FAA vs CAA PPL
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FAA vs CAA PPL
Hi all, I searched but couldn't really see anything along these lines, but apologies if it has been covered before.
Anyway, I spend around half the year in the UK, and half elsewhere, often in the US/Caribbean. I am planning on (finally!) studying my PPL later this year or early next year and would like to know the differences (if any) between a US and a UK licence. Would I be able to fly on both sides of the pond with either? which one is going to cause fewer headaches when renting aircraft in various parts of the world? and is there any real point in having both?
Also, when it comes to re-validating or other ratings/type approvals will it mean a return to the issuing country?
Any help appreciated.
Liam
Anyway, I spend around half the year in the UK, and half elsewhere, often in the US/Caribbean. I am planning on (finally!) studying my PPL later this year or early next year and would like to know the differences (if any) between a US and a UK licence. Would I be able to fly on both sides of the pond with either? which one is going to cause fewer headaches when renting aircraft in various parts of the world? and is there any real point in having both?
Also, when it comes to re-validating or other ratings/type approvals will it mean a return to the issuing country?
Any help appreciated.
Liam
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Go for the FAA - it's much more practical in your situation.
Once you have it, it will be valid for life.
If you let your BFR expire you just have to do another to get recurrent - no paperwork, no retests, no fees.
You can find FAA CFIs to do your BFR all over the world. Likewise FAA AMEs.
The UK implicity validates FAA PPLs to fly over here - no paperwork, no fees.
The other way round is not nearly so practical or cheap.
Once you have it, it will be valid for life.
If you let your BFR expire you just have to do another to get recurrent - no paperwork, no retests, no fees.
You can find FAA CFIs to do your BFR all over the world. Likewise FAA AMEs.
The UK implicity validates FAA PPLs to fly over here - no paperwork, no fees.
The other way round is not nearly so practical or cheap.
If you let your BFR expire you just have to do another to get recurrent - no fees.
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Flyingfemme probably means no fees to the FAA or CAA - which is correct.
Other than that, another vote for the FAA PPL. Much better in many ways (unless you only fly in JAA land)
Other than that, another vote for the FAA PPL. Much better in many ways (unless you only fly in JAA land)
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You can do a flight test with an FAA inspector for free in the USA....
Most people don't though (they do it with a DPE instead) as I guess they are booked up a long time in advance, and I expect you have to fly perfectly to pass. If you ever get told by the FAA you have to redo a test with an inspector (for example if you busted airspace etc...) then they don't charge.
Great system the FAA
Most people don't though (they do it with a DPE instead) as I guess they are booked up a long time in advance, and I expect you have to fly perfectly to pass. If you ever get told by the FAA you have to redo a test with an inspector (for example if you busted airspace etc...) then they don't charge.
Great system the FAA
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There are many FAA CFI instructors over here in the UK and Europe.
Any of them can do a BFR.
For an IPC you need a CFII but nearly all CFIs are actually CFIIs.
The issue with paying the instructor is a separate one. In UK airspace, if he is paid for the flight, he should have a UK/JAA CPL.
In practice this is not an issue since many pilots (myself included) have friends who are FAA instructors and who do it genuinely for free. I know a whole bunch of A&P/IAs, ATPs, CFIIs, you name it - all working in aviation somewhere. All of them can do anything on a purely freelance basis. It's a great system.
There are some dual (FAA & JAA) rated instructors but not many. In the past, I found them unavailable when I needed them as they were very busy.
Any of them can do a BFR.
For an IPC you need a CFII but nearly all CFIs are actually CFIIs.
The issue with paying the instructor is a separate one. In UK airspace, if he is paid for the flight, he should have a UK/JAA CPL.
In practice this is not an issue since many pilots (myself included) have friends who are FAA instructors and who do it genuinely for free. I know a whole bunch of A&P/IAs, ATPs, CFIIs, you name it - all working in aviation somewhere. All of them can do anything on a purely freelance basis. It's a great system.
There are some dual (FAA & JAA) rated instructors but not many. In the past, I found them unavailable when I needed them as they were very busy.
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Thanks for the responses so far, seems the FAA route is the way to go. another little question though...
Suppose I qualified with an FAA PPL, and wanted (as I plan to) add an IMC or night rating, would that again have to be done in the states, or with an FAA CFI in the UK or wherever? or even, would I be able to study a CAA IMC/night rating?
Finally, how much hassle is involved in the M1 student visa application process? I have a C1/D which required a letter of employment, will I need a course confirmation letter from a US school first, or do I apply for the visa and then find a school?
Apologies if these are daft questions.
Cheers,
Liam
Suppose I qualified with an FAA PPL, and wanted (as I plan to) add an IMC or night rating, would that again have to be done in the states, or with an FAA CFI in the UK or wherever? or even, would I be able to study a CAA IMC/night rating?
Finally, how much hassle is involved in the M1 student visa application process? I have a C1/D which required a letter of employment, will I need a course confirmation letter from a US school first, or do I apply for the visa and then find a school?
Apologies if these are daft questions.
