Trimming, Landing & Instructors - HELP!!!
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David - I wasn't going to post on this thread again, quite simply because I've come to the conclusion that you may actually be too stupid to listen to any type of reason. However, I think this thread should be required reading for all novice pilots who don't have a death wish.
The simple truth is, arrogance and stupidity go together with flying like strawberries and mustard. I don't know much, but I do know that.
GA is under enough pressure in this country without you driving your plane into someone's house because you decided that Newton's Third law of Motion was a matter of opinion.
Do you realise how lucky you are to have access to some of the experience on this forum? And it's all free. Yet you think this is a 'debate' amongst equals.
YOUR ATTITUDE IS GOING TO GET YOU KILLED.
Please try not to take anyone else with you.
The simple truth is, arrogance and stupidity go together with flying like strawberries and mustard. I don't know much, but I do know that.
GA is under enough pressure in this country without you driving your plane into someone's house because you decided that Newton's Third law of Motion was a matter of opinion.
Do you realise how lucky you are to have access to some of the experience on this forum? And it's all free. Yet you think this is a 'debate' amongst equals.
YOUR ATTITUDE IS GOING TO GET YOU KILLED.
Please try not to take anyone else with you.
Moderator - please can you delete extreme posts like this please.
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I think the reason why so many people in this thread are upset is because they have always landed a certain way and here's a new upstart PPL trying to say something different. Bad for the ego. I'd probably react the same if I were they. When it comes to landings maybe it's best to stick with the way you know best? Learning to land sure takes up a huge chunk of any PPL course!
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No David, that isn't the case at all. I couldn't give two hoots what an "upstart PPL" thinks about my landing technique.
I know what works and why. You obviously don't understand the physics and aerodynamics behind it. Which is the problem.
You are trying to say that you know what you are doing, when in reality you are landing safely because of repetition not knowledge.
Do you find your landings aren't consistent? Do you find that there is often a big difference between your aiming point and where you actually touchdown?
I might have one slightly dodgy landing in every hundred (and when I say slightly dodgy I mean not touching exactly where I want, not crashing it in and loosening fillings and rivets) if you thought about the landings you are doing. Could you say the same thing? If not why not. I've already said I'm no Biggles, so there must be a reason for the difference. Experience. Yes, but mainly knowledge brought about by greater experience.
Having a good think about the principles behind flying would be useful and have another read of all that has been written here. There is some very good stuff. You've had the benefit of easily 100+ years of flying knowledge handed to you here and yet you think you might have a better way..............C'mon use your noggin and realise just how stupid that sounds.
I know what works and why. You obviously don't understand the physics and aerodynamics behind it. Which is the problem.
You are trying to say that you know what you are doing, when in reality you are landing safely because of repetition not knowledge.
Do you find your landings aren't consistent? Do you find that there is often a big difference between your aiming point and where you actually touchdown?
I might have one slightly dodgy landing in every hundred (and when I say slightly dodgy I mean not touching exactly where I want, not crashing it in and loosening fillings and rivets) if you thought about the landings you are doing. Could you say the same thing? If not why not. I've already said I'm no Biggles, so there must be a reason for the difference. Experience. Yes, but mainly knowledge brought about by greater experience.
Having a good think about the principles behind flying would be useful and have another read of all that has been written here. There is some very good stuff. You've had the benefit of easily 100+ years of flying knowledge handed to you here and yet you think you might have a better way..............C'mon use your noggin and realise just how stupid that sounds.
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Do you find that there is often a big difference between your aiming point and where you actually touchdown?
I'm pretty consistent on the airfield I know well, especially with powered approaches. Glide approaches need some more practice (so my examiner told me!) I sometimes also get the wrong picture on wide runways so I flare too high, but have done some work on that and they are much better now.
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Hey David,
I'd watch asking for extreme posts to be deleted... If that were to be done, a lot of what you are posting would have to be deleted first!
Your clinging to some misinformed belief that you have uniquely found a better way to assure good landings in a Cessna 152 is amusing to many of "us", and very pilot career limiting to you... How...
Unless you are going to buy every aircraft you fly, and then not insure it, you will be presented with the need from time to time to demonstrate your skills to other pilots, who upon satisfaction, will provide whatever recommendation is needed for you to fly that aircraft. Those pilots, and I certainly have been one many times, are watching for know it alls - they are the worst kind of person to let loose in a new plane.
This past spring, I was asked to check myself out in a Bellanca Viking, so I could then check out the new owner. I have a total of 1 hour flying a Viking, more than 25 years ago. Does it sound odd to you that an insurance company would (a
insure me to fly a high performance single with no check out, (b then check someone else out in it, and (c take my word that he can fly it safely and insure him because of what I (not Viking expert) said about his flying? You're still busy trying to convince a check out instructor at the flying club that you have not forgotten how to fly since your last rental a month ago!
