type stuff. The possibility of doing one of those courses that teaches flying basics over 10 hours to non-flying spouses etc, was not welcomed!

Now I fly my 52. She has never seen it...in fact I bought and sold it over the space of 2 1/2 years, bought a 50, and she has not seen either. The thought of her coming for a flight in the 52 was, needless to say, never going to happen, even straight and level.

Good luck with your trip. But make sure your wife is flyng with you for the right reasons...

[pondlife]

Hi Andy, remember me - I sat with you in the Dakota the first time you tried it.

You can pretty much choose your own level of risk in a private aeroplane flight. You can choose to take additional risk by flying over water, or at night, or over terrain which wouldn't be friendly if the engine failed, or you can choose not to. You can choose to fly in bad visibility under a low cloud base, or you can choose not to. I, personally, sometimes choose the additional risk of flying a single at night or over water and will have as a passenger any adult who I consider to be capable of understanding the increased risk if I explain it to them. When I fly with my son, I don't consider him capable of understanding the increased risk and so I have to understand it on his behalf - because of that I won't choose to take any additional risk with him in the plane.
In any flight, there is a small element of risk which is beyond my control, but I wouldn't like to say that this is less or more than the risk of taking my son in the car - which I and most other people do without thinking about. My son only flies with me occasionally, but he's in the car or walking next to a main road regularly, so my own perception is that the increased risk to him of flying is insignificant.

You'll just have to agree with Mrs. Andy that any risk to your children are acceptable, but as far as taking her along too, don't make her go if she doesn't want to - the motivation should come from her. I once made the mistake of encouraging my (now ex) wife to sit in the back of my microlight shortly after I got my licence to fly it. She reluctantly agreed but, immediately after take-off, she got all hysterical and convinced herself that she was going to die. I flew the shortest circuit to land that I could but I wished that I never encouraged her in the first place.

I suggest that if you have any doubts about your children's ability to behave and not distract you with their over-excitedness, that you take someone with you who you know to be comfortable in the aeroplane and you trust to keep the children under control while you concentrate on looking after the flight. Once you know that they are OK you can dispense with that person.
If your wife is nervous then she might not be the best person to do this for the first flight - you might end up looking after the entire family while you fly the plane. Alternatively, having to look after the children might take her mind off being nervous. You know her and I don't so you'll have to decide that one.

[Aussie Andy]

Hi guys,

Wow, well this has really got me thinking. I'm definitely doing it for the "wrong" reasons... i.e. its me that wants them to come flying so I can share my excitement and sense of achievement with them, and because I hope they will also like it enough so that we can all share trips together.

So we're definitely feeding needs, not theirs... I'll sit down and have a long chat with my wife to go over this ground together.

I like the idea of taking the girls up with an instructor... Shame I can't fly any 5-seat types as one of the big fears is that something would happen to the girls without her being present... Maybe I should just send her and the girls up with an instructor and without me.

Andy

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: Aussie Andy ]

[A7E Driver]

Just a quick word of advice on taking up people for the first time when you are relatively low time (or even vey experienced). They will be nervous -- and so will you. Keep the the flight short --- 20 minutes or so is fine for a first encounter. Do not demonstrate steep turns or show that pushing the yoke forward causes a sense of weightlessness --- or pulling back causes g's. Save all that demo stuff for the follow-on flights. Stick to 30 degrees AOB max and very gentle maneuvers to ensure you guest/family has an enjoyable first flight. Sightseeing is the key. (Be sure to bring seat cushions so the kids can see out the window.) Too many guys scare the heck out of guests on first flights by trying to demonstrate the performance envelope of the a/c. They don't want to know that (yet). Congrats. Hope it goes well.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Hi Andy,

After I had passed my PPL(H) I decided that I wouldn't take anyone with me until I had 60 hours under my belt, then I took a good friend with me on a roundabout 1.5hr jolly, a few flying hours later I took my eldest boy, just as we achieved transistional flight it hit me like a bolt of lightning, the thought that if I F*$ked up my boy would be along side of me, I have never had a feeling like it, I did eveything by the book, I felt nervous, and actually curtailed the flight, dont ask me to explain it, cos I can't, I talked a lot to others about this but they all put it down to just one of those things, however I think it was the sudden realisation of what would happen if things went bad, I have since taken my boys with me several time's and the feeling has never returned. The only thing I will say, being a dad to five is, be very careful, you are carrying the most precious passengers in the world, make your pre-flight extra careful, check the weather extra careful, and ensure that you land with what you left with, I hope you and they all enjoy the flight!

