Light aircraft down in Dundee
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: In the boot of my car!
Vince (Biggles) You are a Hero 
You brought a lot of colour and entertainment into these dull grey forums with your adventures.
I have a secret admiration for colourful people who bend the norm and challenge convention in all walks of life.
Makes our drab lives a bit more interesting.
Hope old Vince is back in the skies. Maybe his next adventure will be taking pictures of exploding volcanos above their core.
Bet he survives that too
Pace
You brought a lot of colour and entertainment into these dull grey forums with your adventures.I have a secret admiration for colourful people who bend the norm and challenge convention in all walks of life.
Makes our drab lives a bit more interesting.
Hope old Vince is back in the skies. Maybe his next adventure will be taking pictures of exploding volcanos above their core.
Bet he survives that too
Pace
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: An ATC centre this side of the moon.
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Good Lord, has he been charged with anything?
There but for the grace of God go I, but some of all that is just muppet behaviour. An endurance of nearly an hour more than the (test pilot's) book figures isn't going to be achievable now is it? And as for the IR flying in Class A airspace in a VLA on an NPPL? That's not even trying to play the game properly.
There but for the grace of God go I, but some of all that is just muppet behaviour. An endurance of nearly an hour more than the (test pilot's) book figures isn't going to be achievable now is it? And as for the IR flying in Class A airspace in a VLA on an NPPL? That's not even trying to play the game properly.
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Do I come here often?
How about the "Pilot not able to reconstruct a complete record of his flying experience" bit, when a record is a mandatory requirement.
MOGAS at 9 000'
No apparent RT license
As for his own theories on endurance, and son't start me on the airspace bust......
Vince, I have no doubt you will be on here later with a load of self justifying bull**** and some tale about how Worrals of the WAAF would have knitted some more fuel. I hope the CAA throw a lot of very heavy books at you. I hope for his sake that your instructor can demonstrate that he did train you properly as in the current climate he is likely to be answering some very stiff questions.
Do us all a big favour, realise that no thanks to you and ALL thanks to your utter stupidity and arrogance you have written off an aircraft, risked the lives of by-standers and brought general aviation in the UK into the light of some very poor publicity.
Like many on here I earn my living in the air and spend my spare time with small fun aeroplanes and the wonderful people who fly them. Please go and take up golf or bowls or something where your amazing exploit can impress others, in 30 years of holding a license I have never read such an AAIB report, you should be utterly ashamed, you are a total disgrace.
SND
MOGAS at 9 000'
No apparent RT license
As for his own theories on endurance, and son't start me on the airspace bust......
Vince, I have no doubt you will be on here later with a load of self justifying bull**** and some tale about how Worrals of the WAAF would have knitted some more fuel. I hope the CAA throw a lot of very heavy books at you. I hope for his sake that your instructor can demonstrate that he did train you properly as in the current climate he is likely to be answering some very stiff questions.
Do us all a big favour, realise that no thanks to you and ALL thanks to your utter stupidity and arrogance you have written off an aircraft, risked the lives of by-standers and brought general aviation in the UK into the light of some very poor publicity.
Like many on here I earn my living in the air and spend my spare time with small fun aeroplanes and the wonderful people who fly them. Please go and take up golf or bowls or something where your amazing exploit can impress others, in 30 years of holding a license I have never read such an AAIB report, you should be utterly ashamed, you are a total disgrace.
SND
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,160
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From: An ATC centre this side of the moon.
SND....wow that told him!!
Its incidents like this that make me wonder why the CAA allow reduced hours in gaining a NPPL as opposed to a PPL....its just as easy to bust controlled airspace and endanger your's and others life's flying LAA type aircraft as your run of the mill spamcan!!! Never really made sense to me
Its incidents like this that make me wonder why the CAA allow reduced hours in gaining a NPPL as opposed to a PPL....its just as easy to bust controlled airspace and endanger your's and others life's flying LAA type aircraft as your run of the mill spamcan!!! Never really made sense to me
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Ansião (PT)
SND....wow that told him!!
Its incidents like this that make me wonder why the CAA allow reduced hours in gaining a NPPL as opposed to a PPL
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: UK
Hmmm....interesting reading indeed. Only a week or so ago, I saw someone else run their aircraft dry of fuel too. Was at a major airport also...causing grief for several commercial aircraft, either sent to the hold or delayed on the ground.
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 549
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From: The frozen north....
I really dont think lack or standard of training is the issue here at all, more to do with Vince's "I know better / rules dont apply to me" attitude which I suspect is unlikely to change.
