Oban/Glenforsa News
Tks Bigears - yeh, dismissed those. Looking at it from the point of having emergency services on airport to save pax.
As I'm sure you know, they are tasked with being at the "runway in use" within three minutes of the first call to lay down a path to safety "from the fire" so that you can escape by yourself - except as the aircraft are generally certified to self evacuate within 90 seconds, in truth, they're late for what they are legally required to do !! Off airport they're usually way too late.
Only recently have some airport emer services been trained and allowed to enter an aircraft on fire and rescue pax
As I'm sure you know, they are tasked with being at the "runway in use" within three minutes of the first call to lay down a path to safety "from the fire" so that you can escape by yourself - except as the aircraft are generally certified to self evacuate within 90 seconds, in truth, they're late for what they are legally required to do !! Off airport they're usually way too late.
Only recently have some airport emer services been trained and allowed to enter an aircraft on fire and rescue pax
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GBS, roger, understood and good point!
I realise that the firemen are at Oban as a result of licensing requirements, but I'm very happy that someone is there to extract me if I cock it up in my wee spamcan. I do on occasion also operate to places where it is entirely up to me to extract myself (and more importantly any pax), which wouldn't have potentially as happy a result. Is it worth a proportion of a reasonable landing fee? To me, yes.
I realise that the firemen are at Oban as a result of licensing requirements, but I'm very happy that someone is there to extract me if I cock it up in my wee spamcan. I do on occasion also operate to places where it is entirely up to me to extract myself (and more importantly any pax), which wouldn't have potentially as happy a result. Is it worth a proportion of a reasonable landing fee? To me, yes.
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I realise that the firemen are at Oban as a result of licensing requirements, but I'm very happy that someone is there to extract me if I cock it up in my wee spamcan. I do on occasion also operate to places where it is entirely up to me to extract myself (and more importantly any pax), which wouldn't have potentially as happy a result. Is it worth a proportion of a reasonable landing fee? To me, yes.
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I'm saying that I'm happy to pay a proportion of my landing fee to have available fire cover (where it is existing already) and am not going to get drawn into a debate, although thank you for the offer.
Last edited by Bigears; 5th Mar 2013 at 23:55. Reason: To give a slightly more eloquent reply
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Appreciate Bigears you do not want to get drawn into a debate. Ditto.....
But, this is at the heart of the issue. The general war cry from the GA community is, we want as cheap landing fees as possible. How many individuals would go to Oban if the landing fee was 100 quid.?
Probably none.
And yet, we all want the facilities, we want the bells and whistles, but expect someone else to foot the bill.
In fairness to ABC, they built a pretty good facility, staffed it accordingly, and yet kept the landing fee at 15 quid. Taxpayers footing the ever mounting shortfall, which by the way is about 500k per annum.
And we will not even discuss the subsidised air service
But, this is at the heart of the issue. The general war cry from the GA community is, we want as cheap landing fees as possible. How many individuals would go to Oban if the landing fee was 100 quid.?
Probably none.
And yet, we all want the facilities, we want the bells and whistles, but expect someone else to foot the bill.
In fairness to ABC, they built a pretty good facility, staffed it accordingly, and yet kept the landing fee at 15 quid. Taxpayers footing the ever mounting shortfall, which by the way is about 500k per annum.
And we will not even discuss the subsidised air service
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Oban Follies
Be prepared for another splurge of claims about Oban Airport connecting to the world....
Total population of Oban, Lorn and The Isles is 20,434 (Source ABC)
So how is this going to work, how does a population density like that support a commercial aviation operation?
WW
Subsidised air service - I understand it's somewhere between £6-800 per passenger out of Oban !
I was just thinking about how much has been spent on fire cover at Scottish airports over the last 50 years - certainly many hundreds of millions of pounds - perhaps more in today's money !
I have a mental block that a "vehicle" such as a coach, full of fifty people, can run up and down the country/mountain roads of Scotland in all weathers without a fire truck in attendance but a small "vehicle" with 6-10 people can't land at an airport without one. Don't see the ferries or, for that matter, family yachts/boats being followed by lifeboats.
N.b. aircraft certification is based on self evacuation and all going well you will be standing outside for at least 2 minutes when the fire services arrive - unless, of course, as the story goes, at a certain Scottish airport were it will be a wee bit longer because they get their kit on before getting in the fire truck - H&S say it's too dangerous to get dressed in the truck on the way to the accident.
The airport rules, of course, come from the days when aviation was developing and crashes were frequent, the let down aids were primitive, the aircraft design standards were few, petrol was used in big radial engines etc - we didn't have TCAS, GPWS, Synthetic vision, GPS, turbine/jet engines, radar, etc.
The rules are still stuck in the 1930s and we're 80 years down the road but no public servant is going to make what would be considered a career and pension threatening move and remove all these onerous, out of date, requirements.