My Regards

[JP5A]

Never put all your baskets in one egg!!

[Southern Cross]

AA

I wouldn't necessarially agree that your wife and kids fly with someone else - no point in that at all, at least that's what I would think. But if you are going to do the flight, perhaps with your wife only at first, leaving your children in suspense for another day?

Another thing - its funny what we might take for granted that, said wrongly, sounds worrying to a non-pilot. When my (then girlfriend, now wife) flew with me for the first time in a PA28 to Le Touquet from Denham, after takeoff I mentioned that since two sets of eyes are always better than one, if she happended to notice any other aeroplanes in the air, she should let me know. This went down like a cup of cold sick. The implication drawn by my nearest and dearest was that (i) planes could come from anywhere, (ii) they do so often, (iii) there is a material risk of collision and the air is dangerous and (iv) why the h*ll are you not looking out isn't that your damn job and by the way, where are the snacks and the drinks???

SO what started off as (at least in my view) a smart "note to passengers", ended up as a bit of a disaster.

So watch what you say and when, and take extra time to explain why you suggest various things, since a pleasure flight over your house is a pretty bad reason to have a marital bust up!

[Mister Gash]

Did it shortly after gaining my licence. Kids were so utterly bored by the whole thing that they fell asleep after 15 minutes. The only question the wife asked was, after about 20 minutes: “Is there anything in this thing to read?”

She declined my offer of the flight manual so I cut the sortie short, dropped them back at the field, and pi$$ed off on my own for the afternoon. Never again.

Gash

[Whirlybird]

Andy,

I don't have a spouse and kids to take flying, but I've taken other people's and it's exhausting to say the least. Inexperienced passengers tend to be nervous and/or excited, and it's distracting - read the thread on distracting pax on this forum. I wouldn't take more than one passenger at a time till you've got a few more hours under your belt. Everything in flying comes down to spare capacity - you need to know for certain that flying doesn't take up so much of your concentration that you don't have enough left to deal with whatever passengers throw at you in the way of nerves, chat, sickness etc; and be assured they will. I'm not saying don't do it; just maybe not yet.

[Toppers]

Aussie Andy,

As a regular flyer with the wife and kids I can highly recommend it and cannot help feeling that there is an air of OVERcautiousness in this thread.

You admit your level of experience is not that high and that you promised 10 hours P1 before taking the wife and kids. I admire the fact that you clearly thought about it and made your own parameters before taking them up.

Kids of seven years old do not just panic especially if they have been properly briefed on what to expect. Your wife will not be particularly interested in what YOU are doing either.She will enjoy the take-off, the landing and the view. Apart from that she will not be interested or impressed with anything else you are doing to keep the a/c in the sky so you'll have plenty of time to concentrate.

Meanwhile you will be giving your kids the experience of a lifetime. How often do we read in the flying magazines about how we should all take the time to take a child flying. Well if you cant take your own why bother taking someone elses.

A A, you have spent a lot of time and money on your licence, if you want to take them up then bloody well go. Surely the smiles on your girls faces will make the whole licence worthwhile doing.

PS. Don't forget to travel in separate cars to the flying club, it could be dangerous to all go together.

[Aussie Andy]

Toppers:

Thanks for the encouraging note The kids will enjoy it, I'm sure - but I am going to make sure my wife is comfortable with the exercise as well.

Whirlybird:
Re- taking plane-full of people, have managed 3 trips to date with 4 people in the plane - on the longest of these (Wycome -> Wolvermpton -> Wycombe) I was the only pilot, so pretty comfortable at this stage with the overall workload.

On that trip, I was surprised at how nervous I felt on the takeoff roll (had never previously felt like that!) but settled down pretty quickly once we were under way. I think it was an overwhelming sense of responsibility (not a bad thing)... this will no doubt be more so when I have my own flesh & blood along for the ride!

BTW, totally impressed with the number and quality of responses toi my question in single afternoon... PPRUNE RULES, OK!

Andy

[Keef]

It depends very much on how interested the family is in flying.

I've taken all mine - even mother and mother-in-law, now sadly long-departed. Most of them were either bored stiff or petrified. Mother in law thought it fabulous - we flew over the local area and she was thrilled to see her house and all her friends houses from above. I was amazed at how well she recognised places she'd never seen from that angle.

