Light Aircraft down in Oxfordshire (Merged)
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TankerTrashNav
I'm intrigued to know how banner flying is normally carried out. When you've seen banner pick-ups before is it usually the case that the aircraft takes off, completes a circuit without the banner, then comes in low with a hook to pick it up, presumably at a reasonable airspeed to counter the additional drag of the banner ? But then there's a risk, when approaching so low, of snagging on the banner if it blows about in the wind as you approach it (a crosswind was reported) ?
Or is it usual for the aircraft to take off with the banner already attached, as suggested in BBC reporting, and therefore poses a risk in a crosswind of the banner being snagged on objects beside the runway if there are any ? Either way I'm relieved to hear that both pilot and passenger seem OK.
Having flown in to Hinton I know it has a 700m tarmac strip for fixed wing take-offs and landings and large grass area for gliding beside it, which appears to be where the aircraft has crashed.
I'm intrigued to know how banner flying is normally carried out. When you've seen banner pick-ups before is it usually the case that the aircraft takes off, completes a circuit without the banner, then comes in low with a hook to pick it up, presumably at a reasonable airspeed to counter the additional drag of the banner ? But then there's a risk, when approaching so low, of snagging on the banner if it blows about in the wind as you approach it (a crosswind was reported) ?
Or is it usual for the aircraft to take off with the banner already attached, as suggested in BBC reporting, and therefore poses a risk in a crosswind of the banner being snagged on objects beside the runway if there are any ? Either way I'm relieved to hear that both pilot and passenger seem OK.
Having flown in to Hinton I know it has a 700m tarmac strip for fixed wing take-offs and landings and large grass area for gliding beside it, which appears to be where the aircraft has crashed.
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I think I've answered my own question - towing aircraft take off, circuit, then come in low to pick up the banner. Coincidentally this aircraft has been the subject of an AAIB investigation before - see http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...DF%2010-06.pdf
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The main hazard on a banner pick up is getting the tow rope caught around one of the wheels, which means you can't release it, which can cause a multitude of problems. The other hazard is catching the banner on an obstruction during the climb out, my recollection was the performance data was very inaccurate, sometimes you were lucky if you could get 150ft/min climb. It's supprising that the CAA didn't ban it years ago, or at lease review the safety aspects.
I regularly fly at Hinton and can confirm that there is a 700m tarmac strip (RWY 24/06 "Hard") and 3 grass strips (RWY 24/06 "Grass", RWY 33/15 "Grass" and RWY 27/06 "Grass"). From the looks of the pictures it took off from Runway 27 "Grass" which is about 750m long.
Here is a pic of the airfield, which is unlicensed:
In my opinion, banner towing in light aircraft is a mug's game. If you cannot release the banner when the engine coughs, or if the banner catches something, then there is only one way you are going; straight down. Aerotowing of gliders is somewhat better because at least the glider can fly and reduce your drag if required!
Good to hear that the injuries aren't too bad.
LJ
Here is a pic of the airfield, which is unlicensed:
In my opinion, banner towing in light aircraft is a mug's game. If you cannot release the banner when the engine coughs, or if the banner catches something, then there is only one way you are going; straight down. Aerotowing of gliders is somewhat better because at least the glider can fly and reduce your drag if required!
Good to hear that the injuries aren't too bad.
LJ
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Banner Towing Videos
Some example banner towing vid's on YouTube:
Ocean City banner towing
Banner Towing with the STOL CH 701
Banner Towing and Pickups
Shows some of the techniques.
Ocean City banner towing
Banner Towing with the STOL CH 701
Banner Towing and Pickups
Shows some of the techniques.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Wilga incident.
(Never towed banners.) Fun aircraft to fly - excellent short field performance (even with a glider on the back) - 'Polish Corporal' landing technique (aim at ground and pull back when you think you are near enough). Do not get slow on approach due anti-torque from long wide-chord prop. Best wishes to both occupants.
One thing to add to LJ's post is that there is a set of 50-100ftish power lines in the undershoot of Runways 06 and Runway 09 (typo of 06 in his post) - I do hope the pilot didn't get the banner caught in those as that would definately spoil his day on take off!!!
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Are you allowed to have pax onboard for towing flights?
Ref: CAA CAP 393, Part 17, Section 128(1).
Dave
The flight was illegal.