So what's the difference? The insurance company apparently has enough confidence in me that they are certain (for the cost of a Bellanca Viking anyway) that I will figure the plane out safely on my own, and then recognize a good pilot in that plane when I see him/her fly it. And what's the element of flying a plane that a pilot new to that plane is most likely going to screw up at crash? Landing it.
So apparently the insurance company (indeed, more than one) is satisfied that I can figure out how to land any piston powered land or seaplane, because that's what I'm insured to do, including test flying following modification.
So if the insurance company, who has millions of dollars of risk exposure out there has confidence that I have it well figure out, why wouldn't you?
David, if your flying career progresses to the point where you point where you fly other types of aircraft, memorizing airspeeds, and blindly employing a technique by rote, which seems to work on a C152, because you refused to willingly learn and embrace other ways of accomplishing the same end result safely, will be the most career limiting thing you can do to yourself. You will just never be allowed to fly other people's aircraft. If that is the case, yes, you wasted a small fortune learning to fly, and worse, you threw away the opportunity to be welcomed into a circle of really interesting people.
Your apparent objectives defy logic!
Pilot DAR
No smiley faces intended, they seemed to have popped in on their own?!
I'd watch asking for extreme posts to be deleted... If that were to be done, a lot of what you are posting would have to be deleted first!
Your clinging to some misinformed belief that you have uniquely found a better way to assure good landings in a Cessna 152 is amusing to many of "us", and very pilot career limiting to you... How...
Unless you are going to buy every aircraft you fly, and then not insure it, you will be presented with the need from time to time to demonstrate your skills to other pilots, who upon satisfaction, will provide whatever recommendation is needed for you to fly that aircraft. Those pilots, and I certainly have been one many times, are watching for know it alls - they are the worst kind of person to let loose in a new plane.
This past spring, I was asked to check myself out in a Bellanca Viking, so I could then check out the new owner. I have a total of 1 hour flying a Viking, more than 25 years ago. Does it sound odd to you that an insurance company would (a
insure me to fly a high performance single with no check out, (b then check someone else out in it, and (c take my word that he can fly it safely and insure him because of what I (not Viking expert) said about his flying? You're still busy trying to convince a check out instructor at the flying club that you have not forgotten how to fly since your last rental a month ago!So what's the difference? The insurance company apparently has enough confidence in me that they are certain (for the cost of a Bellanca Viking anyway) that I will figure the plane out safely on my own, and then recognize a good pilot in that plane when I see him/her fly it. And what's the element of flying a plane that a pilot new to that plane is most likely going to screw up at crash? Landing it.
So apparently the insurance company (indeed, more than one) is satisfied that I can figure out how to land any piston powered land or seaplane, because that's what I'm insured to do, including test flying following modification.
So if the insurance company, who has millions of dollars of risk exposure out there has confidence that I have it well figure out, why wouldn't you?
David, if your flying career progresses to the point where you point where you fly other types of aircraft, memorizing airspeeds, and blindly employing a technique by rote, which seems to work on a C152, because you refused to willingly learn and embrace other ways of accomplishing the same end result safely, will be the most career limiting thing you can do to yourself. You will just never be allowed to fly other people's aircraft. If that is the case, yes, you wasted a small fortune learning to fly, and worse, you threw away the opportunity to be welcomed into a circle of really interesting people.
Your apparent objectives defy logic!
Pilot DAR
No smiley faces intended, they seemed to have popped in on their own?!
Last edited by Pilot DAR; 19th Sep 2008 at 16:15. Reason: Somehow smilel faces appeared
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If you are only consistent on one airfield, then that says to me that you are flying using the "monkey see, monkey do" approach. ie You can do it consistently there because you know that at point A you do one thing, point B another.
This isn't the same as actually knowing what you are doing. When something changes, you aren't able to compensate, because the basic knowledge of why you do something isn't there.
No wonder you had trouble when you went for a checkout. What you need to do is take a step back and think about an approach and what needs to haapen for it to be successful. How can you influence the aircraft to ensure the thing ends up where you want it.
If you are too high, what do you need to do. Too low? Too fast, too slow and sinking. What flap setting would you use and why?
What speeds and why? etc.etc
Imagine the aircraft on the ground, stopped after a successful landing and work backwards from there until you get back to the Top of Descent point.
Always give yourself time and space, don't rush your approach or cut corners. Plan it all in advance and you'll find it all just clicks together and you suddenly seem to have eons of time on your hands.
You can get away with less thinking when you get more experienced, but for now, make sure you plan meticulously and that doesn't mean just your W&B, performance calcs and route planning.
Before you enter the circuit. Take a deep breath and think about what you will be doing next and plan when you will be doing everything in order. 30 seconds of clear thought BEFORE you enter the circuit can make all the difference. We all do it, it's just that you do it a lot faster when you are more experienced.
This isn't the same as actually knowing what you are doing. When something changes, you aren't able to compensate, because the basic knowledge of why you do something isn't there.
