Light aircraft crash in Andover (merged)
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Rotax exhausts tend to be have springs (with wire safety locking) holding components together so I imagine that these would help cushion any effects seen on some of the higher compression Ss.
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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Were all 3 "maintained" by the same company?
What was the age of the piston twins?
As I keep saying, Peter, one day an aeroplane will bite you, and you will realise that "maintenance" and "youth" are no great protection. I fear that you won't believe me until you experience it!
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Guys,
I can tell you now that this plane was in absolute tip top condition. Both on board were experienced pilots and very precise men (I know as one of them was my father). I am keen to understand people's theory on this, especially seeing as how another MCR-01 crashed under almost identical circumstances just 4 years ago according to AAIB in Lymington.
I can tell you now that this plane was in absolute tip top condition. Both on board were experienced pilots and very precise men (I know as one of them was my father). I am keen to understand people's theory on this, especially seeing as how another MCR-01 crashed under almost identical circumstances just 4 years ago according to AAIB in Lymington.
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twheeler
Condolences for your loss.
“MCR-01 crashed under almost identical circumstances just 4 years ago according to AAIB in Lymington.”
I am not aware of another similar accident to your fathers. The only similar incident of smoke in the cockpit (of an MCR01) that I could find was a French aircraft which had an electrical fire. The aircraft made a precautionary and no one was hurt.
Having looked up the Lymington incident the AAIB report indicated;
“The technical examination eliminated mechanical or structural failure as a cause of the accident but concluded that a partial engine failure may have contributed to it. Post mortem results raised the possibility that the pilot may have been medically incapacitated prior to the accident itself.”
Given that in your fathers case there was a radio call indicating smoke in the cockpit it is unlikely that the incidents were caused by the same issue.
Rod1
Condolences for your loss.
“MCR-01 crashed under almost identical circumstances just 4 years ago according to AAIB in Lymington.”
I am not aware of another similar accident to your fathers. The only similar incident of smoke in the cockpit (of an MCR01) that I could find was a French aircraft which had an electrical fire. The aircraft made a precautionary and no one was hurt.
Having looked up the Lymington incident the AAIB report indicated;
“The technical examination eliminated mechanical or structural failure as a cause of the accident but concluded that a partial engine failure may have contributed to it. Post mortem results raised the possibility that the pilot may have been medically incapacitated prior to the accident itself.”
Given that in your fathers case there was a radio call indicating smoke in the cockpit it is unlikely that the incidents were caused by the same issue.
Rod1
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Yes - but it also said that there was a very short time from a normal radio call and the crash leaving the pilot with little chance to report a may-day in the previous case. I thought from the report that they intimated engine problems and a stall/spin in a similar way? I must admit I have only skim-read it at the moment as it was a bit too much to take in completely.
I guess I need to wait for the official AAIB report but I am very keen to understand how something could go so wrong so quickly - presumeably with the engine or the wiring that puts you into a spin situation. My Dad had told me just the other day how twitchy those type of planes are how you just can't recover them from spins hence the encouraged use of parachute recovery systems on most of these LSA type planes.
Are there historic problems with these Rotax engines that lead to cockpit fires?
One thing that does make me smile in all this is that they were both excited to, and managed to, fly straight across stansted airport which is unheard of but clearly only possible when all commercial airspace is shut for the ash!
I guess I need to wait for the official AAIB report but I am very keen to understand how something could go so wrong so quickly - presumeably with the engine or the wiring that puts you into a spin situation. My Dad had told me just the other day how twitchy those type of planes are how you just can't recover them from spins hence the encouraged use of parachute recovery systems on most of these LSA type planes.
Are there historic problems with these Rotax engines that lead to cockpit fires?
One thing that does make me smile in all this is that they were both excited to, and managed to, fly straight across stansted airport which is unheard of but clearly only possible when all commercial airspace is shut for the ash!
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twheeler
I suggest you stop posting and use your time to actually read the AAIB report on the earlier UK MCR01 accident.
Incidentally the MCR01 series aircraft are not "LSA types".
The MCR01 recovers reliably and instantly from an incipient spin. I would not descibe the handling as "twitchy"; the handling is delightful.
I suggest you stop posting and use your time to actually read the AAIB report on the earlier UK MCR01 accident.
Incidentally the MCR01 series aircraft are not "LSA types".
The MCR01 recovers reliably and instantly from an incipient spin. I would not descibe the handling as "twitchy"; the handling is delightful.
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MCR01
May I suggest YOU read the thread again. Someone has just lost their father in an air accident and is trying to come to terms with that. Read again your response and ask youself if it is appropriate given the circumstances.
!
May I suggest YOU read the thread again. Someone has just lost their father in an air accident and is trying to come to terms with that. Read again your response and ask youself if it is appropriate given the circumstances.
!
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I'm with you on this Subsonicsubic.
MCR01 get off your high horse and understand that people have sadly died. A guy on here is trying to come to terms with it and the last thing he or even us need to read is snotty posts from someone trying to extol the the properties of an aircraft type that crashed.
