Tail Wheel Tips ???
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Tail Wheel Tips ???
Have just finished my 1st hour of circuits in a decathlon! So what you may say, but having close to 200 hours nosewheel, I could not believe how challenging it was! Never felts so far behind the aircraft...perhaps its me?
Stick fully forward when applying full power was so counter intuitative. I was far to vague with the rudder and at one point felt the aircraft wanted to do a 180...thank god the instructor was on the ball.
Any way my question....anybody got any "secrets to success" or "words of wisdom" on getting to grips with this new challenge?
Stick fully forward when applying full power was so counter intuitative. I was far to vague with the rudder and at one point felt the aircraft wanted to do a 180...thank god the instructor was on the ball.
Any way my question....anybody got any "secrets to success" or "words of wisdom" on getting to grips with this new challenge?
That sounds about normal for anyone trying a tailwheel aircraft for the first time.
It does get easier with practise, and the first few hours, you'll find are much easier on grass than on asphalt, too.
It does get easier with practise, and the first few hours, you'll find are much easier on grass than on asphalt, too.
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Within a few circuits, you should find that your feet become more "alive" than was required for trike u/c. You will gradually and subconsciously accept less and less deviation from centreline, correcting even the smallest error without realising it. (I now have a tendency to zigzag on landing with nosewheel types with sensitive steering)
Nailing the recommended short finals and threshhold speeds becomes very important. Once you can do this then you have repeatability of conditions at the flare and can begin to refine the landing.
Don't ever expect better than one good 3 pointer in ten!!!!
Nailing the recommended short finals and threshhold speeds becomes very important. Once you can do this then you have repeatability of conditions at the flare and can begin to refine the landing.
Don't ever expect better than one good 3 pointer in ten!!!!
One thing thats essential and critical for taildraggers........
Remember where the horizon is in relation to the windscreen whilst sitting in the three point attitude..........try to spend a couple of minutes before take off ( traffic permitting ) and keep that same mental picture for the landing.
Remember where the horizon is in relation to the windscreen whilst sitting in the three point attitude..........try to spend a couple of minutes before take off ( traffic permitting ) and keep that same mental picture for the landing.
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Was in a Cub, but one thing I was surprised at was that take-offs were more tricky to start with than landings in the Cub, especially with any kind of x-wind.
Then one day an instructor pointed out to keep that full aileron in until after rotation if necessary. Trying to remove it as wheels lift off is asking for trouble.
Agree with sitting in the aircraft just for the hell of it to get that 3-point attitude nailed.
If you fly lots of T/W then go back to N/W, you'll have lots of fun...I found I needed to do a little mental "conversion" back again to stop dancing with my feet & hauling back on the stick like an idiot!
Then one day an instructor pointed out to keep that full aileron in until after rotation if necessary. Trying to remove it as wheels lift off is asking for trouble.
Agree with sitting in the aircraft just for the hell of it to get that 3-point attitude nailed.
If you fly lots of T/W then go back to N/W, you'll have lots of fun...I found I needed to do a little mental "conversion" back again to stop dancing with my feet & hauling back on the stick like an idiot!
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If you find after landing that you still bounce around, check you have the stick fully back once you are properly on the ground. Also for crosswinds, make sure you track down the runway using wing down, then just keep the nose of the aircraft pointing straight down the runway at all times, just varying the wing down to stay in line - crab technique can be used, but IMHO is much harder.
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watch out for any power on with brakes! = bad combo! eg. when turning with a cross wind, if the wind is from the left, and you are trying to turn right, and you are needing more and more right brake and more and more power,....shut down, and turn it by hand! wind on fuselage and tail will act as if left brake on too, so increasing power and brake on right will happily tip it on it's nose! happened to someone with a supercub at my site, now i am aeroplaneless until engine and prop comes back...