Vince, I can only hope that you learn something from this experience about yourself, aviation is not the sort of activity you can participate in and expect to survive for long with such an attitude, you got lucky this time, if your ever allowed to fly again the outcome might be far more serious next time.
I personally hope Vince is never let loose in the sky at the controls of anything in the future and the CAA use the oppertunity to make an example of him.
Regards
UA
Vince, I can only hope that you learn something from this experience about yourself, aviation is not the sort of activity you can participate in and expect to survive for long with such an attitude, you got lucky this time, if your ever allowed to fly again the outcome might be far more serious next time.
I personally hope Vince is never let loose in the sky at the controls of anything in the future and the CAA use the oppertunity to make an example of him.
Regards
UA
Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 2,786
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From: Toronto
It seems the pilot looked at the gauges and believed them -- after all, how can a sight tube malfunction?
But fairness requires acknowledgement he had substantial help from the manufacturer in running out of gas.
The GPS trace shows all sorts of fields just North of town. If you want to stretch your fuel, you really need to work on field selection
But fairness requires acknowledgement he had substantial help from the manufacturer in running out of gas.
The GPS trace shows all sorts of fields just North of town. If you want to stretch your fuel, you really need to work on field selection
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 549
Likes: 2
From: The frozen north....
Press have picked up on it, thankfully they are being rather kind and have made no mention of the more serious possibilities involving the EDI airspace bust.
BBC News - 'Biggles' crash pilot made fuel error
'Biggles' crash pilot had miscalculated flight fuel - Scotsman.com News
BBC News - 'Biggles' crash pilot made fuel error
'Biggles' crash pilot had miscalculated flight fuel - Scotsman.com News
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Berkshire, UK
I wonder how much more circling, while looking for a good tree to roost in, would have taken place if more fuel had been available? (diag 3 in AAIB report).
Rans6....
(diag 3 in AAIB report).Rans6....
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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From: The Peoples Alcoholic Republic of Jockistan
At the time 'Biggles' said on various posts:
And now the AAIB say:
Sorry Vince, but those professionals who told you at the time what you had done wrong, were funnily enough 100% right. You didn't listen to advice then and everything seems always to have been someone else's fault. If you still persist with that attitude today, then you have learned nothing and are a potential danger to everyone who is in the air and on the ground every time you get airborne.
If on the other hand, you have accepted the AAIB report and the failings which it has highlighted in your performance, and have taken appropriate instruction or guidance to bring yourself up to a safe standard of flying, then I wish you every success for future flights and welcome you in to the airspace as a fellow aviator who can display the necessary competence and skill which is required by us all.
I had permission to cross Edinburgh CTA under the watchful eye of Scottish Radar.
Stuff about Scottish Radar seems to be from one person listening in. Maybe a pilot? Let the Inspector decide.
re Controller - of course, but I asked permission before entering the area and was granted.
I entered at 7,000 feet and left at 10,000 ft having made two requests for level changes cos of cloud tops.
I was not light headed and flew down to 7,000 immediately north of the CTA.
Thank you for your preview of the report to AAIB. Sorry to say there are a number of inaccuracies - such as I did speak to Edinburgh and they referred me to Scottish who gave me a squalk and confirmed it before entering.
And I was transferred out to Inverness (not Edinburgh) by Scottish, but was out of range at that point.
my changes of flight level were with the permission of Scottish. How did that endanger anyone? they had me on radar and my track and levels were both cleared. I was given the instruction to notify them if I made any significant turns but I did not.
I am as keen as anyone else to discover if there were errors but your detailed note, whilst showing a lot of knowledge of the circumstances, shows just how important it is to have an independent investigation that has all the facts, not just some, before it.
At least a court would start with the facts and hear both sides. You appear willing to do neither.
Stuff about Scottish Radar seems to be from one person listening in. Maybe a pilot? Let the Inspector decide.
re Controller - of course, but I asked permission before entering the area and was granted.
I entered at 7,000 feet and left at 10,000 ft having made two requests for level changes cos of cloud tops.
I was not light headed and flew down to 7,000 immediately north of the CTA.
Thank you for your preview of the report to AAIB. Sorry to say there are a number of inaccuracies - such as I did speak to Edinburgh and they referred me to Scottish who gave me a squalk and confirmed it before entering.
And I was transferred out to Inverness (not Edinburgh) by Scottish, but was out of range at that point.
my changes of flight level were with the permission of Scottish. How did that endanger anyone? they had me on radar and my track and levels were both cleared. I was given the instruction to notify them if I made any significant turns but I did not.
