Light aircraft crash in Andover (merged)
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"Is it mandatory (from a certification point of view) to have a small opening panel incorporated into a single piece clear canopy?"
No, not in a permit aircraft anyway.
Rod1
No, not in a permit aircraft anyway.
Rod1
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I don't know any more than anybody has posted anywhere, but from the stuff I read yesterday it sounded like there was a major fire which either spread to the cockpit, incapacitating the pilot(s), or the smoke from it filled the cockpit and the ventilation system (if there was one) was not capable of being shut off so as to stop the smoke entering.
Either way, a dire situation and the sooner the details come out the better.
The AAIB report is going to take a year and most of them don't contain much useful information beyond "official" speculation.
Either way, a dire situation and the sooner the details come out the better.
The AAIB report is going to take a year and most of them don't contain much useful information beyond "official" speculation.
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From the several images I have seen of the type of aircraft involved, some don't appear to have any ventilation panels set into the single piece canopies.
However, how such panels, when open, would in practice assist in "evacuating" smoke/gas from the cockpit is open to debate. The pressure differential may act to "draw" more smoke/gas from the engine area at a rate faster than that which is being expelled?
Also raises a question of on board fire extinguishers. . . .and so on . . . .
However, how such panels, when open, would in practice assist in "evacuating" smoke/gas from the cockpit is open to debate. The pressure differential may act to "draw" more smoke/gas from the engine area at a rate faster than that which is being expelled?
Also raises a question of on board fire extinguishers. . . .and so on . . . .
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I don't know if somebody "around here" knows something they aren't saying 
but I don't think fires originating inside the cockpit are at all common.
Maybe a laptop or some other appliance might catch fire...
A much more likely issue is a fire forward of the firewall, fuelled by a fuel leak. This is why the firewall should be made of steel, fuel hoses should be fire sleeved and properly secured so they cannot touch hot items, the exhaust system should be leak-free, etc. And the cockpit heater controls should have a clear all-shutoff position which blocks all gas routes through the firewall.
And obviously electrical wiring needs to be done and secured properly, and done using high-temp insulated cable.
but I don't think fires originating inside the cockpit are at all common. Maybe a laptop or some other appliance might catch fire...
A much more likely issue is a fire forward of the firewall, fuelled by a fuel leak. This is why the firewall should be made of steel, fuel hoses should be fire sleeved and properly secured so they cannot touch hot items, the exhaust system should be leak-free, etc. And the cockpit heater controls should have a clear all-shutoff position which blocks all gas routes through the firewall.
And obviously electrical wiring needs to be done and secured properly, and done using high-temp insulated cable.
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“I don't know if somebody "around here" knows something they aren't saying “
I could not possibly say...
The aircraft type concerned does not normally have a “DV” panel, but it does have ventilation via ducts down the side of the fuz. It is possible to shut them off.
I do not think we know what order the key events happened in so what caused the smoke in the cockpit is impossible to know for now. (ie which side of the f/w it all started). The firewall in this case was carbon with metal bonded to it on the engine side.
Rod1
I could not possibly say...
The aircraft type concerned does not normally have a “DV” panel, but it does have ventilation via ducts down the side of the fuz. It is possible to shut them off.
I do not think we know what order the key events happened in so what caused the smoke in the cockpit is impossible to know for now. (ie which side of the f/w it all started). The firewall in this case was carbon with metal bonded to it on the engine side.
Rod1
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The firewall in this case was carbon with metal bonded to it on the engine side.
I could not possibly say...
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uuuuhhhhhhhhhh IO540
I'm glad we're back on topic here discussing whatever we can learn from this accident.
What type of craft was involved? Does this type have a history of fires?
Engine type?
I'm glad we're back on topic here discussing whatever we can learn from this accident.
What type of craft was involved? Does this type have a history of fires?
Engine type?
I understand it has a history of tailplanes ('tis a T tail?) coming off in flight.
I don't know why the type secrecy, the pilot and his companion have both been named in the press and G-INFO only links one microlight to either of them. 2 + 2 = 4.
Rans6....
I don't know why the type secrecy, the pilot and his companion have both been named in the press and G-INFO only links one microlight to either of them. 2 + 2 = 4.