Daughters won't fly with me - it's too boring. Wife will, gladly, if we're going somewhere interesting. Even then, there's a threshold of pain at about 2½ hours airborne time. She won't wear a headset cos it's claustrophobic.

So - if you feel confident that you can handle it, take them - one at a time - and see how it works out. If they fall asleep, they aren't afraid.

[bcfc]

Hi Aussie

I'm 10+ hrs post PPL myself and have taken all the family now except the kids. My 6yr old is dying to go up but I'm waiting for a nice calm day where I can take my wife too, just in case he freaks out. I don't have any quams (sp?) about taking them as I take as much care as possible even when I'm solo and I feel the car is just as dangerous and I pack 'em in my jallopee (sp, again?) every day.
However, I left out the steep turns over home when I took my mum up the other day and made an early go around when my first approach was a bit high - I decided the landing had to be perfect for the old girl.
What I didn't tell her was that the chap who took the plane after us had to force land and stuff it in a hedge (he was fine). Some things are best left alone.

bcfc

[LAN]

...and on the lighter side :

When I met my girlfriend, she knew I was a pilot, but apart from my never being at home (we have a clock in the kitchen labelled "Pilots' Time" - it runs half speed ), she did not pay much attention to my job.

One day, I decided to surprise her, so without her knowing where we were heading, we drove to the airfield. As we went up the driveway, she asked with a big smile "We're going flying?". Her enthusiasm didn't abate when she saw the aircraft - a Bellanca (a true taildragger - very romantic ). She did not seem anxious as we strapped in, the expression on her face changing between expectation and curiousness (for a moment, I thought it might be the look of sheer terror - but quickly discarded the thought )

From the moment we took off, she was taken in by it all. After 10 min. of total silent flight, she said "I thought that what you say about bond between man and machine was bu*lsh*t...you really feel at home doing this, right?" I admitted defiantly. I asked her if she would like to fly. She accepted, and for the next half hour, we trundeled about, rediscovering the art of flight - and every lesson was rewarded with the request for more : "How do you turn?" - "What about the speed thingie?". No offence ment to any former student who might read this, but I have never enjoyed instructing so much as I did then!

Before heading home, I asked her if she would like to change perspective and fly inverted. "You know what you're doing?", she asked. I confirmed, and we rolled. Utter silence from the front seat again - then the softest "Oh" I have ever heard over an intercom. And she let go of the frame, letting her arms hang above her head.

Need I say that after this flight, she feels very much at home in all aircraft (inverted or not). I am never short of a co-pilot on my private flights, and she's starting PPL training in the spring...

So, AA, my advice to you is NEVER, under NO CIRCUMSTANCE, to take your missus flying. She might invade your hobby


Happy flying to you and all your family,

Ivan the Horrible

[Cusco]

AA

Another slight change of perspective..
8 or 9 years ago number 1 son, courtsey of HMG flying scholarship and a few more hours paid for by doting parents got his PPL aged 17 several months before his driving licence.

Onday less than a month post PPL we all went back to his flying school where after a 2 hour conversion on a Warrior (did his PPL on a C152) and with only 52 horrs said son took me, his 15y.o. sister and Mrs Cusco for a one hour flight in what I (and I wasn't a PPL at this time) felt was pretty marginal weather.

I have to admit to being the one egging him on as had never been in a SEL. He wasn't su sure but he did it.

Result? I got hooked, booked in (to a different flying school nearerto where we lived and got my PPL in five months through the sh*tty winter of 92/93.

My daughter found the whole flight *boring* and slept for most of it.

Oh and Mrs Cusco? : she was scared sh*less by my sons demonstretion of some of the A/c envelope edge characteristics, arrived back on the ground with bleeding palms and has never been in a SEL again.

Which is a great pity as I mostly flo alone or with friends (and children) to some wonderful places including good ole LFAT for lunch and Mrs C misses out.

So send em up with an instructor (without you) on anearly morning or late evening flight on a still winters day when the air is like treacle.

Then when they disembark, observe their body language, don't ask them how they got on but wait for them to speak first. Then you'll know.............


Happy Flying.

[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: Cusco ]

[A and C]

All above is good advice but the drive round the M25 to the airfield holds far more danger than a flight in a light aircraft the only differance is that if you are killed on the motorway your death wont make the papers !.