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I have four digit expereince in tailwheels and unitil recently had my own super cub - that i wish i had never sold - boo hoo - and i also have lots of hours on Citabria's - they do a magnificent flick roll......... anyway - for starters at the start of the take off roll i never allowed fellow pilots to have the stick fully forward, i used to get them to have it if fully aft then after about 3 - 5 seconds after brake release then progressively get the tail up - the reason for it was that you have much greater rudder / tail wheel authority compared with getting the tail straight up in the air with minimal ground speed and weather cocking - however with all taildraggers you must listen to them as they all tell you when they want to go flying and very few of them are difficult to fly, you must remember to use your feet, you must think when taxying and always have aileron into wind and stick fully forward when taxying downwind etc, and never ever be too afraid to shut it down and push it back after landing if it is too gusty - sloppy pilots that fly out of balance or without co-ordination will have a hard time in a tailwheel - however once you have polished your skills and mastered the 3 point and wheeler landing, full sideslip approaches and STOL techniques you will never get near a tricycle again - they are undoubtedly the best type of flying machine invented - but i am a little biased flying the Stearman..... 
bring on the sunshine........!
- and i also have lots of hours on Citabria's - they do a magnificent flick roll......... anyway - for starters at the start of the take off roll i never allowed fellow pilots to have the stick fully forward, i used to get them to have it if fully aft then after about 3 - 5 seconds after brake release then progressively get the tail up - the reason for it was that you have much greater rudder / tail wheel authority compared with getting the tail straight up in the air with minimal ground speed and weather cocking - however with all taildraggers you must listen to them as they all tell you when they want to go flying and very few of them are difficult to fly, you must remember to use your feet, you must think when taxying and always have aileron into wind and stick fully forward when taxying downwind etc, and never ever be too afraid to shut it down and push it back after landing if it is too gusty - sloppy pilots that fly out of balance or without co-ordination will have a hard time in a tailwheel - however once you have polished your skills and mastered the 3 point and wheeler landing, full sideslip approaches and STOL techniques you will never get near a tricycle again - they are undoubtedly the best type of flying machine invented - but i am a little biased flying the Stearman..... bring on the sunshine........!
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I found this sitting on my desk top and must have forgot to finish it........sooo what the hell airplanes should fly the same in Britian as in Canada so here is an incompleted how to land thing for you to read.
******************************************
Lets have a look at the wheel landing.
In another thread I offered some thoughts on how to judge height and situational awareness during a landing in nose wheel airplanes and figured what the hell I might as well offer some suggestions on how to perform a wheel landing.
During the training for crossover from nose wheel airplanes to tail wheel airplanes there is a tendency on the part of instructors to focus on full stall three point landings.
Why there is this concentration on three point landings is interesting because in almost every tail wheel airplane that is available the wheel landing gives best directional control, especially with a X/wind.
So first lets look at the Flight Training Manual and see what that has to say regarding wheel landings.
There is not really much there except a short paragraph that is fuzzy at best in describing how to perform a smooth safe wheel landing.
In fact I find the description for this landing to be quite interesting.
Quote:
( From the Flight Training Manual.)
The approach should be normal with or without power according to the conditions of the day, to the point where the descent is checked. The airspeed is then decreased to the point at which the aircraft settles. Adjust the power at this point so as to descend in a level attitude at a slow rate ( approximately 100 to 300 feet per minute).
You will not be able to watch the vertical speed indicator during this stage, but with practice you can easily estimate the descent rate. A fast rate of descent could cause a hard contact with the surface, followed by a downward rotation of the tail through inertia and a subsequent bounce back up into the air. Small control adjustments only should be used as the aircraft settles to assist in descending slowly and maintain a level attitude. As the wheels smoothly contact the surface , apply gentle but firm forward pressure to hold the wheels on the ground and decrease the angle of attack. The aircraft should be held on the wheels nearly level, until it has slowed sufficiently to ensure full control in a three point attitude under existing conditions.
I teach the wheel landing a little differently, especially with regard to the rate of descent issue prior to wheel contact with the surface.
From a normal approach attitude and airspeed you commence the flare at a height which will result in the airplane being in the level attitude as the flare is completed and at the same time making contact with the surface, at wheel contact with the surface you lower the nose attitude sufficiently enough to change the angle of attack to produce zero or negative lift.
