Student dual hours replace solo hours?

[Whirlygig]

If you are flying solo as part of your PPL training, then you should be briefed and de-briefed, however brief the briefs are.

A school is entitled to charge what they like; there is no CAA requirement to charge "dual" rate for PPL solo hours. However, as you are flying on your instructor's licence, it is not unreasonable that you pay for that time.

If you are not happy with the service you are receiving from the school, then you need to take that up with them but I would suggest that any schools not charging dual rates for solo flights are in the minority in the UK.

Cheers

Whirls

[Whopity]

Oh and no extras such as debrief or brief etcetera.

It is normal for student solo flights away from the airfield to complete a Solo Certificate which states that the student has been briefed on what he can and cannot do. This should be signed by both the student and instructor and placed in the training record.

I believe that in the US this is signed in the log book. JAR-FCL 1.080 actually requires the student to carry his log book on a solo flights as evidence of the required authorisation however there is no legal requirement in the UK to place such an authorisation in the log book.

[IO540]

If you are flying solo as part of your PPL training, then you should be briefed and de-briefed

I know two instructors who got their (female) students pregnant, so this does seem current practice.

And a 3rd one whose young acquisition got ~ 30 hrs of free flight time Mind you, he had to vanish after that (and a few other things ).

[englishal]

Another reason to go to the USA. I never paid "dual" rates for flying "solo". I don't subscribe to his feeling sorry for FI's who drive 200 miles per day for a pittance salary, that is their choice and most of them have ambitions to be earning £150k per year flying heavy metal - I went to University myself.

There are 3 sorts of FI - The really good career instructors, who I'd happily pay £50 per flying hour. Then you get the hour builders who want out ASAP and want to operate the gear and flaps of a Boeing. Then there are those that just love to fly, such as the CRI's, Aero's instructors, and airline pilots. For them money is not the driving factor.I used to fly with a BA captain, ex-harrier Pilot, who charged £50 per hour or £200 for a day if it was more than 4 hrs. Great for those longer trips - cross channel etc.....I don't mind hiring a FI for £200 per day if they can really teach me something new. He did it because he loved small planes and I learned a lot from him. I have also flown with an Army chap who is CRI, and does it for the flying, which I am very grateful for. He doesn't charge anything and wouldn't even accept expenses which I though was very generous. Hopefully we'll be using him more in the coming year.

But I suppose it would be better to negotiate a "PPL Package". An all inclusive price for 45hrs and meeting all the PPL requirements, with extra training if reqired paid additionally.

[Fingermouse]

Originally Posted by whirlygig

If you are flying solo as part of your PPL training, then you should be briefed and de-briefed, however brief the briefs are.

A school is entitled to charge what they like; there is no CAA requirement to charge "dual" rate for PPL solo hours. However, as you are flying on your instructor's licence, it is not unreasonable that you pay for that time.

If you are not happy with the service you are receiving from the school, then you need to take that up with them but I would suggest that any schools not charging dual rates for solo flights are in the minority in the UK.

Cheers

Whirls

This sounds about right.
I must say I am rather disappointed that the school said ''it is a requirement passed from the CAA'' that every flight school must charge dual for students. If this were made clear from the get-go, and it were actually a CAA requirement -then this would be just fine in my eyes, but as the situation now stands I am left with the impression that this is just another dishonest aviation school. Personally I do not believe it is unreasonable to expect more than that in terms of service.

Ah well, life goes on.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I am left with the impression that this is just another dishonest aviation school

So ditch them and find another one, your choice.

Of course if you whine about them all on here you might eventually run out of choices ...

[BEagle]

Of course every UK PPL school aims to rip off its students, doesn't it...

Charging an 'average' rate isn't that bad an idea - at least you won't get problems trying to fly all your solo hours due to instructors being reluctant to send you off and losing income as a result...

As certainly happens in some US PPL farms. Their alleged FIs only get paid for dual time, so is there any incentive for them to release you solo?

So dry your eyes and man up. All PPL schools are struggling to remain solvent, to retain FIs and to offer competitive rates; your school is undoubtedly doing the best it can in the current financial climate.

[zerotohero]

No one seems to have asked the obvious question "Is the FI getting the money?"

all well and good banging on about him driving from X to Y to monitor you from the ground and de-breif you, if thats what he does fine, however if he has just singed you off to do touch and go's at your leisure with a max 10kt x-wind and is not getting paid at all for it its a rip off.

it also i am guessing would stop you paying for more practice because its costing too much to not have a guy sat next to you and you might as well just crack on and try to finish fast rather than enjoy learning.

[Rickford]

I'm not aware of any CAA regulation on this but if you are one of my students you WILL pay duel rate because it is MY license you are flying on and should you enter controlled airspace or crash it won't be you that the CAA and your grieving relatives will pursue.

We do however offer solo rates to students who have passed their skills & exams and are awaiting their licences. However, they still have to fly solo

[chrisbl]

Another reason to go to the USA. I never paid "dual" rates for flying "solo".

Whilst true the normal case in the US is to be charged for briefings and debriefings and ground instruction as well as flight instruction.

Therefore witha two hour training slot you might pick up an instructor charge for two hours and an aircraft charge for one hour.

If you fly solo, maybe just the brief and debrief.

The only real cost savings in the US is the aircraft cost and airfield fees, instruction is probably more expensive.

Last week I rented a 2006 172 SP with G1000 for $130 an hour. Instruction was $49 an hour.

In October I rented an old 172 for $85 per hour wet and $45 for the instructor and that covered both brief/debrief and flying time too.

[BackPacker]

Whilst true the normal case in the US is to be charged for briefings and debriefings and ground instruction as well as flight instruction.

Therefore witha two hour training slot you might pick up an instructor charge for two hours and an aircraft charge for one hour.

Actually when I was at OFT both the instructors and the planes were charged, separately, based on Hobbs time.

So if you had the plane and the instructor for a two-hour block, and you flew 1.1 hour in that block, then you would pay 1.1 times the hourly plane rental fee, and 1.1 times the hourly instruction fee. If you flew solo, you just paid the hourly plane rental fee.

Of course I don't know what the payment scheme to the instructor was, but I think this charging scheme is probably there because it neatly ties in with the website advertisements for the 45-hour PPL package (including 25-hour instruction).

[TractorBoy]

Some schools actually have 3 rates - Dual, Solo and PPL. Stapleford is an example (I learnt there). You're charged Dual when with an instructor, Solo when you're not, and PPL once you've passed.

The current rate for a C152 is

Dual : £148.00
Solo : £127.00
PPL : £ 98.00
(plus the obligatory fuel surcharge which places don't advertise )

Not advertising the place - just using them as an example

[Ryan5252]

I must say I am rather disappointed that the school said ''it is a requirement passed from the CAA''

Are you sure that is exactly what was said? What I mean to ask is, is it possible that when querying why you were paying dual rates for a solo flight the club explained to you the obligations which lay on the instructor in line with CAA regualations? Im not too sure that a flight school operating in todays day and age would have to come up with random 'lies' to justify their costs. My own club is fighting off price increases on all fronts and struggling not to pass this on to the students. Perhaps, depsite paying the same hourly rate, this is why we have over 20 students and a 2 month waiting list for new recruits. I am satisifed that when I book in I am getting dedicated breifs, fantastic groundscool and am making excellent progress with my flying.


If you are not happy with the level of service you have recieved, or feel 'cheated' by your club/school do something about it and move on. However, Id say more likely than not you have misinterepated the explanation provided, in which case I would counsel you stop crying and get on with it.