I am as keen as anyone else to discover if there were errors but your detailed note, whilst showing a lot of knowledge of the circumstances, shows just how important it is to have an independent investigation that has all the facts, not just some, before it.
At least a court would start with the facts and hear both sides. You appear willing to do neither.
During this climb the aircraft entered Class A airspace at FL85 over Eskdalemuir, exiting into Class D airspace as it crossed into the Scottish TMA approximately 10 nm further north.
At 1440 hrs the pilot contacted the Scottish Area Control Centre (SACC), advising his intended route and his wish to climb to 9,000 ft to remain clear of cloud. The controller cleared the aircraft on track to Kinloss and asked the pilot to advise her before making any “big turns” because the aircraft was in the “TMA environment” and potentially in conflict with aircraft under her control bound for Edinburgh.
As the aircraft approached the lateral limits of the Edinburgh Control Area (CTA) from the south, the pilot requested and was cleared to make a further climb to 10,000 ft in order to remain clear of cloud. Five minutes later the pilot reported ‘cloud ahead the base looks quite high could I have permission to descend 5,000 ft same heading ’. Initially, SACC cleared the aircraft to FL70, due to traffic in the CTA, and instructed the pilot to contact Edinburgh Radar. The pilot read back the correct frequency but had not made contact with Edinburgh ATC before the aircraft entered the CTA. It exited the CTA northbound at an altitude of approximately 4,500 ft and continued to descend to 2,000 ft.
The pilot held a National Private Pilot’s Licence which does not permit flight under instrument flight rules and therefore does not permit flight in Class A airspace. There is no record of the pilot holding a valid flight radio telephony operator’s licence at the time of the flight.
Flight in Class D airspace requires a clearance either via radio telephony or by prior arrangement. The commander of an aircraft flying in an aerodrome traffic zone is required to obtain permission to do so from the associated ATC unit and to maintain a continuous watch for instructions (though not necessarily by radio). The Edinburgh ATC unit reported entry of the aircraft into the CTA without clearance as an infringement.
Infringement of controlled airspace and flight within the Edinburgh ATZ without permission did not directly affect the outcome.
At 1440 hrs the pilot contacted the Scottish Area Control Centre (SACC), advising his intended route and his wish to climb to 9,000 ft to remain clear of cloud. The controller cleared the aircraft on track to Kinloss and asked the pilot to advise her before making any “big turns” because the aircraft was in the “TMA environment” and potentially in conflict with aircraft under her control bound for Edinburgh.
As the aircraft approached the lateral limits of the Edinburgh Control Area (CTA) from the south, the pilot requested and was cleared to make a further climb to 10,000 ft in order to remain clear of cloud. Five minutes later the pilot reported ‘cloud ahead the base looks quite high could I have permission to descend 5,000 ft same heading ’. Initially, SACC cleared the aircraft to FL70, due to traffic in the CTA, and instructed the pilot to contact Edinburgh Radar. The pilot read back the correct frequency but had not made contact with Edinburgh ATC before the aircraft entered the CTA. It exited the CTA northbound at an altitude of approximately 4,500 ft and continued to descend to 2,000 ft.
The pilot held a National Private Pilot’s Licence which does not permit flight under instrument flight rules and therefore does not permit flight in Class A airspace. There is no record of the pilot holding a valid flight radio telephony operator’s licence at the time of the flight.
Flight in Class D airspace requires a clearance either via radio telephony or by prior arrangement. The commander of an aircraft flying in an aerodrome traffic zone is required to obtain permission to do so from the associated ATC unit and to maintain a continuous watch for instructions (though not necessarily by radio). The Edinburgh ATC unit reported entry of the aircraft into the CTA without clearance as an infringement.
Infringement of controlled airspace and flight within the Edinburgh ATZ without permission did not directly affect the outcome.
If on the other hand, you have accepted the AAIB report and the failings which it has highlighted in your performance, and have taken appropriate instruction or guidance to bring yourself up to a safe standard of flying, then I wish you every success for future flights and welcome you in to the airspace as a fellow aviator who can display the necessary competence and skill which is required by us all.
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Northants
Is anybody else reading "Biggles"'s posts in the voice of Count Arthur Strong... YouTube - Count Arthur Strong's Radio Show
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 549
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From: The frozen north....
"Maybe what GA needs is an airfield or two, positioned in such a way that aircraft could make this journey without stretching the fuel so much. How about airfields at...... say.....Carlisle and Perth? That might be ideal for such a journey. "
Dont be a crazy fool, you'll be expecting airfields at Cumbernauld and Glenrothes next!
Dont be a crazy fool, you'll be expecting airfields at Cumbernauld and Glenrothes next!