Plane crash near Oxford Airport
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Oddly the Oxford departures are no longer in the RAF FLIP charts I use (which are basically AERAD) or the AIP but from memory (I did my IMC there in 2003) the CHALO departure on either runway involves a turn through > 90 degrees degrees to the west to intercept an outbound course from the OX to CHALO, which was defined as the intercept of that outbound course and a radial off HON. So, regardless of which runway was in use, a position over Bladon is entirely plausible as part of an IFR departure.
I'm happy to be corrected if anyone has more recent knowledge of the Oxford IFR procedures.
Tim
I'm happy to be corrected if anyone has more recent knowledge of the Oxford IFR procedures.
Tim
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Just want to take the opportunity to say that I knew Richard Leonard as a fellow member of a flying club. Flew with him on a couple of occasions and have never met a nicer guy. My deepest condolences go to his wife and two children. He will be missed. RIP Richard
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History of this aircraft - two fatal N reg accidents in the UK
My sources indicate that this aircraft was exported from the US via Florida last year, and only gained its CoA on 8th January 2010.
This is the second UK based N reg aircraft to have been involved in a fatal accident within the past twelve months. There are potential links.
I trust in due course that the AAIB and the families' lawyers will be looking very closely at the issue of the condition of the aircraft at the time it was sold. However I fear the forensic evidence may produce less than perfect results.
This is the second UK based N reg aircraft to have been involved in a fatal accident within the past twelve months. There are potential links.
I trust in due course that the AAIB and the families' lawyers will be looking very closely at the issue of the condition of the aircraft at the time it was sold. However I fear the forensic evidence may produce less than perfect results.
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I never liked postings in bold, it suggests over-dominant posters and/or ulterior motives.
Please tell me why importing planes from the USA would increase the risk of fatal accidents? Most planes we fly are built there and the FAA controls considerably more planes and maintenance facilities than the CAA....
Please tell me why importing planes from the USA would increase the risk of fatal accidents? Most planes we fly are built there and the FAA controls considerably more planes and maintenance facilities than the CAA....
Hovering AND talking
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I never liked postings in bold, it suggests over-dominant posters and/or ulterior motives.
or someone who has copy/pasted their post from word processing software with different formatting.Making comments about the way someone has typed only weakens your own argument.
Cheers
Whirls
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N-reg is nothing to do with this.
N-reg planes are usually in a better condition and are better maintained than G-reg, because most are owned by the pilot. The worst maintained wreckage I have ever seen is, on the whole, the UK flight training fleet!! I walked out of a flying school due to bare wires hanging out under the cowling; the instructor told me "they only go to a landing light - don't switch it on and you will be OK". That school held a CAA AOC for charter flights... go figure.
And if you want to fly totally illegally, with zero maintenance / forged papers, the way to do it is on a G-reg because it won't draw any attention - even if you fly to France where N-regs get "looked at" periodically.
I've been to airports where practically everything parked there was wreckage, much of it with grass growing around the wheels, and the only stuff that was "nice" was a bunch of N-regs. No wonder the regulators don't like it and are busy grinding this axe everywhere they can - as evidenced by the Swiss Cheese post above.
N-reg planes are usually in a better condition and are better maintained than G-reg, because most are owned by the pilot. The worst maintained wreckage I have ever seen is, on the whole, the UK flight training fleet!! I walked out of a flying school due to bare wires hanging out under the cowling; the instructor told me "they only go to a landing light - don't switch it on and you will be OK". That school held a CAA AOC for charter flights... go figure.
And if you want to fly totally illegally, with zero maintenance / forged papers, the way to do it is on a G-reg because it won't draw any attention - even if you fly to France where N-regs get "looked at" periodically.
I've been to airports where practically everything parked there was wreckage, much of it with grass growing around the wheels, and the only stuff that was "nice" was a bunch of N-regs. No wonder the regulators don't like it and are busy grinding this axe everywhere they can - as evidenced by the Swiss Cheese post above.
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On what is an extremely rare occasion I agree with IO540. In my experience the N Reg aircraft are invariably very well maintained as they tend to be owner operators who tend to have significant pride in their aircraft.
I do not believe for one moment that the standard of FAA maintenance is any less than European. It is the same companies with the same engineers doing the same work!!!
* I operate an IFR aircraft on the G Reg.
I do not believe for one moment that the standard of FAA maintenance is any less than European. It is the same companies with the same engineers doing the same work!!!
* I operate an IFR aircraft on the G Reg.
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When our aeroplane goes on the N reg it will be maintained to exactly the same standard as if it were on the G reg, by the same maintenance outfit. Instead of paying CAA fees, the fee will go to an FAA IA who will inspect and sign their work off.
In fact there are several key safety benefits by putting it on the N reg.
1) The co-owner will gain an IR, something he won't do if it stays under G.
2) The money saved on converting my IR and him doing his FAA IR (over doing a JAA IR) will pay for a really decent avionics upgrade, enhancing situational awareness and hence safety
3) It is easier to install certain avionics which enhance safety, yet EASA don't have STC's for yet....not for any safety reason but for bureaucratic reasons.
