Light aircraft crash in Andover (merged)
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Disappointed people, two people have lost their lives here, my thoughts are with them and their families.
As regards risk to aircraft, no one is sure of the layers of ash nor its density therefore it is reported surface to FL200. It will potentially cause faster blocking of air filters, abrasive wear to plastic screens and abrasion to additional abrasion to props.
As regards to cars, again if its in the air it will block any air filters faster than normal.
Don't forget if you have carb heat, when you have it on then the air filter is bi-passed so any abrasive ash is being sucked straight into the engine, the likely outcome is accelerated wear of any moving parts it comes into contact with. Therfore it may lead to premature failure.
An old instructor of mine, Dave Eccles at aero's, taught me "If there is any doubt then theres no doubt", Why put you or anyone else at risk if your not sure ?
As regards risk to aircraft, no one is sure of the layers of ash nor its density therefore it is reported surface to FL200. It will potentially cause faster blocking of air filters, abrasive wear to plastic screens and abrasion to additional abrasion to props.
As regards to cars, again if its in the air it will block any air filters faster than normal.
Don't forget if you have carb heat, when you have it on then the air filter is bi-passed so any abrasive ash is being sucked straight into the engine, the likely outcome is accelerated wear of any moving parts it comes into contact with. Therfore it may lead to premature failure.
An old instructor of mine, Dave Eccles at aero's, taught me "If there is any doubt then theres no doubt", Why put you or anyone else at risk if your not sure ?
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Had a great day out at Duxford Safety Day yesterday. Main speakers were from the CAA and NATS. A large number of light aircraft flew in and out and the Duxford Catalina did several displays. No known accidents so I guess the CAA and NATS are not concerned about light aircraft flying at lower levels and were proved right.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Maybe i wasn't direct enough, if your happy then fly, if your not 100% sure then wait.
I'm not having a pop at anybody, just making some logical observations about risks and hopefully most people will see that sensible flying is about minimising risk.
You won't eliminate the risk of flying unless you stay on the ground and if your here thats not the choice you've made is it?
I'm not having a pop at anybody, just making some logical observations about risks and hopefully most people will see that sensible flying is about minimising risk.
You won't eliminate the risk of flying unless you stay on the ground and if your here thats not the choice you've made is it?
nickyjsmith,
Your comments are eminently sensible and I agree with them entirely.
Unfortunately it doesn’t help me one iota in assessing the risk. The Met Office tells me that there is ash over the UK from SFC to FL350. The Notams say VFR OPERATORS SHOULD OPERATE EXTREME CAUTION AND MUST ASSURE THEMSELVES THAT THEIR FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER BEFORE FLYING but without giving the slightest clue about how to do that. People posting on Pprune say they have conducted flights below FL010 without (knowingly) encountering any ash. Perhaps they’re just lucky, or perhaps there isn’t any significant risk of ash damage at low levels. I don’t know, and I don’t know how to find out, in order that I may ASSURE (myself) THAT (my) FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER BEFORE FLYING.
It would be nice if some agency could manage a bit more precision in their forecast of ash for the next few hours in terms of levels where ash might be found and whether it might endanger SEP flight. If they can't predict anything, perhaps we could have a METAR - or perhaps an ASHAR - that tells us in more detail what's up there now. All the Volcanic Ash Advisory can manage is that there is some unspecified quantity of ash at some unspecified heights between SFC and FL200. Great help. Not.
Your comments are eminently sensible and I agree with them entirely.
Unfortunately it doesn’t help me one iota in assessing the risk. The Met Office tells me that there is ash over the UK from SFC to FL350. The Notams say VFR OPERATORS SHOULD OPERATE EXTREME CAUTION AND MUST ASSURE THEMSELVES THAT THEIR FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER BEFORE FLYING but without giving the slightest clue about how to do that. People posting on Pprune say they have conducted flights below FL010 without (knowingly) encountering any ash. Perhaps they’re just lucky, or perhaps there isn’t any significant risk of ash damage at low levels. I don’t know, and I don’t know how to find out, in order that I may ASSURE (myself) THAT (my) FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER BEFORE FLYING.
It would be nice if some agency could manage a bit more precision in their forecast of ash for the next few hours in terms of levels where ash might be found and whether it might endanger SEP flight. If they can't predict anything, perhaps we could have a METAR - or perhaps an ASHAR - that tells us in more detail what's up there now. All the Volcanic Ash Advisory can manage is that there is some unspecified quantity of ash at some unspecified heights between SFC and FL200. Great help. Not.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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You would be slightly hard pushed to "encounter ash" if the horizontal vis is as far as the eye can see to the horizon i.e. about 30-50nm.
The CAA and the MO are driven by ar*e covering. The MO cannot forecast a CB overhead their own HQ except as a PROB30 TEMPO.
Watch the situation develop over the next few days, when litigation by airlines will make the regulators sit up and listen. e.g. this.
