I-Pad - almost useless as an EFB
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Because it is vastly time consuming to do so. It requires a department full of people to extract and compile the data and then turn it into a common format.
It would need some serious effort to get into which is sadly why Jepp remain the current game in town sadly.
It would need some serious effort to get into which is sadly why Jepp remain the current game in town sadly.
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gCap already do this for category A aircraft for the whole of the UK and near Europe for a very reasonable cost in electronic or paper form although I dont think you can integrate the electronic form with a GPS in the same way as Jepp does.
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I always thought GCAP were running a difficult business model, because with their limited geographical coverage they are really addressing just the IMC Rated population, which is IMHO maximum 1k-2k IFR-active pilots, and it is so easy for these to download the free plates, or (as many do) get Jepp plates from a commercial pilot friend.
But even if GCAP did say all of Europe, they would still be facing a problem:
- all seriously commercially operating pilots get worldwide Jeppview at work, which is the de facto world standard, and which is purchased without a question
- of the private pilots who fly IFR internationally, many have commercial pilot friends who give them Jepp plates
- some private pilots are willing/able to pay for Jeppview; these tend to buy what they actually need, and borrow plates, or download the free national plates for the less common trips
This leaves just private pilots not willing/able to pay for Jeppview, but who don't like the national plates.
The customer base is not going to be great... I cannot believe they would have as much as 1k customers, and that's assuming they covered all of Europe.
I've been reading some stuff on American pilot forums, where they have been testing the Ipad. The general tone is that it is OK if you can eliminate reflections, by orientating the LCD. This is the same issue as any shiny laptop.
But even if GCAP did say all of Europe, they would still be facing a problem:
- all seriously commercially operating pilots get worldwide Jeppview at work, which is the de facto world standard, and which is purchased without a question
- of the private pilots who fly IFR internationally, many have commercial pilot friends who give them Jepp plates
- some private pilots are willing/able to pay for Jeppview; these tend to buy what they actually need, and borrow plates, or download the free national plates for the less common trips
This leaves just private pilots not willing/able to pay for Jeppview, but who don't like the national plates.
The customer base is not going to be great... I cannot believe they would have as much as 1k customers, and that's assuming they covered all of Europe.
I've been reading some stuff on American pilot forums, where they have been testing the Ipad. The general tone is that it is OK if you can eliminate reflections, by orientating the LCD. This is the same issue as any shiny laptop.
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I0540 - yes I would agree so far as Gcap is concerned although I do know a little more about them than we have discussed here.
and yes, since it would seem the iPad does not use either of the two available screen technologies that reduce reflection I would be surprised if the iPad was any better, or any worse, than the average notepad or laptop - in short not very good. Whilse some of the add on screen filters improve matters marginally in my experience the improvement is hardly worth the effort. It is interesting that Bose thinks otherwise based on his experience of actually using an iPad in the cockpit so perhaps they have managed to tweak the existing technology a little - I understand the screens are reasonably bright and use a higher than average resolution both of which might help just a very little.
The Garmin and Avidyne panel screens are really superb. I think the Garmin is marginally better but I bet some one will be along to tell me both companies use the same panel! I wonder. Interestingly in the marine wrold Raymarine have produced some very good sun light readable products for quite a while that are very well priced. Again they are not portable but it does demonstrate the basic panel can be built into to this type of product without a significant increase in the unit cost.
and yes, since it would seem the iPad does not use either of the two available screen technologies that reduce reflection I would be surprised if the iPad was any better, or any worse, than the average notepad or laptop - in short not very good. Whilse some of the add on screen filters improve matters marginally in my experience the improvement is hardly worth the effort. It is interesting that Bose thinks otherwise based on his experience of actually using an iPad in the cockpit so perhaps they have managed to tweak the existing technology a little - I understand the screens are reasonably bright and use a higher than average resolution both of which might help just a very little.
The Garmin and Avidyne panel screens are really superb. I think the Garmin is marginally better but I bet some one will be along to tell me both companies use the same panel! I wonder. Interestingly in the marine wrold Raymarine have produced some very good sun light readable products for quite a while that are very well priced. Again they are not portable but it does demonstrate the basic panel can be built into to this type of product without a significant increase in the unit cost.