Be a shame to have all that "safety" in place and still get hit by a meteorite crossing the ramp - should have worn the yellow jacket !!
Just an aside, A320s / B737s etc service airports daily in Australia with not only no RFF but no ATC of any kind - they have done the safety analysis and believe statistically there is no case to answer.
I was just thinking about how much has been spent on fire cover at Scottish airports over the last 50 years - certainly many hundreds of millions of pounds - perhaps more in today's money !
I have a mental block that a "vehicle" such as a coach, full of fifty people, can run up and down the country/mountain roads of Scotland in all weathers without a fire truck in attendance but a small "vehicle" with 6-10 people can't land at an airport without one. Don't see the ferries or, for that matter, family yachts/boats being followed by lifeboats.
N.b. aircraft certification is based on self evacuation and all going well you will be standing outside for at least 2 minutes when the fire services arrive - unless, of course, as the story goes, at a certain Scottish airport were it will be a wee bit longer because they get their kit on before getting in the fire truck - H&S say it's too dangerous to get dressed in the truck on the way to the accident.
The airport rules, of course, come from the days when aviation was developing and crashes were frequent, the let down aids were primitive, the aircraft design standards were few, petrol was used in big radial engines etc - we didn't have TCAS, GPWS, Synthetic vision, GPS, turbine/jet engines, radar, etc.
The rules are still stuck in the 1930s and we're 80 years down the road but no public servant is going to make what would be considered a career and pension threatening move and remove all these onerous, out of date, requirements.
Be a shame to have all that "safety" in place and still get hit by a meteorite crossing the ramp - should have worn the yellow jacket !!
Just an aside, A320s / B737s etc service airports daily in Australia with not only no RFF but no ATC of any kind - they have done the safety analysis and believe statistically there is no case to answer.
Last edited by Good Business Sense; 6th Mar 2013 at 09:08.
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Other parts of the world can manage with more modest fire cover. Notice the two red barrels on wheels. Several airlines offer a scheduled service daily to here with up to Saab 340/Challenger size aircraft.
D.O.
Last edited by dont overfil; 6th Mar 2013 at 10:23.
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Just an aside, A320s / B737s etc service airports daily in Australia with not only no RFF but no ATC of any kind - they have done the safety analysis and believe statistically there is no case to answer.
When was the last time a life was saved by any AFS in any country?
Are they equipped to enter a burning A320 & could they do anything to improve evacuation?
No doubt to suggest such a barbaric idea as to remove the AFS would be political sewerside, & would never be considered in a civilised society like ours.
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BBC Gaelic News
Quite a long piece on BBC Alba News last night. On BBC iPlayer. Starts about 15 mins in:
BBC iPlayer - An Là: 05/03/2013
BBC iPlayer - An Là: 05/03/2013
Last edited by neutron; 6th Mar 2013 at 11:03.
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Hopefully the boys at Oban can do a better job than this.....watch video to the end.......it could have been a whole lot worse, especially as it was a friend of mine flying the aircraft!!
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Quite a long piece on BBC Alba News last night. On BBC iPlayer. Starts about 15 mins in:
BBC iPlayer - An Là: 05/03/2013
BBC iPlayer - An Là: 05/03/2013
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Aye you can get there and back in a day.
Bigger aircraft my left bum cheek though. Maybe a tri-lander.
Its the lack of instrument approaches which is going to kill as a commercial service.
I suppose you could get a Let410 in.
Bigger aircraft my left bum cheek though. Maybe a tri-lander.
Its the lack of instrument approaches which is going to kill as a commercial service.
I suppose you could get a Let410 in.
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Way, way back on this thread I posted a conversation I had with a local who had pitched up, not long after the airport had opened.
The local rag had ran a piece about RYR commencing flights, possibly, and he was interested to know when they would start. We told him that once they had excavated and removed the hill just beyond the caravan park, then all would be ok.
When does the work start was his reply
Just shows what people are dealing with as they go about their daily tasks
The local rag had ran a piece about RYR commencing flights, possibly, and he was interested to know when they would start. We told him that once they had excavated and removed the hill just beyond the caravan park, then all would be ok.
When does the work start was his reply
Just shows what people are dealing with as they go about their daily tasks
Last edited by maxred; 6th Mar 2013 at 20:35.
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It's the society we have created. They do not see it as their own money.
They see it as right. Ask them to subsidise it from their own pocket. Well do you honestly think there would be a bloody air service at 900 quid a ticket. Eh, no. All right if the taxpayer funds it to the tune of 1.2 million, per annum that is.
They see it as right. Ask them to subsidise it from their own pocket. Well do you honestly think there would be a bloody air service at 900 quid a ticket. Eh, no. All right if the taxpayer funds it to the tune of 1.2 million, per annum that is.
Last edited by maxred; 6th Mar 2013 at 21:37.