This can be done in two ways, my preference is to have the airplane trimmed hands off for the approach speed to make the approach less work and at surface contact use a slight forward movement of the elevator control to pin the airplane to the surface by dumping the lift vector.
Some pilots use nose down trim and just relax the back pressure at wheel contact, however that can pose a bit of an irritation if you need to go around for any reason as you now have a nose heavy airplane to start the climb out with.
The best prescription for a good wheel landing is quite simple…..flare at the correct height so as to not have to extend the landing distance and time in the air adjusting the rate of descent in the level attitude getting rid of height you didn’t need in the first place.
******************************************
Lets have a look at the wheel landing.
In another thread I offered some thoughts on how to judge height and situational awareness during a landing in nose wheel airplanes and figured what the hell I might as well offer some suggestions on how to perform a wheel landing.
During the training for crossover from nose wheel airplanes to tail wheel airplanes there is a tendency on the part of instructors to focus on full stall three point landings.
Why there is this concentration on three point landings is interesting because in almost every tail wheel airplane that is available the wheel landing gives best directional control, especially with a X/wind.
So first lets look at the Flight Training Manual and see what that has to say regarding wheel landings.
There is not really much there except a short paragraph that is fuzzy at best in describing how to perform a smooth safe wheel landing.
In fact I find the description for this landing to be quite interesting.
Quote:
( From the Flight Training Manual.)
The approach should be normal with or without power according to the conditions of the day, to the point where the descent is checked. The airspeed is then decreased to the point at which the aircraft settles. Adjust the power at this point so as to descend in a level attitude at a slow rate ( approximately 100 to 300 feet per minute).
You will not be able to watch the vertical speed indicator during this stage, but with practice you can easily estimate the descent rate. A fast rate of descent could cause a hard contact with the surface, followed by a downward rotation of the tail through inertia and a subsequent bounce back up into the air. Small control adjustments only should be used as the aircraft settles to assist in descending slowly and maintain a level attitude. As the wheels smoothly contact the surface , apply gentle but firm forward pressure to hold the wheels on the ground and decrease the angle of attack. The aircraft should be held on the wheels nearly level, until it has slowed sufficiently to ensure full control in a three point attitude under existing conditions.
I teach the wheel landing a little differently, especially with regard to the rate of descent issue prior to wheel contact with the surface.
From a normal approach attitude and airspeed you commence the flare at a height which will result in the airplane being in the level attitude as the flare is completed and at the same time making contact with the surface, at wheel contact with the surface you lower the nose attitude sufficiently enough to change the angle of attack to produce zero or negative lift.
This can be done in two ways, my preference is to have the airplane trimmed hands off for the approach speed to make the approach less work and at surface contact use a slight forward movement of the elevator control to pin the airplane to the surface by dumping the lift vector.
Some pilots use nose down trim and just relax the back pressure at wheel contact, however that can pose a bit of an irritation if you need to go around for any reason as you now have a nose heavy airplane to start the climb out with.
The best prescription for a good wheel landing is quite simple…..flare at the correct height so as to not have to extend the landing distance and time in the air adjusting the rate of descent in the level attitude getting rid of height you didn’t need in the first place.
Get a copy of Stick and Rudder by Langweisch
Still in print, assumes you will be flying conventional gear. Good on all aspects of flying, too. Look on Amazon.
Oh, and practice.......
Still in print, assumes you will be flying conventional gear. Good on all aspects of flying, too. Look on Amazon.
Oh, and practice.......
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Good news you are going tailwheel, all the proper pliots fly tailwheel.
Once you have mastered it you will understand why nosewheels are referred to as landomatic.
Hope you like the Decathlon. Its a pussy cat on grass but always a firm arrival on concrete (and I've never understood why). When you can P1 from the back seat then you know you can fly.
Once you have mastered it you will understand why nosewheels are referred to as landomatic.
