Light aircraft down in Dundee
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 144
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From: In a house
Seriously his logbook fell out and got nicked by a squirrel, best laugh I have had for ages, Biggles really does score 11/10 for arrogance! Of course it might be believable if he hadn't done such a good job with keeping the wings level.....
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 66
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From: dublin, ireland
Vince the vindicated
only found this today:
http://www.pilotworkshops.com/public/397.cfm
listen to the third talk, among other things on Water vs. trees vs. roads - which is preferable when?
Our American Expert Recommends landing in ...trees!!!
http://www.pilotworkshops.com/public/397.cfm
listen to the third talk, among other things on Water vs. trees vs. roads - which is preferable when?
Our American Expert Recommends landing in ...trees!!!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 252
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From: Midlands, England
Any latest news ?
I wonder if there are any updates, it's been a very interesting topic.
Are the CAA taking an interest in this and has there been an accident report ? I can't find one at the present time.
Any updates guys ? I'm itching to find the final outcome of this flight.
Are the CAA taking an interest in this and has there been an accident report ? I can't find one at the present time.
Any updates guys ? I'm itching to find the final outcome of this flight.
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: chelmsford
In answer to your question....
The AAIB Bulletin is now complete and scheduled for publication soon. Confidentiality precludes me saying anything more.
The CAA is engaged in an investigation of the allegations ( mostly made on PPRuNe) and I have cooperated fully and openly, sending them a copy of my original report to the AAIB, giving a host of evidence and answering every question they have asked. I do not know when they will conclude.
In the meantime I have had some very good correspondence (mainly started through the publicity from PPRuNe) with some serious pilots and instructors curious about the pancake technique. It seems that it was a part of the ops manual (just as I described it) for the Burma campaign, but the instructor who got in touch with me was completely unaware that the manoevre was frequently used in WWI and had been immortalised by Capt. W E Johns in the "Biggles" book! The RFC bequeathed it to the RAF.
My Bridge partner, Alan Simmons, was a Mosquito navigator in WWII and described to me after the event the many who tried the pancake technique after engine failure over the forests of Norway, Belgium and Germany. Most died instantly but a few survived. The CT, with its highly safe cockpit cage; its wonderful aerodynamics and its carbon fibre construction, made the landing a lot more survivable than a ply-balsa Mosquito carrying the weight of TWO Merlins and a glide ratio and speed that made a brick look good. (HIS words before you Mossie fans protest!).
Thank you for your continued interest and I hope that you will find the AAIB bulletin interesting and a help to safe flying.
Vince (the pilot!)
The CAA is engaged in an investigation of the allegations ( mostly made on PPRuNe) and I have cooperated fully and openly, sending them a copy of my original report to the AAIB, giving a host of evidence and answering every question they have asked. I do not know when they will conclude.
In the meantime I have had some very good correspondence (mainly started through the publicity from PPRuNe) with some serious pilots and instructors curious about the pancake technique. It seems that it was a part of the ops manual (just as I described it) for the Burma campaign, but the instructor who got in touch with me was completely unaware that the manoevre was frequently used in WWI and had been immortalised by Capt. W E Johns in the "Biggles" book! The RFC bequeathed it to the RAF.
My Bridge partner, Alan Simmons, was a Mosquito navigator in WWII and described to me after the event the many who tried the pancake technique after engine failure over the forests of Norway, Belgium and Germany. Most died instantly but a few survived. The CT, with its highly safe cockpit cage; its wonderful aerodynamics and its carbon fibre construction, made the landing a lot more survivable than a ply-balsa Mosquito carrying the weight of TWO Merlins and a glide ratio and speed that made a brick look good. (HIS words before you Mossie fans protest!).
Thank you for your continued interest and I hope that you will find the AAIB bulletin interesting and a help to safe flying.
Vince (the pilot!)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: UK
no carb heat, Rotax 912
no carb heat, Rotax 912
from a distant post on this thread- not true has an electric carb heat
Also re mogas at 10000ft - I think this is because it is assumed (by the regulator) that aircraft operating at this altitude will be turbocharged and need 100LL to preclude possible detonation problems. Mogas is much better for Rotax -100LL causes lead fouling
Dave
from a distant post on this thread- not true has an electric carb heat
Also re mogas at 10000ft - I think this is because it is assumed (by the regulator) that aircraft operating at this altitude will be turbocharged and need 100LL to preclude possible detonation problems. Mogas is much better for Rotax -100LL causes lead fouling
Dave
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 144
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From: In a house
If one had to ditch in strong wind conditions then hopefully the wind is around ninety degrees to the swell directionand one could avoid burying ones nose into the next wave. Given these conditions would you advise landing into wind in the sea as opposed to on a mile long wide sand beach fifty yards away?
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 7,176
Likes: 297
From: Nanaimo (CAC8)
Why did I have to stumble on this thread at 2300!
Last night I found this thread just before I planned to go to bed. I hadn't seen it before. My usual SOP with large threads like this is to read the first page to see what happened and then go to the last page.
Well, not this time! As several others have pointed out, it's a real "page-turner". So three hours later at 0200, I go off to bed after having had the most entertaining read that I've ever had on PPRuNe - even better than Oban.
It's not surprising I missed it first time around. Post 513 was 13 days after the first - this must be some kind of record .
Vince, if you are still flying or intend to in the future, I would steer clear of Wales:
(Image from this thread: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...llys-t-ts.html - thanks to FO Stout)
I cannot wait to see the report.
