A suggestion for the private pilot forum:
Moderator
Chuck has an excellent idea. Perhaps a challenge to take from the idea stage to the action stage, but I'm all behind it, and would help if asked....
Perhaps with the acceptance of the PPRuNe "panel of experts" the "regulars" here could nominate candidates, who would then offer substantiation for such an accreditation, and be so granted with the acceptance of the rest.
In my opinion, it would offer a valuable reassurance for the "new asker" that the answer was worthy, and thus actually useful.
Pilot DAR
Perhaps with the acceptance of the PPRuNe "panel of experts" the "regulars" here could nominate candidates, who would then offer substantiation for such an accreditation, and be so granted with the acceptance of the rest.
In my opinion, it would offer a valuable reassurance for the "new asker" that the answer was worthy, and thus actually useful.
Pilot DAR
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A difficult one to police. I doubt BRL would have any time or wish to start checking logbooks etc.
I quite like the self policing method we've had here from the beginning. You do occasionally get fun and games like we've had here for the past few days, but these things have a way of sorting themselves out as I think this one is about to.
I've learnt a fair bit from posts from inexperienced people as well as learning a huge amount from the more experienced emebers of the board.
So a good idea, but a hard one to implement and I'm not sure how much better it would be compared to the current self regulating free for all.
I tend to only pay attention to posts from certain people anyway. It's just something you learn after being on here for a while.
I quite like the self policing method we've had here from the beginning. You do occasionally get fun and games like we've had here for the past few days, but these things have a way of sorting themselves out as I think this one is about to.
I've learnt a fair bit from posts from inexperienced people as well as learning a huge amount from the more experienced emebers of the board.
So a good idea, but a hard one to implement and I'm not sure how much better it would be compared to the current self regulating free for all.
I tend to only pay attention to posts from certain people anyway. It's just something you learn after being on here for a while.
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I was the inexperienced person behind this request!
It looks like sticking my neck out about an issue that I didn't really have an in-depth knowledge about what not a great idea!
In any case even though it didn't sound like it at the time I do appreciate the contribution by Chuck, Pilot DAR and others and will read through their posts again - SLOWLY this time!
What might be useful is a bit more biographical information on the left hand side about the user - i.e. so many hours, rating, books written, experience and so on.
It looks like sticking my neck out about an issue that I didn't really have an in-depth knowledge about what not a great idea!
In any case even though it didn't sound like it at the time I do appreciate the contribution by Chuck, Pilot DAR and others and will read through their posts again - SLOWLY this time!
What might be useful is a bit more biographical information on the left hand side about the user - i.e. so many hours, rating, books written, experience and so on.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Chuck,
As per Say Again Slowly's comment, I would doubt that increasing the moderator workload would be a good move.
From a technical point of view, the underlying forum software does seem to have a few features which mirror your proposal...
vBulletin Manual - User Reputation
...but I have seen forums where this has been added, and subsequently deleted; you can get some wierd kind of forum beauty contest dynamics being caused as a result.
From an orthogonal perspective, I have seen that the concept of a forum 'Sin Bin' can have some positive results. Forumites who, on the face of it, seem purely to have an antagonstic, aggressive or simply attention-seeking agenda are confined to a closed forum wherein they can only interact with a set of moderators. I have no idea of exactly what goes on in there, but either the reprobates emerge as chastened forum citizens, or they don't emerge at all.
For Pprune, I think the problem of accreditation is probably more acute in the mainstream Professional forums - given that they do seem to be the first port of call for journalists looking for copy, and often opinions expressed there can appear in the news media without any real verification of the credentials of the source. Minor perturbations in the calm waters of Private Flying such as we have seen recently are arguably small beer in comparison.
You can, however, count on my vote should the approach you suggest be taken up by the management.
Ed.
As per Say Again Slowly's comment, I would doubt that increasing the moderator workload would be a good move.
From a technical point of view, the underlying forum software does seem to have a few features which mirror your proposal...
vBulletin Manual - User Reputation
...but I have seen forums where this has been added, and subsequently deleted; you can get some wierd kind of forum beauty contest dynamics being caused as a result.
From an orthogonal perspective, I have seen that the concept of a forum 'Sin Bin' can have some positive results. Forumites who, on the face of it, seem purely to have an antagonstic, aggressive or simply attention-seeking agenda are confined to a closed forum wherein they can only interact with a set of moderators. I have no idea of exactly what goes on in there, but either the reprobates emerge as chastened forum citizens, or they don't emerge at all.
For Pprune, I think the problem of accreditation is probably more acute in the mainstream Professional forums - given that they do seem to be the first port of call for journalists looking for copy, and often opinions expressed there can appear in the news media without any real verification of the credentials of the source. Minor perturbations in the calm waters of Private Flying such as we have seen recently are arguably small beer in comparison.
You can, however, count on my vote should the approach you suggest be taken up by the management.
Ed.