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I fly model aeroplanes from Dunsfold Aerodrome near Cranleigh in Surrey. For some years there was a chap who did occasional banner towing in a Wilga. The technique was to take off, double back, and fly low with a hook dangling on a line to catch another line strung between two poles. If the banner was caught, which it wasn't always, the pilot then pushed the throttle to the stop and went off as near vertical as he seemed to be able to achieve. Some of the antics involved in doing this looked to me to be close to the limits of physics and the airframe. Though I'm neither a pilot nor an engineer, at least, not of full-size aeroplanes.
The fun all stopped a year or two back when the pilot noticed creaking coming from above his head in flight. Investigation on landing showed that the mainspar was not entirely in one piece. The plane then disappeared, presumably back to Poland for refettling. Mind you a similar plane has recently been seen at the airfield and it is blue, so perhaps the one involved here.
Why can't you just take off with the banner stowed somewhere, and deploy the thing at height? It would at least give you a chance to deal with SNAFUs at altitude.
The fun all stopped a year or two back when the pilot noticed creaking coming from above his head in flight. Investigation on landing showed that the mainspar was not entirely in one piece. The plane then disappeared, presumably back to Poland for refettling. Mind you a similar plane has recently been seen at the airfield and it is blue, so perhaps the one involved here.
Why can't you just take off with the banner stowed somewhere, and deploy the thing at height? It would at least give you a chance to deal with SNAFUs at altitude.
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landing gear failure?
The last UK accident involving this aircraft type was blamed on a failure of a trailing link on the undercarrage, which led to the plane nosing over onto its back on landing, as in this case.
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Binks I'm not convinced you are correct, as long as your not charging the pax for the flight, but just the banner tow, then I can't see how it is illegal. The extra weight and performance would be my concern. It's similar to someone paying for a trial lesson in a C172 and putting two pax in the back, not that I agree with that.
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Sorry but you are NOT allowed to have pax on towing flights. For that you need an AOC (paying passenger) and no AOC would allow banner towing at the same time.
The flight was illegal.
The flight was illegal.
Clearly Mr Farage did not buy a ticket as a normal passenger to be flown anywhere on the plane. He merely chartered the plane to display the banner and then flew on board to give instructions about the areas in which the aerial display of the banner should take place.
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Why can't you just take off with the banner stowed somewhere, and deploy the thing at height? It would at least give you a chance to deal with SNAFUs at altitude.
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Can't really see that the extra weight of a Euro-sceptic politician would influence things that much. The Wilga at our club routinely tows half a ton of Grob Acro (all up weight), accelerating from a standing start pretty smartish, and climbing perfectly happily thereafter at 4-500 fpm. So 75 kg in the right hand seat isn't going to make much difference with a beast like the Wilga.
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Banner Towing is Aerial Work.
You cannot take passengers on an Aerial work flight unless they are employees of the company that owns the aeroplane.
The flight was illegal.
You cannot take passengers on an Aerial work flight unless they are employees of the company that owns the aeroplane.
The flight was illegal.
I must say that when I first heard of this accident my immediate reaction was that I was very surprised that the UKIP leader was on board the aircraft rather than just watching the display with fellow party members from the ground.
I would imagine that there are going to be a lot of consequences for the banner flying industry in the UK as a result of this accident.
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Can't really see that the extra weight of a Euro-sceptic politician would influence things that much. The Wilga at our club routinely tows half a ton of Grob Acro (all up weight), accelerating from a standing start pretty smartish, and climbing perfectly happily thereafter at 4-500 fpm. So 75 kg in the right hand seat isn't going to make much difference with a beast like the Wilga.
Remember the case of the Air France A320 that crashed in to a forest at the other end of the runway while overflying a General Aviation airfield (where the A320 was not actually able to land) at low altitude with a full complement of passengers on board. Passengers were forbidden from being carried on such exhibition flights involving commercial aircraft as a direct result of this accident.
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There were passengers being carried by this banner flying pilot during earlier banner flying flights before he was then involved in a later fatal crash while towing on a banner on his own.
I do not see any reference in the AAIB report on the accident to the carrying of passengers being illegal during banner towing operations.
See http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...AC%2006-06.pdf
I do not see any reference in the AAIB report on the accident to the carrying of passengers being illegal during banner towing operations.
See http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...AC%2006-06.pdf