The CAA and the MO are driven by ar*e covering. The MO cannot forecast a CB overhead their own HQ except as a PROB30 TEMPO.
Watch the situation develop over the next few days, when litigation by airlines will make the regulators sit up and listen. e.g. this.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
All,
Since there's a perfectly good thread about the volcanic ash cloud already running in PF (and another in R&N), why are you continuing to discuss it here?
Particularly as you are all convinced that the ash cloud had nothing to do with this incident.
Back on topic, please.
SD
Since there's a perfectly good thread about the volcanic ash cloud already running in PF (and another in R&N), why are you continuing to discuss it here?
Particularly as you are all convinced that the ash cloud had nothing to do with this incident.
Back on topic, please.
SD
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Strange.. BBC reporting that motorists saw the plane encountering problems...
Good flying weather, no major obstructions, on the way home from Duxford.... Sounds like a catastrophic structural failure or medical issue?
Good flying weather, no major obstructions, on the way home from Duxford.... Sounds like a catastrophic structural failure or medical issue?
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Shocked about your rambling on when two local people from Bournemouth sadly lost there life.
Yes it was from Duxford to Bournemouth.
I will not mention the type other than it may have been a microlight.
Sad day
Yes it was from Duxford to Bournemouth.
I will not mention the type other than it may have been a microlight.
Sad day
Join Date: Jul 2008
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As someone who knew and has reason to be very grateful to one of those who lost their life, I would echo Bournemouth Airs comments. I find it sad that for most posters this has turned into speculation and debate about volcanic ash rather that remembering that there are now two widows and children who have lost fathers.
To try and stem some of the speculation, the aircraft was based in Bournemouth and was a self build one, although not by the current owner.
My understanding is that volcanic ash was not the cause nor was it engine failure as such.
Many people locally are aware of the identities of those who lost their lives and the wider implications for many people in this area. We would extend our sympathy and prayers to the families involved.
poolebob
To try and stem some of the speculation, the aircraft was based in Bournemouth and was a self build one, although not by the current owner.
My understanding is that volcanic ash was not the cause nor was it engine failure as such.
Many people locally are aware of the identities of those who lost their lives and the wider implications for many people in this area. We would extend our sympathy and prayers to the families involved.
poolebob
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Can anybody elaborate on this accident, what type and or what is thought to have happened?
Even if anybody on here actually witnessed the event (which I doubt) I would expect them to hold their counsel for the AAIB inspectors.
Perlease let's not have the traditional ten pages of uninformed cr ap.
A friend of one of the deceased has already posted on here clearly upset.
Be patient 7AC; the AAIB report link will sure as hell appear on here within minutes of its publication.
Cusco
Last edited by Cusco; 19th Apr 2010 at 23:08.
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Like always, it is understandable that close friends of the deceased find some postings here hard to stomach, whilst those who are only reading this as fellow flyers wish to find out more, possibly learn from it, feel they are justified to ask questions and voice opinions.
The two sides will bicker no end over the purpose of a forum in this matter.
The pilot was able to issue a mayday it seems following smoke in the cockpit, according to an article on the Bournmouth Daily Echo website.
In-flight fires are notoriously dangerous but thankfully also rare. They do require an immediate Mayday and immediate landing. It seems the pilot did what he could.
The two sides will bicker no end over the purpose of a forum in this matter.
The pilot was able to issue a mayday it seems following smoke in the cockpit, according to an article on the Bournmouth Daily Echo website.
In-flight fires are notoriously dangerous but thankfully also rare. They do require an immediate Mayday and immediate landing. It seems the pilot did what he could.
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Cusco,
Unfortunately, where deaths have occurred, the AAIB will take ages over producing a report.
Just as it is not their job to apportion blame, certainly neither is it ours - but this should not stop us discussing an event which may affect how (or what) we fly in future.
So can we please pool what is known - surely that's what this forum is for?
Unfortunately, where deaths have occurred, the AAIB will take ages over producing a report.
Just as it is not their job to apportion blame, certainly neither is it ours - but this should not stop us discussing an event which may affect how (or what) we fly in future.
So can we please pool what is known - surely that's what this forum is for?
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I make no apology for asking the questions in my earlier post, nor do I take any offence
at any of the replies.
As I fly small aeroplanes a good deal and often behind the engine type fitted to the aeroplane
in this accident, purely as a matter of self preservation, I was keen to get some idea of what
may have happened.
From what I now know when preflighting this engine type I will be extremely thorough.
I also eagerly await the eventual AAIB report.
at any of the replies.
As I fly small aeroplanes a good deal and often behind the engine type fitted to the aeroplane
in this accident, purely as a matter of self preservation, I was keen to get some idea of what
may have happened.
From what I now know when preflighting this engine type I will be extremely thorough.
I also eagerly await the eventual AAIB report.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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From what I now know when preflighting this engine type I will be extremely thorough.
Like many others, also using the Rotax 912/914 and any advice would be useful even if it turns out not to relate to this particular incident.