Condolences to twheeler, I hope it's not you that has a wedding coming up soon.
In support of twheelers comment about MCR 01 (LSA)
The MCR 01 Sportster ULC(LSA) Ultralight is a side by side two-seater airplane with incredible performance and capability. Fast and agile, the VLA was specially designed to reach top speed while providing the most enjoyable experience to pilots... taken directly from a pdf file which can be seen at http://online.simmarket.com/afsdesig...CR_English.pdf
Also mentioned here at AFS Design - MCR-01 Ultralight - FlightSim Pilot Shop
MCR01 get off your high horse and understand that people have sadly died. A guy on here is trying to come to terms with it and the last thing he or even us need to read is snotty posts from someone trying to extol the the properties of an aircraft type that crashed.
Condolences to twheeler, I hope it's not you that has a wedding coming up soon.
In support of twheelers comment about MCR 01 (LSA)
The MCR 01 Sportster ULC(LSA) Ultralight is a side by side two-seater airplane with incredible performance and capability. Fast and agile, the VLA was specially designed to reach top speed while providing the most enjoyable experience to pilots... taken directly from a pdf file which can be seen at http://online.simmarket.com/afsdesig...CR_English.pdf
Also mentioned here at AFS Design - MCR-01 Ultralight - FlightSim Pilot Shop
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MCR01 Your post is very harsh. twheeler is probably not qualified as a pilot but is trying to make sense of his fathers death. He is struggling to do this and is making unsurprising technical errors, but his attempt is understandable and should treated with respect.
Rod1
Rod1
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Thank you Gryonut. Yes, it is me with the wedding but curious how you know that!
I can only go by my Dads comments on previous flights which he is perfectly entitled too as are you Mr MCR01 but please don't tell me he was wrong!! I too am a pilot (although only PPL) as was my Dad and he commented about the plane being a very twitchy plane to fly and to quote him "not a plane for a novice" when comparing to traditional PA-28 / 150's. That's not detracting from the brilliance of the plane or how much amazing fun they had in it. He also used words such as incredible to describe it and it was something I would have loved the opportunity to go for a flight in. We were in the process of looking at the new Piper Sport Cruiser which is partly why he went to Duxford that day as one was supposed to be on display.
I was also very much under the impression that these aircraft simply don't do spins hence the optional parachutes but whatever! Nothing changes the outcome on this one does it!!
I am still very curious as to the circumsances that put a plane into a (from witness opinion only) 3 rotation spin and then steep nose dive. Knowing from experience the recovery from spins is nose down, build speed, wings level, pull up which kind of follows through here with just a lack of time for the important final part! But how they get into a spin I can only imagine comes from a potential base to final turn on entry to the field which goes wrong. If the reported fault lies with the engine / electrics and not with control surfaces I struggle to see how anything failing on this would induce the spin? That said, please do not get me wrong and think I am in anyway implying pilot error. I have the utmost respect for him and am 100% confident that he was a precise and incredibly able man (leading surgeon!) who did everything in his power to get that plane down safely. It is just in my lack of technical understanding that I'm curious to know if, for example, the engine shutdown mid turn resulting in a distinct lack of power if that sort of thing could induce spin?
Appreciate your comments.
Tom
I can only go by my Dads comments on previous flights which he is perfectly entitled too as are you Mr MCR01 but please don't tell me he was wrong!! I too am a pilot (although only PPL) as was my Dad and he commented about the plane being a very twitchy plane to fly and to quote him "not a plane for a novice" when comparing to traditional PA-28 / 150's. That's not detracting from the brilliance of the plane or how much amazing fun they had in it. He also used words such as incredible to describe it and it was something I would have loved the opportunity to go for a flight in. We were in the process of looking at the new Piper Sport Cruiser which is partly why he went to Duxford that day as one was supposed to be on display.
I was also very much under the impression that these aircraft simply don't do spins hence the optional parachutes but whatever! Nothing changes the outcome on this one does it!!
I am still very curious as to the circumsances that put a plane into a (from witness opinion only) 3 rotation spin and then steep nose dive. Knowing from experience the recovery from spins is nose down, build speed, wings level, pull up which kind of follows through here with just a lack of time for the important final part! But how they get into a spin I can only imagine comes from a potential base to final turn on entry to the field which goes wrong. If the reported fault lies with the engine / electrics and not with control surfaces I struggle to see how anything failing on this would induce the spin? That said, please do not get me wrong and think I am in anyway implying pilot error. I have the utmost respect for him and am 100% confident that he was a precise and incredibly able man (leading surgeon!) who did everything in his power to get that plane down safely. It is just in my lack of technical understanding that I'm curious to know if, for example, the engine shutdown mid turn resulting in a distinct lack of power if that sort of thing could induce spin?
Appreciate your comments.
Tom
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Rod1,
Would you mind letting me know (privately I guess) your connection to this incident as you seem to have a fair bit of inside info? Are you a friend of "Andy & Peter"??
Tom
Would you mind letting me know (privately I guess) your connection to this incident as you seem to have a fair bit of inside info? Are you a friend of "Andy & Peter"??
Tom