Last edited by eharding; 21st Sep 2008 at 23:35.
Moderator
Having considered the well thought out comments, how about this concept: A skicky post titled "ask the Mentors", the opening page of which would present to any and all readers who the nominated and accepted mentors are, and where their strengths lie in assiting those with questions. Where a good question (not to suggest that there are bad ones, you know what I mean...) is presented, it could be restarted as a new post by that mentor, and perhaps an answer offered, then that question will have the necessary open visibility, and take on the life of its own appropriate to the depth of the question. It can then start and finish in the normal scheme of posts, but with the knowledge that a "mentor" took some onwership for it, and it is entitled to credible and serious attention and comment...
Pilot DAR
Pilot DAR
niknak
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One of the great things about this forum is that you don't get a set opinion from "closed minds", which is exactly may occur if Chucks suggestion was implemented.
I know from extensive experience as someone who trains ATCOs and is a qualified examiner in ATC, that the worst thing that can happen when an important question is asked, is to just field it amongst the examiners and not those who deal with the subject every day of their working lives.
As well meant as Chuck may have been, it would be a sad and dangerous day if the Mod's ever restricted opinion to those whose higher flying qualifications make their opinions seem more worthy than those who are just basically qualified but fly as many hours if not more.
I know from extensive experience as someone who trains ATCOs and is a qualified examiner in ATC, that the worst thing that can happen when an important question is asked, is to just field it amongst the examiners and not those who deal with the subject every day of their working lives.
As well meant as Chuck may have been, it would be a sad and dangerous day if the Mod's ever restricted opinion to those whose higher flying qualifications make their opinions seem more worthy than those who are just basically qualified but fly as many hours if not more.
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I thought that this was an internet forum? You know, the place where arguing, egos, heated discussions and opinions happen?
The problem is when there are more inflammatory and boring threads than interesting ones. If people posted more interesting threads the PPRuNe yin and yang would once again be in balance.
The problem is when there are more inflammatory and boring threads than interesting ones. If people posted more interesting threads the PPRuNe yin and yang would once again be in balance.
Thread Starter
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One of the great things about this forum is that you don't get a set opinion from "closed minds", which is exactly may occur if Chucks suggestion was implemented.
Sorry for having made a suggestion that on second thought was not workable.
I am going to delete my posts prior to this as I do not need this kind of crap in my life.
Sorry for having made a suggestion that on second thought was not workable.
I am going to delete my posts prior to this as I do not need this kind of crap in my life.
Thread Starter
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Not really nitnak it is just easier for me to give people like you a clear board so the people who come here can embrace you fully and thus become better pilots.
So have at it hero, you give them advice on how to fly.
So have at it hero, you give them advice on how to fly.
Moderator
As well meant as Chuck may have been, it would be a sad and dangerous day if the Mod's ever restricted opinion to those whose higher flying qualifications make their opinions seem more worthy than those who are just basically qualified but fly as many hours if not more.
There are many magazines in which opportunities are presented for readers to ask the staff of the magazine questions on specific subjects. I see this as being a very similar situation, other than the vastly improved situation of likely getting many answers, instead of just one, and not having to wait a whole month! Add to that the opportunity to re-ask and clarify if need be!
None of what has been proposed would in any way limit the function or utility of the forum as is is now, it would just be an additional feature, which could serve to attract and reassure those who value the information content of an answer (as opposed to offhanded remarks of a more humorous nature - though we can have those too!), and would like to know a bit more about the answerer.
In the context of absolutely no loss of forum utility, and a means to offer better information in the way it has been sought by some posters, I whole heartedly stand behind Chuck's suggestion.
More open minds for the greater good, with respect to this worthwhile suggestion....?
Pilot DAR
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I occasionally hang out at Slashdot (Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters), sort of PPRuNe for geeks. Slashdot is much, much bigger than PPRuNe and they've implemented a "mod points" system.
I don't know exactly how it works, but what it comes down to is that readers can modify a post "up" or "down", I think on a scale of 0 to 5. In the standard view of the forum, only the posts that rise above a certain (user-configurable) level are displayed in full, and others are displayed in an abbreviated format or not at all.
Of course if you want to there are buttons and other ways to display all posts.
In order to avoid everybody modding everybody up, I think that mod points work in a sort of trade mechanism: when you write an interesting article, this is modded up by others. This gives you mod points which allow you to mod a post up yourself.
Plus, posts of writers who regularly write good posts start out with more mod points than posts of windbags, or anonymous posters.
The beauty of the system is that it allows everybody to post, even the windbags. It's not a black and white banning system where you can post as equal, or not at all. And it can be coupled to a sort of 'reputation' system: the more mod power someone has, the more he or she is apparently appreciated by the community.
I don't know exactly how it works, but what it comes down to is that readers can modify a post "up" or "down", I think on a scale of 0 to 5. In the standard view of the forum, only the posts that rise above a certain (user-configurable) level are displayed in full, and others are displayed in an abbreviated format or not at all.