Rans6....
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“I understand it has a history of tailplanes ('tis a T tail?) coming off in flight.”
If one incident in the entire fleet is “history”…
I was asked not to make the type public, but you can work it out.
Rod1
If one incident in the entire fleet is “history”…
I was asked not to make the type public, but you can work it out.
Rod1
I simply cannot understand the need for all this secrecy. Who exactly asked you to keep quiet about which sort of aircraft was involved?
A very strange reaction indeed.
A very strange reaction indeed.
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The crash A/C was G-TOOT a Dyn'Aero MCR01 VLA version; 100hp Rotax engined. This type does not have a history of tailplane failure; there are hundreds of MCR01 flying on the continent with no known tailplane failures.
A single UK registered microlight version of the MCR01 did loose a tailplane; this particular A/C had a chequered history; PM me if you need more details.
A single UK registered microlight version of the MCR01 did loose a tailplane; this particular A/C had a chequered history; PM me if you need more details.
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“there are hundreds of MCR01 flying on the continent with no known tailplane failures. “
Around 575 ish flying world wide with a very good safety record.
The one that did fail had been crashed and had non standard repair brackets fitted to the tail.
Non of which has any relevance to this tragic accident.
Rod1
Around 575 ish flying world wide with a very good safety record.
The one that did fail had been crashed and had non standard repair brackets fitted to the tail.
Non of which has any relevance to this tragic accident.
Rod1
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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I have had three fires in the air and all were cockpit fires (one ADF, one electric trim, one main bus wiring.) All on different types (HS125, Chieftain, Aztec respectively.)
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From what I now know when preflighting this engine type I will be extremely thorough.
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I am sure the AAIB will be thorough and hopefully prompt on this tragedy.
Have seen a couple of aircraft suffer engine fires (carb area) on the ground at start up and both extinguished promptly with an extinguisher - one a Cessna 182 and one a Rotax 912 homebuilt.
Somewhat worried by reference in a banbi buyers guide to the possibility of leaking fuel tank seams so I am sure the relevant people know about this.
Sad end to fellow fliers.
Have seen a couple of aircraft suffer engine fires (carb area) on the ground at start up and both extinguished promptly with an extinguisher - one a Cessna 182 and one a Rotax 912 homebuilt.
Somewhat worried by reference in a banbi buyers guide to the possibility of leaking fuel tank seams so I am sure the relevant people know about this.
Sad end to fellow fliers.
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MichaelJP,
I had no inside information on this accident but when a light aircraft comes down like that
I am always keen to know the circumstances as even the gossip can teach something.
With the Rotax I have always been nervous about exhaust and fuel fittings when I watch how they shake so much on start-up and shutdown.
Recently on inspection the exhaust on my Champ had an ugly crack in the exhaust and it was only spotted after another owner casually mentioned one on his Cub.
I suppose we just have to live and learn, and try to postpone the appointment with the Grim Reaper as long as possible.
I had no inside information on this accident but when a light aircraft comes down like that
I am always keen to know the circumstances as even the gossip can teach something.
With the Rotax I have always been nervous about exhaust and fuel fittings when I watch how they shake so much on start-up and shutdown.
Recently on inspection the exhaust on my Champ had an ugly crack in the exhaust and it was only spotted after another owner casually mentioned one on his Cub.
I suppose we just have to live and learn, and try to postpone the appointment with the Grim Reaper as long as possible.
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7AC
If you have a slipper clutch on your 912ULS then maybe Conrad Beale can help.
ConAir Soft Start Module SSM
My SkyArrow [Rotax 912UL] had a Beale family device fitted to augment carb heat and it was truly amazing. Carb icing just never happened again. Good firm to deal with.
No commercial connections, just a happy customer.
If you have a slipper clutch on your 912ULS then maybe Conrad Beale can help.
ConAir Soft Start Module SSM
My SkyArrow [Rotax 912UL] had a Beale family device fitted to augment carb heat and it was truly amazing. Carb icing just never happened again. Good firm to deal with.
No commercial connections, just a happy customer.
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With the Rotax I have always been nervous about exhaust and fuel fittings when I watch how they shake so much on start-up and shutdown.