Light Aircraft down in Oxfordshire (Merged)

[El Grifo]

I have carried out loads of Aerial Photography shoots in the UK and Spain. I always take along friends family or clients for the ride.

Not one single aircraft operator has prevented me from doing this, or pointed out that it is in any way against the law.

What do you think Binks. Aviation is chock full of rogues, or you have your facts wrong.

[Just a spotter]

Apologies if this has already been posted and removed and with best wishes for a speedy recovery to all those involved

Officials investigating the cause of the crash involving a light aircraft in which former UKIP leader Nigel Farage was a passenger have released their initial findings.

They say the crash was cause by the aircraft having too much right wing.

No, don't get up, I'll let myself out ....

JAS

[boguing]

I've not seen any mention .. one of the images pre-flight shows a fairly heavy looking bag/case and sundry equipment laid loosely behind Mr Farage. If it took off like that, and there is a significant tube down back? 2p.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

As has already been pointed out, it could have been a genuine private flight.

No it couldn't. Banner towing is classed as aerial work, just as flying to Spain with your favourite airline is public transport. If Ryanair offered free seats would that make it a private flight? No it wouldn't.

But, as no other regular contributor is going to fall into the trap of entering a long discussion regarding private flights, aerial work or public transport flights neither am I.

You'll just have to read it up for yourself.

KR

FOK

[T-21]

This accident occurred at 08:00Am. looking at press photos and TV coverage I question a. Was there any manned fire/crash truck at that time of the morning b. Who was supervising/or was their adequate supervision of the press on an active airfield c. Even if you rescue a person from an aircraft wreckage they should not be allowed to walk about after,again supervision of the accident site. There are lessons to be learn't from this.

[Capvermell]

The photographer obviously has no moral compass whatsoever

Why on earth are they taking photgraphs of the gentleman concerned, whilst there are people trapped in the wreckage of the aircraft and in obvious urgent need of medical assistance? I can understand in the aftermath, but there are several disturbing shots where rarther than photographing, they should have dropped the cameras and run to offer assistance.

I think you have failed to consider the possibility that UKIP and/or Mr Farage's agent may have been perfectly happy for these photos to be published on the basis of the old theory that "all publicity is good publicity"

Also the photographers were specifically invited to the airfield and requested to take photos of the UKIP aircraft. When something dramatic happens to the aircraft and/or its occupants you cannot expect news photographers not to also record that too. In addition as it was established early on that the injuries of both Mr Farage and the pilot were not life threatening there was no possibility that the publication of the photos could be considered as being ghoulish etc, etc.

I think it is pretty commonplace for photographs of adult survivors of crashes who have not suffered loss of limbs or other extreme trauma to be pictured in newspaper photos. Showing pictures of dead bodies is an altogether different game that normally requires very explicit permission from the next of kin.

The bottom line is would Nigel Farage be offended by the publication of these photos and I have to say that almost certainly he would not and indeed will no doubt be dining out on stories of this crash and how he cheated death for many years to come.

[T-21]

Sask,
Agree totally with your comments. Preserving life is the number one priority in any accident not standing around taking photos.

[bookworm]

No it couldn't. Banner towing is classed as aerial work, just as flying to Spain with your favourite airline is public transport. If Ryanair offered free seats would that make it a private flight? No it wouldn't.
...
You'll just have to read it up for yourself.

You should take your own advice FOK. Your example flight is public transport specifically by virtue of Art 260(2)(b), which treats a flight as public transport if

(ii) the flight is operated by the holder of a national air operator’s certificate or an EU-
OPS air operator certificate and any passengers or cargo are carried gratuitously in
the aircraft except for [employees of the operator] or [the operator's own] cargo

(These days, Ryanair's flight is classed as commercial air transport and covered by EU-OPS, not by the operating requirements of the ANO.)

Banner towing is not "classed as" aerial work. Whether or not a flight is aerial work or private depends, by Art 259, on the giving or promise of valuable consideration for the flight or purpose of the flight. The absence of valuable consideration means that the flight is not aerial work.

[NutLoose]

There is a sequence of photos of the crash and their recovery, two very very lucky people, see

Nigel Farage of Ukip plane crash: in pictures - Telegraph

[A and C]

The morality of continuing to take photos of an accident rather depends on if the photographer can be of any use in the helping the victims escape from the aircraft.

If it is clear that enough help is on hand then it is hard to see why a news photographer should not continure to work, it is another matter if the photographer is the only sorce of help.

The morality of the publication of the photographs of an accident is another matter.