Of course if you want to there are buttons and other ways to display all posts.
In order to avoid everybody modding everybody up, I think that mod points work in a sort of trade mechanism: when you write an interesting article, this is modded up by others. This gives you mod points which allow you to mod a post up yourself.
Plus, posts of writers who regularly write good posts start out with more mod points than posts of windbags, or anonymous posters.
The beauty of the system is that it allows everybody to post, even the windbags. It's not a black and white banning system where you can post as equal, or not at all. And it can be coupled to a sort of 'reputation' system: the more mod power someone has, the more he or she is apparently appreciated by the community.
The Original Whirly
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If the information of at least certain posters, who contributed regularly, were presented or available in advance, the person asking the question might choose to direct it, or at least consider an answer in a specific light, based on the origin of the answer.
Chuck, my friend, your profile is a masterpiece of brevity. It tells us you have an ATPL, that you're a pilot, and come from Vancouver Island. Well, maybe the mere ownership of an ATPL ought to be enough to convince any low hours PPL of your great knowledge, but an awful lot of people pass the ATPL exams and don't know a lot, perhaps never even fly again!!!! OK, I KNOW you're not one of them!!!!!
May I respectfully suggest that people -and particularly high-houred, knowledgeable pilots on here - who object to not being taken seriously, fill in their profiles in as much detail as there is space for.
And anyone who asks a question, and wonders if the responder knows what he/she is talking about....click on the profile.Easy, innit? Now we can discuss what to do about people who make up qualifications and lie!!!! Maybe it's easier to go down the pub and ask the nearest chap at the bar instead.
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I don't think it's a bad idea at all, just difficult to work. I seem to remember Pprune having the User Reputation enabled in the past (it may have been another board though) and it caused all sorts of hissy fits and tantrums!
I have seen a board that used a "thanks" system. If people found a post interesting or useful, then they could click on it and the poster recieved a "thanks" next to their name. It helped sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
Though I have no idea if this board sotware offers that sort of thing.
It might be an idea and could help cut down them amount of rubbish that is posted all across Pprune, not just in Private flying. Rumours and News is just a total bunfight now, full of posts by people with the aviation knowedge of a bag of peanuts.
"I fly as a passenger once a year, but here's what I think caused this accident..........." Give me strength!
I have seen a board that used a "thanks" system. If people found a post interesting or useful, then they could click on it and the poster recieved a "thanks" next to their name. It helped sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
Though I have no idea if this board sotware offers that sort of thing.
It might be an idea and could help cut down them amount of rubbish that is posted all across Pprune, not just in Private flying. Rumours and News is just a total bunfight now, full of posts by people with the aviation knowedge of a bag of peanuts.
"I fly as a passenger once a year, but here's what I think caused this accident..........." Give me strength!
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I think it's a good idea and definitely worth a try on a 'suck it and see' basis. What about giving it say, 6 months and then reviewing it?
Some names:
Chuck, Beagle, Fuji, Justiciar (where's he these days?), Whirly and Whirls - just for starters. I could probably think of a few more in the next couple of days.
Some names:
Chuck, Beagle, Fuji, Justiciar (where's he these days?), Whirly and Whirls - just for starters. I could probably think of a few more in the next couple of days.
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Complete and utter waste of time and will end up with those thinking they know better using the position to brow beat others as already happens now but with an official stick.
Then of course what happens to those who think they should be asked due to considerable experience and are vetoed by the self appointed experts because they will have no doubt crossed swords at some stage.
It is not broke and does not need fixing. If people find the forum to volatile then they can go elsewhere. I personally find Paul does a pretty good job at moderation.
And at the end of the day, this is a rumour network not a kindergarten for those who need hand holding. There is a perfectly good students forum here and on flyer.
Then of course what happens to those who think they should be asked due to considerable experience and are vetoed by the self appointed experts because they will have no doubt crossed swords at some stage.
It is not broke and does not need fixing. If people find the forum to volatile then they can go elsewhere. I personally find Paul does a pretty good job at moderation.
And at the end of the day, this is a rumour network not a kindergarten for those who need hand holding. There is a perfectly good students forum here and on flyer.
niknak
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Chuck, you seem to have taken my comments as personal slight, which was not the intention at all.
Going the basis that you're never too old (or young) to learn, I just think that if you restrict the amount of information and ideas on these pages, many pilots (prospective, learning or qualified) will miss out on valuable tips and advice.
The other good thing about such open discussion is that the dafter ideas and attitudes which do appear here are usually constructively squashed by people who do know better.
Back to you fella...
Going the basis that you're never too old (or young) to learn, I just think that if you restrict the amount of information and ideas on these pages, many pilots (prospective, learning or qualified) will miss out on valuable tips and advice.
The other good thing about such open discussion is that the dafter ideas and attitudes which do appear here are usually constructively squashed by people who do know better.
Back to you fella...