So if anything, the CAA should be looking at N reg aeroplanes and asking why people want to put them on the N reg in the first place and addressing the real issues.
In fact there are several key safety benefits by putting it on the N reg.
1) The co-owner will gain an IR, something he won't do if it stays under G.
2) The money saved on converting my IR and him doing his FAA IR (over doing a JAA IR) will pay for a really decent avionics upgrade, enhancing situational awareness and hence safety
3) It is easier to install certain avionics which enhance safety, yet EASA don't have STC's for yet....not for any safety reason but for bureaucratic reasons.
So if anything, the CAA should be looking at N reg aeroplanes and asking why people want to put them on the N reg in the first place and addressing the real issues.
I never liked postings in bold, it suggests over-dominant posters and/or ulterior motives.
I wonder what Stewarts Law's interest is in this crash (if any), and whether this thread is an appropriate place to air it.
In bold type face or not.
FBW
Ah, so the vultures are circling are they? God save us from the scavengers of the legal profession (Stand fast Flying Lawyer, et al). Why does everyone find it so difficult to wait for the properly researched findings of the experts in AAIB?
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wider issues - less bold this time
Interesting observations, and perhaps a different thread is needed, but having an N on the tail makes a difference for all sorts of reasons, not necessarily related solely to air safety.
Anyhow, three good reasons not to sit back and wait for an accident report on any accident - (20 yrs experience, or 20,000 hrs suggests this)
1. The aviation insurers and their lawyers are on the case within 7 days, looking to limit the responsibility of their clients.
2. The parties to the AAIB/NTSB report, through the lawyers paid by the aviation insurers, get to put their version of events into the investigation, whilst the families are excluded (go on, read Annexe 13 of the Chicago Convention 1944).
3. So, it can take several years for a report to emerge, that has zero input from those who lost the most - by which time the evidence trail has thinned. Guess who feels let down by this process the most, and who actually deserves to be put first ?
Some cynics suggest that corporate and political interests interfere with the Accident investigation/reporting process. Why is it that the families of the KQ507 Boeing 737-800 and OneTwoGo MD-80 tragedies have been forced to wait more than two years for an accident report and coroners inquests, whilst their legal rights expire within two years? Surely some mistake you might think?
Anyhow, three good reasons not to sit back and wait for an accident report on any accident - (20 yrs experience, or 20,000 hrs suggests this)
1. The aviation insurers and their lawyers are on the case within 7 days, looking to limit the responsibility of their clients.
2. The parties to the AAIB/NTSB report, through the lawyers paid by the aviation insurers, get to put their version of events into the investigation, whilst the families are excluded (go on, read Annexe 13 of the Chicago Convention 1944).
3. So, it can take several years for a report to emerge, that has zero input from those who lost the most - by which time the evidence trail has thinned. Guess who feels let down by this process the most, and who actually deserves to be put first ?
Some cynics suggest that corporate and political interests interfere with the Accident investigation/reporting process. Why is it that the families of the KQ507 Boeing 737-800 and OneTwoGo MD-80 tragedies have been forced to wait more than two years for an accident report and coroners inquests, whilst their legal rights expire within two years? Surely some mistake you might think?
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I don't see why having an N on the tail makes any difference other than a positive one from a safety point of view.
You mention that this aeroplane only had it's CofA in Jan. This confuses me as if it was N registered and exported from Florida then surely it would still be on the same CofA as it was in the USA (i.e. non expiring FAA CofA). Unless it was exported on an Export CofA and therefore intended to be re-registered on the G reg, but apparently it was still N reg at the time of the accident.
You mention that this aeroplane only had it's CofA in Jan. This confuses me as if it was N registered and exported from Florida then surely it would still be on the same CofA as it was in the USA (i.e. non expiring FAA CofA). Unless it was exported on an Export CofA and therefore intended to be re-registered on the G reg, but apparently it was still N reg at the time of the accident.
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Looks very much like a parasite whose company has a Phd in junk science.
Perhaps you could tell us all what particular expertise a family would have in terms of input to an accident investigation?
Is the sympathany vote really relevant in ensuring that lessons are really learnt? Or is it much more relevant to compensation claims?
The company site studiously presents a pretty poor example given the 'information' present by the 'investigation' of the Air Ethopia 737 crash.
Perhaps you could tell us all what particular expertise a family would have in terms of input to an accident investigation?
Is the sympathany vote really relevant in ensuring that lessons are really learnt? Or is it much more relevant to compensation claims?
The company site studiously presents a pretty poor example given the 'information' present by the 'investigation' of the Air Ethopia 737 crash.
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‘a severe degree of coronary artery disease
which would be capable of producing a range
of cardiac symptoms including arrhythmias,
angina, collapse or sudden death.’
Great....
which would be capable of producing a range
of cardiac symptoms including arrhythmias,
angina, collapse or sudden death.’
Great....