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I think it is a case of the cockpit that you use it in. The iPad has proven to be easy to read in sunlight as the backlight is amazing. In my high wing Cessna it is perfectly readable and the same in the Dornier. I should imagine in a fishbowl type low wing like a TB20 or a DA40 that the reflections without a screen protector would make it more reflection sensitive. The screen protector that I used on the unit is actually quite matte but I preferred it glossy so removed it.
As I said, probably horses for courses, but my experience so far has been very good. I will report as I progress with it.
As I said, probably horses for courses, but my experience so far has been very good. I will report as I progress with it.
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Bose
Yes, fair comment.
I use a notepad very occasionally - in the 42 it is always difficult to read whereas in the Cirrus its better. Glass canopies are always a problem. I wouldnt say the TB20 is really any different from the Cirrus mind you or your Cessna.
Yes, fair comment.
I use a notepad very occasionally - in the 42 it is always difficult to read whereas in the Cirrus its better. Glass canopies are always a problem. I wouldnt say the TB20 is really any different from the Cirrus mind you or your Cessna.
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The Garmin and Avidyne panel screens are really superb. I think the Garmin is marginally better but I bet some one will be along to tell me both companies use the same panel! I wonder. Interestingly in the marine wrold Raymarine have produced some very good sun light readable products for quite a while that are very well priced. Again they are not portable but it does demonstrate the basic panel can be built into to this type of product without a significant increase in the unit cost.
A much larger battery = more expensive and heavier, both of which generally reduce the appeal of the units.
For most users of these devices, sunlight readability isn't a major concern....it's just us pilots that see an issue.
Some of the car nav units, have very good sunlight readable screens (high end Navigons for example) because they are designed to be used where sunlight gets at them (car windscreen), but obviously these are too small for showing approach plates on.
dp
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Dp
Yes, again I agree.
However, it is possible to produce very good and very lgiht sun light readable screens. For example I have seen the Motion notepad in operation and while it is no where near as good as the G1000 or Avidyne screen it is a great deal better than other notepads and more than useable.
It is interesting on the PocketFms forum despite various suggestions no one seems to have yet found a reasonable portable screen for in cockpit use that is any larger than the car SatNav format (with the exception of one or two high end notepads like the Motion) - unless I have missed the posts.
I would have thought there would be a market for a slightly larger screen for in car sat navs. I have always thought the ideal format would be around A5. I reckon a light weight unit with pretty good battery life could be produced (in fact come to think of it around the same size as an iPad) but presumably no one feels there is a worth while market (and maybe they are correct).
Yes, again I agree.
However, it is possible to produce very good and very lgiht sun light readable screens. For example I have seen the Motion notepad in operation and while it is no where near as good as the G1000 or Avidyne screen it is a great deal better than other notepads and more than useable.
It is interesting on the PocketFms forum despite various suggestions no one seems to have yet found a reasonable portable screen for in cockpit use that is any larger than the car SatNav format (with the exception of one or two high end notepads like the Motion) - unless I have missed the posts.
I would have thought there would be a market for a slightly larger screen for in car sat navs. I have always thought the ideal format would be around A5. I reckon a light weight unit with pretty good battery life could be produced (in fact come to think of it around the same size as an iPad) but presumably no one feels there is a worth while market (and maybe they are correct).
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The TB20 is not a goldfish bowl. Most of the ceiling is opaque, and grey in colour. This is typical of most low wing planes. But sunshine is sunshine; it gets everywhere and sometimes - at high altitude - I struggle to keep the stuff out, so I have suction pad mounted sunshields (Halfords) on the side windows.
The Diamonds are different, as is a Tomahawk and a few others.
The construction of a "sunlight readable" LCD is not something I have yet sussed out but it is a kind of a normal LCD with several layers stuck on the front. The whole lot is polarised so that at the end you the the image but the reflections of incident light get dumped. Some salesman was telling me that if you peel off these layers, you don't see the image at all, which I found bizzare, but it may be true. The extra cost of all this is about £200 on most tablets which offer this as an option. I am certain that the G1000 and similar glass avionics use this technology too, although if you have unlimited power then you can achieve any desired contrast simply with a powerful backlight, and a darkened front layer.
There is a pile of superb tablets around now, but nearly all of them don't offer this option.
The I-Pad will sure find uses but it is IMHO grossly over-rated for European aviation. It has loads more applications in GA in the USA, due to the abundance of free material out there. If they did it with a decent display, it would be superb.