Cheers,
Liam
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You won't be able to do an IMC rating as you don't hold a UK licence to attach the rating to. You could however do the full FAA IR which cost wise would not cost you much more than the IMC and is far more useful.
FAA PPL includes night (you do 3 hrs training at night) so by that token you can actually fly at night straight away. There are a few odd ball things though - the UK requires all night flight to be in accordance with IFR. Now an FAA PPL cannot fly IAW IFR without an IR....People have different interpretations of these rules and I'm sure someone will be along in a bit to expand on this.
FAA PPL includes night (you do 3 hrs training at night) so by that token you can actually fly at night straight away. There are a few odd ball things though - the UK requires all night flight to be in accordance with IFR. Now an FAA PPL cannot fly IAW IFR without an IR....People have different interpretations of these rules and I'm sure someone will be along in a bit to expand on this.
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The bit about whether an FAA PPL (whose license includes night privileges automatically unless done in I think Alaska) can fly night in UK airspace (which is "IFR") has never been clarified.
It remains one of aviation's grey areas / sleeping dogs
My guess is that he cannot.
It remains one of aviation's grey areas / sleeping dogs
My guess is that he cannot.
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My guess is that he cannot.
Pik 'n' Mix ratings
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An FAA PPL/IR is done and dusted, day or night, in the UK.
In an N-reg, perfect.
In a G-reg, he still can't go IFR in CAS (ref: ANO old article 26).
So, curiously, in a G-reg he can do more with a UK PPL and the IMCR, because then he can go IFR in Class D also.
In an N-reg, perfect.
In a G-reg, he still can't go IFR in CAS (ref: ANO old article 26).
So, curiously, in a G-reg he can do more with a UK PPL and the IMCR, because then he can go IFR in Class D also.
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Finally, how much hassle is involved in the M1 student visa application process? I have a C1/D which required a letter of employment, will I need a course confirmation letter from a US school first, or do I apply for the visa and then find a school?
You enroll with that school, and they will "sponsor" your visa. Which essentially means that you get an official piece of paper from them saying you're enrolled. With that piece of paper and some further paperwork (plus a photo conforming to US standards, which are different from EU passport photos) you make an appointment with the US embassy or consulate, who will then issue you an M-1 visa. Note that getting the appointment may take a long time, and the appointment itself is a three-hour affair too (in my case - wish I had brought a book).
However, in your particular case, since you're the holder of a C1/D visa, there might be a chance you don't require an M-1 visa. After all, an M-1 visa is required if your primary purpose for the visit is (flight) training/education. But if you go to the US regularly for the main purpose of whatever you got the C1/D visa for, and you do a few hours of flight training on the side, flight training is not your main purpose and your C1/D visa may suffice, subject to any specific limitations in the C1/D visa.
BUT this is not the default situation for a lot of flight students and you might need a little supporting paperwork (or the verbatim legislation) from the USCIS saying that this is indeed allright. Don't trust the opinion of just some anonymous blokes on an internet forum on this. Because if you (we) do get it wrong, you might not just end up in conflict with USCIS but also with the TSA.
Speaking of which, if you do flight training in the US for an "initial airmans certificate" you also need TSA clearance since you're not a US citizen. This is regardless of the exact visa you're going to need.
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C1/D is a crew member visa (flight crew / cruise ship crew etc..) and basically only enables one to embark or disembark in the US if memory serves me right.
But anyway, the reason Pt 141 schools are visa approved is because training under Pt 141 is a formal course structure which can take someone from zero to ATP. When training under 141 many of the requirements (like cross country / PIC time etc...) are dropped but are replaced by stage checks which the student is required to pass before continuing on to the next stage.
Pt 61 is informal tuition. Now really the M1 visa doesn't cover Pt 61 because....it is not nescessary....as it could well be a vocational course of under 18 hrs per week. And hence a 61 school can't be visa approved.
But the general consensus on Pprune is that you need an M1 (not that I have ever had one
) and so what the pt 61 schools do is go to their mate who runs a pt 141 school, and apply for the visa that way. They all do it by the way and I don't think you'll ever find a forigner training under pt 141...It has several distinct disadvantages for someone who say only wants a PPL or IR. Fine if you want to go zero to ATP.
But anyway, the reason Pt 141 schools are visa approved is because training under Pt 141 is a formal course structure which can take someone from zero to ATP. When training under 141 many of the requirements (like cross country / PIC time etc...) are dropped but are replaced by stage checks which the student is required to pass before continuing on to the next stage.
Pt 61 is informal tuition. Now really the M1 visa doesn't cover Pt 61 because....it is not nescessary....as it could well be a vocational course of under 18 hrs per week. And hence a 61 school can't be visa approved.
But the general consensus on Pprune is that you need an M1 (not that I have ever had one
) and so what the pt 61 schools do is go to their mate who runs a pt 141 school, and apply for the visa that way. They all do it by the way and I don't think you'll ever find a forigner training under pt 141...It has several distinct disadvantages for someone who say only wants a PPL or IR. Fine if you want to go zero to ATP.