I42
Well, not this time! As several others have pointed out, it's a real "page-turner". So three hours later at 0200, I go off to bed after having had the most entertaining read that I've ever had on PPRuNe - even better than Oban.
It's not surprising I missed it first time around. Post 513 was 13 days after the first - this must be some kind of record .
Vince, if you are still flying or intend to in the future, I would steer clear of Wales:
(Image from this thread: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...llys-t-ts.html - thanks to FO Stout)
I cannot wait to see the report.
I42
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: chelmsford
reply to airpolice
Firstly the fairway I selected looked long enough but I could only "see" it at first as a swathe cut from the trees. I could not see the ground at all. At very much the last minute,as I was lining up on "fairway finals", I was able to see that four golfers were in my path approaching the "green" and another four were just setting off from the"Tee".
The first four were exactly where I needed to touch down and the second four were (safer) but where I would be trying to stop before shooting off into the trees, assuming I had avoided the bunkers; bushes or whatever other obstructions the course designers had put there to distinguish the course from a runway!
Why were there EIGHT golfers on this particular fairway? Wednesday is "club competition" day at the Caird Park Golf Club and they were playing foursomes or fourballs or something. Another four on the next "Tee"; witnessed the entire manoevre and reported it very accurately in the local paper!
The tree was the only option safe to those on the ground. Beyond it on my track was a busy dual carriageway then a housing estate.
As for your comments on fuel, you will have to wait for the AAIB bulletin. My fully planned and discussed (with pilots at Walney used to the terrain) alternates were Carlisle; Dundee and Inverness (since there is no AVgas at Kinloss).
All the best,
Vince
The first four were exactly where I needed to touch down and the second four were (safer) but where I would be trying to stop before shooting off into the trees, assuming I had avoided the bunkers; bushes or whatever other obstructions the course designers had put there to distinguish the course from a runway!
Why were there EIGHT golfers on this particular fairway? Wednesday is "club competition" day at the Caird Park Golf Club and they were playing foursomes or fourballs or something. Another four on the next "Tee"; witnessed the entire manoevre and reported it very accurately in the local paper!
The tree was the only option safe to those on the ground. Beyond it on my track was a busy dual carriageway then a housing estate.
As for your comments on fuel, you will have to wait for the AAIB bulletin. My fully planned and discussed (with pilots at Walney used to the terrain) alternates were Carlisle; Dundee and Inverness (since there is no AVgas at Kinloss).
All the best,
Vince
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 63
From: UK
Vince
It still doesn't seem to have dawned on you that better planning and preparation could have prevented the accident and lose of your plane. It also doesn't seem to have dawned that you were very lucky you didn't hurt yourself or lose your life.
You are still making excuses for yourself and as a result my fingers are tightly crossed that no-one ever signs you off to fly solo again. Sadly they might already have done so.
BTW according to their websites there is also AvGas at Cumbernauld and Fife, so I fail to see why you were pressing on with the needle almost on the stop, and I wonder why they were not mentioned to you. However, the bottom line is you were PIC, it was up to *you* to formulate a safe plan including getting the correct fuel without running any risk of running short, and it seems likely to me that you failed to do so.
It still doesn't seem to have dawned on you that better planning and preparation could have prevented the accident and lose of your plane. It also doesn't seem to have dawned that you were very lucky you didn't hurt yourself or lose your life.
You are still making excuses for yourself and as a result my fingers are tightly crossed that no-one ever signs you off to fly solo again. Sadly they might already have done so.
BTW according to their websites there is also AvGas at Cumbernauld and Fife, so I fail to see why you were pressing on with the needle almost on the stop, and I wonder why they were not mentioned to you. However, the bottom line is you were PIC, it was up to *you* to formulate a safe plan including getting the correct fuel without running any risk of running short, and it seems likely to me that you failed to do so.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 63
From: UK
I suspect the holes were so big they didn't have to line up anything like perfectly. I also suspect that if Vince doesn't like the AAIB conclusions he won't hold back from telling us how they got it wrong.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 649
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From: .
It's all very well folk sitting in front of a computer in the comfort of the home saying "ah, but you could've done this instead", but we weren't there. We weren't in the situation at the time, nor did we have to deal with the emergency and the circumstances at the time and make a split-second decision at that time. How can we judge when we weren't there?
Perhaps a more useful thing for all of us would be to wait for the AAIB report, have a good read at it and learn any lessons from it should there be lessons to be learned, rather than bumming around here slagging off the person involved.
Smithy
Perhaps a more useful thing for all of us would be to wait for the AAIB report, have a good read at it and learn any lessons from it should there be lessons to be learned, rather than bumming around here slagging off the person involved.
Smithy
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
The AAIB are known throughout the flying world as impartial reporters. They absolutely never allocate blame.
However, they are world leaders in the use of diplomatic language. Those who understand diplomatic language will surely be able to get the drift of what the experts really think when the report is published.
Who knows, Biggles might even be able to gain the odd crumb of comfort from the report and will, no doubt, be offering tree-landing courses for a very modest fee in the grounds of Hampton Court Palace or the Deer Park, Richmond having been totally exonerated (in his own mind).
However, they are world leaders in the use of diplomatic language. Those who understand diplomatic language will surely be able to get the drift of what the experts really think when the report is published.
Who knows, Biggles might even be able to gain the odd crumb of comfort from the report and will, no doubt, be offering tree-landing courses for a very modest fee in the grounds of Hampton Court Palace or the Deer Park, Richmond having been totally exonerated (in his own mind).