[bnt]

Farage has just been released from hospital, and told Sky News a bit more about what happened. Something went wrong with the banner pickup and it got wrapped round the tail. The pilot spent about five minutes circling and trying to sort it, before trying to land. Farage has some bruising, broken ribs, sternum, and a chipped vertebra, but the pain killers seemed to be working.

[Flying Lawyer]

Chuffer

Guys, guys, guys..
It matters not whether the flight was illegal or not. A serious accident has happened, 2 people have been seriously injured and here we are, as usual, bickering amongst ourselves. It's quite sad really if you stand back and read it..

If it's illegal, I'm sure the relevant authorities are on the case. If not, let the AAIB investigate and decide what happened. Its not going to change anything.

I agree it's sad.
Unfortunately, it's not unusual on PPRuNe. I have never understood why people are always so quick to try to find some (supposed) illegality by fellow aviators.

[windriver]

Something went wrong with the banner pickup and it got wrapped round the tail.

This doesn`t suprise me. I could imagine a situation where (for example) the banner might have snagged on pick up leading to a portion of the banner/line/hook assembly breaking and the remaining portion either "whiplashing" around the tail assembly or bouncing off the ground and getting caught up in the tail somewhere.

Speculation of course, but as I mentioned in an earlier post I had a banner snag in (not very long) grass on pickup, things happen very fast and the bits of banner that remain attached, and their subsequent movements may not be conducive to continued full control of the aircraft.

My instinct is that this will turn out to be primarily a case of "bad luck" in what remains in my view a moderately high risk activity, rather than anything else.

Can`t comment on their operation, but regarding the carriage of passengers our AOC was very specific. "No persons other than the pilot to be carried except for the purposes of training or testing blah blah... "

[Molesworth 1]

What tabloid newspaper could be described as having a "moral compass"?

I assume though, that the Daily Mail had Mr Farage's permission to publish the photos. The shot of him standing there in shock with blood streaming down his face is a fantastic photograph, capturing the emotion of the moment perfectly. "I'm scared, I'm scared, I'm scared".

Poor man, the earlier photos show him bristling with excited anticipation - the last thing he expected was to emerge terrified from a near-death experience!

The picking up of banner manoeuvre seems really risky, in my opinion

[Miroku]

Nice to hear that Nigel Farage has left hospital but does anyone have any news concerning the condition of the pilot?

[Capvermell]

Some explanation of the relatively favourable outcome to the crash has been given by Nigel Farage in this just published article on the Daily Mail website.

Essentially after the banner wrapped around the tail the pilot had severe difficulties controlling the plane and knew that he could not land without nosing over and landing on the ground head down. I assume this meant the pilot located the softest possible landing spot and got as close as possible to the ground before attempting to execute the maneouvre. Even so the fact that the engine ripped clean off on impact and did not ignite the significant amount of fuel on board seems to have been largely a matter of luck.

See 'I must be the luckiest man alive'

As he described the accident for the first time today Mr Farage, who had cuts to his nose and lip, revealed they had known five minutes in advance they were going to crash. He said: 'You have to take off, and then you have to pick up the banner. But something went wrong. 'Basically the banner hooked around the tail of the plane which meant that whenever he came in to land, it would be a nose-dive landing. 'So we spent five minutes knowing we were in for a crash landing and the question was just how big and bad it was going to be.'

[Pilot Positive]

to be primarily a case of "bad luck" in what remains in my view a moderately high risk activity, rather than anything else.

Yes and wouldnt the nature of high risk activites be conducive to eliminating as much risk as possible and therefore removing the possibility of "bad luck"? Not sure carrying a pax in this inherently high risk activity was supporting that....and will no doubt form part of any AAIB investigation.

I wish both a very speedy recovery and the best of health.

[heli-cal]

Whilst it is indeed good news that the pilot and passenger both survived, it will be great news if the pilot makes a complete recovery.

Looks to be a tough airframe that protected the crew from some incredible impact forces!

[Glider21]

If I had sufficient pitch authority to control the aircraft which the 5 minutes circling would imply, but thought the landing would be difficult, I think I would talk to D&D and go somewhere with full rescue services available such as Cranfield or Oxford rather than Hinton. Also I may be mistaken but was surprised to see that the pilot appeared to be wearing shorts and flip flops.

As a glider tug pilot we are specifically forbidden from carrying anyone apart from during training or check flights due entirely to the higher risk involved.

[Basil]

I believe that, in the final stages, pitch authority was non existent.

does anyone have any news concerning the condition of the pilot?

I understand that he has been discharged from hospital with cuts and bruises and burns on his arm from the engine exhaust. No reports of the back injuries which were feared.