The Diamonds are different, as is a Tomahawk and a few others.
The construction of a "sunlight readable" LCD is not something I have yet sussed out but it is a kind of a normal LCD with several layers stuck on the front. The whole lot is polarised so that at the end you the the image but the reflections of incident light get dumped. Some salesman was telling me that if you peel off these layers, you don't see the image at all, which I found bizzare, but it may be true. The extra cost of all this is about £200 on most tablets which offer this as an option. I am certain that the G1000 and similar glass avionics use this technology too, although if you have unlimited power then you can achieve any desired contrast simply with a powerful backlight, and a darkened front layer.
There is a pile of superb tablets around now, but nearly all of them don't offer this option.
The I-Pad will sure find uses but it is IMHO grossly over-rated for European aviation. It has loads more applications in GA in the USA, due to the abundance of free material out there. If they did it with a decent display, it would be superb.
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The Anywheremap Duo has a 7" sunlight-readable screen that can be used for many aviation applications, including approach plates, though it may be that others would prefer a larger screen. The device is based on a Viliv X70 but be aware that the sunlight-readable screen isn't available on normal retail versions, rather, they come on bulk orders only as far as I can ascertain. Anywheremap aren't interested in the European market but I would imagine there is nothing to stop you from trying to source one of these sunlight-readable devices and load European approach plates and other applications on it.
Anywhere Map - Aviation GPS with Weather
Just a thought.
VC10 Rib22
Anywhere Map - Aviation GPS with Weather
Just a thought.
VC10 Rib22
and could read an approach plate on a 7" screen 
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I am veiwing this thread with much interest as the only EFB I have ever used was c**p and that was in an airliner flight deck........... I on occassions so nearly opend the DV window and sent the thing crashing to the tarmac!
At the moment the answer for touring by light aircraft is one of the notebooks and a small printer, its all a lot smaller than a Jepp set and the printed plates won't fail when you most need them.
I look forward to the reliable EFB but for this end of GA I think it is a long way off.
At the moment the answer for touring by light aircraft is one of the notebooks and a small printer, its all a lot smaller than a Jepp set and the printed plates won't fail when you most need them.
I look forward to the reliable EFB but for this end of GA I think it is a long way off.
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For a bit of fun I was the UK (and Europe) agent for Anywhere map for a while. The software was excellent, but the coverage of Europe was poor. As the earlier poster commented they werent really interested in the European market - and I dont blame them. For me it was an eye opeing experience of the extent most pilots here want something for nothing. In the end PocketFms produces as good (if not now better) software and their maps have always been far superior so far as European coverage is concerned. The point of the post is that Anywhere were a very good company with which to deal and the discounts were generous. I had a good look at their notepad - it would seem to be an excellent product, although I never got to see one in the "flesh".
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In the end PocketFms produces as good (if not now better) software and their maps have always been far superior so far as European coverage is concerned.
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ipad as an efb
i have been trying to figure out what are the best apps to load onto my ipad to use as an efb . i have access to jeppview . am an airline capt 737 . thanks in advance .
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The Ipad won't run any PC (windoze) software, e.g. Jepp.
It will run only apps specially written for it.
If you want a tablet computer which runs Jeppview then you need one which runs windoze XP or similar.
It will run only apps specially written for it.
If you want a tablet computer which runs Jeppview then you need one which runs windoze XP or similar.
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I bought an Ipad for my daughter when they had just been released and I completely disagree with any negative comments towards the device. It is intuitive, light, fun, and far cheaper than the equivalent laptop.
An amazing device- my daughter, who is almost 8, loves it- and for my my part, unless you need to do some serious business/ typing, you are better off with an Ipad than a laptop.
I paid $646 + a carrying case. The equivalent Macbook would have been $500+ more.
I cannot underestimate how great I think this device is (and completely different from Collins 21 etc, I am not comparing the two) and I would, and have recommended them to my friends vs a laptop.
My 2c.
An amazing device- my daughter, who is almost 8, loves it- and for my my part, unless you need to do some serious business/ typing, you are better off with an Ipad than a laptop.
I paid $646 + a carrying case. The equivalent Macbook would have been $500+ more.
I cannot underestimate how great I think this device is (and completely different from Collins 21 etc, I am not comparing the two) and I would, and have recommended them to my friends vs a laptop.
My 2c.