Hope you like the Decathlon. Its a pussy cat on grass but always a firm arrival on concrete (and I've never understood why). When you can P1 from the back seat then you know you can fly.
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The Decathlon is a delight to fly but of the 10 or so tail graggers types I have flown it has to be the easiest to take off & land.
d192049d I am really not trying to belittle the challenge or your sense of achievment when you master the decathlon. You will be a bonefide member of a different class of aviator. But if you fancy a real challenge get someone to check you out on an Auster, Chipmunk or a Tigermoth! The quirky brakes (or lack of) as well as their flying & landing characteristics will send you all over the runway.
I used to check people out on an Auster years ago & can vouch for the invaluable information in The Compleat Taildragger Pilot. I leant it to each person I checked out!
d192049d I am really not trying to belittle the challenge or your sense of achievment when you master the decathlon. You will be a bonefide member of a different class of aviator. But if you fancy a real challenge get someone to check you out on an Auster, Chipmunk or a Tigermoth! The quirky brakes (or lack of) as well as their flying & landing characteristics will send you all over the runway.
I used to check people out on an Auster years ago & can vouch for the invaluable information in The Compleat Taildragger Pilot. I leant it to each person I checked out!
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A conventional gear airplane doesn't require a different skill set than an airplane with a nosewheel. It just requires that things be done properly. Slight misalignment on landing or when taking off, for example, is often not nearly as noticable, and the results not nearly as tangible, in a tricycle gear airplane. A tailwheel makes you work more honestly (some say harder, though I don't believe it) to achieve the same results.
Remember that your takeoff and landing attitudes, both two and three point, are the same as sitting in the airplane on the ground in your parking spot. Your three point attitude is the same as the airplane at rest. To practice getting the two point attitude down, put the tailwheel on a set of sawhorses or a truck bed and sit in the cockpit. Close your eyes, envision the takeoff or landing, then open them and see what you'll see when the airplane touches down, or the tailwheel lifts off. Getting the correct sight picture is half the battle.
I understand what's being said about hesitancy to push the stick forward on takeoff, but that will go away after a few takeoffs, and a few landings.
When it's calm, in some airplanes I like to hold the tailwheel up with forward pressure after a two point landing, and retract the flaps as I apply forward stick. The tail comes down as the flaps go up, and once the tail is down I can pin it with full aft stick.
On takeoff, just the opposite. Some tailwheel airplanes I fly require flaps as part of the takeoff procedure, either before applying power, or during the takeoff roll. While you're learning, I recommend not changing the aircraft configuration while you're on the roll. With a little experience, however, it's a useful rough field technique, to protect the flaps and allow a little quicker acceleration. One type I flew had a STOL system that drooped the ailerons, and the takeoff technique involved moving full forward stick while applyin full flaps, to get the tail up. (Due to the runway length, as soon as the tail was up it was full aft stick to clear obstacles on the end and the runway was behind...).
I think it's helpful to think of the tailwheel as having a maximum acceptable range; just a very little bit to the right or left behind you, before it starts to take on a mind of it's own. Within that range, something just a little less than the spread of the gear, you're okay. Let it go beyond that, it's going to take brake to catch the turn, and you may not be able to do it. That's where groundloops happen. If you can keep the tailwheel caged so it doesn't move right or left but a short distance, you won't have any problems. The way to do that is to catch small motions early, and get your control inputs in early...be ahead of the airplane instead of behind it, reacting to it. This comes with experience,and it won't take much at all to get the hang of it. Sort of like riding a bicycle...but with a third wheel.
Remember that your takeoff and landing attitudes, both two and three point, are the same as sitting in the airplane on the ground in your parking spot. Your three point attitude is the same as the airplane at rest. To practice getting the two point attitude down, put the tailwheel on a set of sawhorses or a truck bed and sit in the cockpit. Close your eyes, envision the takeoff or landing, then open them and see what you'll see when the airplane touches down, or the tailwheel lifts off. Getting the correct sight picture is half the battle.
I understand what's being said about hesitancy to push the stick forward on takeoff, but that will go away after a few takeoffs, and a few landings.