No wonder you had trouble when you went for a checkout. What you need to do is take a step back and think about an approach and what needs to haapen for it to be successful. How can you influence the aircraft to ensure the thing ends up where you want it.
If you are too high, what do you need to do. Too low? Too fast, too slow and sinking. What flap setting would you use and why?
What speeds and why? etc.etc
Imagine the aircraft on the ground, stopped after a successful landing and work backwards from there until you get back to the Top of Descent point.
Always give yourself time and space, don't rush your approach or cut corners. Plan it all in advance and you'll find it all just clicks together and you suddenly seem to have eons of time on your hands.
You can get away with less thinking when you get more experienced, but for now, make sure you plan meticulously and that doesn't mean just your W&B, performance calcs and route planning.
Before you enter the circuit. Take a deep breath and think about what you will be doing next and plan when you will be doing everything in order. 30 seconds of clear thought BEFORE you enter the circuit can make all the difference. We all do it, it's just that you do it a lot faster when you are more experienced.
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uniquely found a better way to assure good landings in a Cessna 152
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Before you enter the circuit. Take a deep breath and think about what you will be doing next and plan when you will be doing everything in order. 30 seconds of clear thought BEFORE you enter the circuit can make all the difference. We all do it, it's just that you do it a lot faster when you are more experienced.
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Don't worry David. He's well aware of it.
Did I forget to mention that originally I'm from North London and spent a number of years teaching people in the Essex and North London area?
Did I forget to mention that originally I'm from North London and spent a number of years teaching people in the Essex and North London area?
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The opportunity to exchange ideas with experienced professionals on this forum is well worth enduring the occasional foolishness, which is also encountered, though I agree that there's not too much farther to take this...
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Did I forget to mention that originally I'm from North London and spent a number of years teaching people in the Essex and North London area?
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There is a saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
We seem to have discovered a new truism here:
You can never reason with an idiot...taught by someone who interacts well with idiots.
We seem to have discovered a new truism here:
You can never reason with an idiot...taught by someone who interacts well with idiots.
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Don't be so silly. Calling people names doesn't display much maturity.
No one has commented on ContactTower's post (page 9). I thought that was a more honest and balanced reply than much of the pontificating here. Not to say others didn't put in good advice but a bit off topic and mostly what is in the PPL syllabus already.
Much more helpful advice given in the "Checking Out" thread I felt.
The instructors owe me a debt of gratitude for hijacking the original topic of discussion (this happened on page 2)
The Vickers Vimmy post was not meant as support for my argument, by the way.
No one has commented on ContactTower's post (page 9). I thought that was a more honest and balanced reply than much of the pontificating here. Not to say others didn't put in good advice but a bit off topic and mostly what is in the PPL syllabus already.
Much more helpful advice given in the "Checking Out" thread I felt.
The instructors owe me a debt of gratitude for hijacking the original topic of discussion (this happened on page 2)
The Vickers Vimmy post was not meant as support for my argument, by the way.
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Quote:
Before you enter the circuit. Take a deep breath and think about what you will be doing next and plan when you will be doing everything in order. 30 seconds of clear thought BEFORE you enter the circuit can make all the difference. We all do it, it's just that you do it a lot faster when you are more experienced.
Thanks for the advice. My approaches and my nav are my two best points - no problem with either!
Before you enter the circuit. Take a deep breath and think about what you will be doing next and plan when you will be doing everything in order. 30 seconds of clear thought BEFORE you enter the circuit can make all the difference. We all do it, it's just that you do it a lot faster when you are more experienced.
Thanks for the advice. My approaches and my nav are my two best points - no problem with either!
You mention that your approaches are good. Really? A good approach generally means a good landing. If yours are inconsistent at anywhere but one airfield, then I'll wager that the approach isn't as good as it could be.
You are coming across as really obtuse and are simply not grasping what has been written. Chuck has a point. I simply don't know how much clearer any of us can be. Don't just flick through the posts. Read and digest them properly. You might learn something.
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A former boss used to have a sign over his desk which read: Don't try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig". Now I am certain that I know what it means.
David (which is a name), "idiot" is not a name, it's a description of a person.
You're perhaps getting better advice on the other thread, because you learned from this thread to not be so insulting and unwilling to embrace another point of view. I suppose someone owes it to the posters on the other thread to warn them about what may await them right around the posting corner!
You think we're writing to you here, we're really not, we're writing to everybody else! What is written here is understood much more widely than perhaps you realize. There are lots of people who read here, but not necessarily post....
David (which is a name), "idiot" is not a name, it's a description of a person.
You're perhaps getting better advice on the other thread, because you learned from this thread to not be so insulting and unwilling to embrace another point of view. I suppose someone owes it to the posters on the other thread to warn them about what may await them right around the posting corner!
You think we're writing to you here, we're really not, we're writing to everybody else! What is written here is understood much more widely than perhaps you realize. There are lots of people who read here, but not necessarily post....