When it's calm, in some airplanes I like to hold the tailwheel up with forward pressure after a two point landing, and retract the flaps as I apply forward stick. The tail comes down as the flaps go up, and once the tail is down I can pin it with full aft stick.
On takeoff, just the opposite. Some tailwheel airplanes I fly require flaps as part of the takeoff procedure, either before applying power, or during the takeoff roll. While you're learning, I recommend not changing the aircraft configuration while you're on the roll. With a little experience, however, it's a useful rough field technique, to protect the flaps and allow a little quicker acceleration. One type I flew had a STOL system that drooped the ailerons, and the takeoff technique involved moving full forward stick while applyin full flaps, to get the tail up. (Due to the runway length, as soon as the tail was up it was full aft stick to clear obstacles on the end and the runway was behind...).
I think it's helpful to think of the tailwheel as having a maximum acceptable range; just a very little bit to the right or left behind you, before it starts to take on a mind of it's own. Within that range, something just a little less than the spread of the gear, you're okay. Let it go beyond that, it's going to take brake to catch the turn, and you may not be able to do it. That's where groundloops happen. If you can keep the tailwheel caged so it doesn't move right or left but a short distance, you won't have any problems. The way to do that is to catch small motions early, and get your control inputs in early...be ahead of the airplane instead of behind it, reacting to it. This comes with experience,and it won't take much at all to get the hang of it. Sort of like riding a bicycle...but with a third wheel.
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A conventional gear airplane doesn't require a different skill set than an airplane with a nosewheel. It just requires that things be done properly....
.........I think it's helpful to think of the tailwheel as having a maximum acceptable range; just a very little bit to the right or left behind you, before it starts to take on a mind of it's own. Within that range, something just a little less than the spread of the gear, you're okay. Let it go beyond that, it's going to take brake to catch the turn, and you may not be able to do it. That's where groundloops happen. If you can keep the tailwheel caged so it doesn't move right or left but a short distance, you won't have any problems. The way to do that is to catch small motions early, and get your control inputs in early...be ahead of the airplane instead of behind it, reacting to it. This comes with experience,and it won't take much at all to get the hang of it. Sort of like riding a bicycle...but with a third wheel.
.........I think it's helpful to think of the tailwheel as having a maximum acceptable range; just a very little bit to the right or left behind you, before it starts to take on a mind of it's own. Within that range, something just a little less than the spread of the gear, you're okay. Let it go beyond that, it's going to take brake to catch the turn, and you may not be able to do it. That's where groundloops happen. If you can keep the tailwheel caged so it doesn't move right or left but a short distance, you won't have any problems. The way to do that is to catch small motions early, and get your control inputs in early...be ahead of the airplane instead of behind it, reacting to it. This comes with experience,and it won't take much at all to get the hang of it. Sort of like riding a bicycle...but with a third wheel.
Tailwheel aeroplanes simply require that you land correctly. That's all. If you don't, they'll present you with a situation you'll need to sort out.
Nosewheel aeroplanes will accept sloppy tecnique - untill the nosewheel gives way, not neccessarily during a poor landing but perhaps as a result of an earlier lazy landing by someone who just doesn't care - or hasn't been taught.
SSD
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......my preference is to have the airplane trimmed hands off for the approach speed to make the approach less work and at surface contact use a slight forward movement of the elevator control to pin the airplane to the surface by dumping the lift vector.
Some pilots use nose down trim and just relax the back pressure at wheel contact
Some pilots use nose down trim and just relax the back pressure at wheel contact
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If you've ever ridden a motorbike in heavy traffic, you'll know what it's like to be at an increased state of alertness compared to your nice comfy Mercedes.
It's the same with taildraggers!
It's the same with taildraggers!
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Not sure I understand that technique. Surely once on the ground you have full aft stick to kill any tendency for it to take-off again. Effectively a 3-point attitude is in or close to a fully-stalled state, so why would you want to unstall the wing?
), it is then that you bring the stick fully aft.