Blackpool 3/2/07
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A-B-A
Not posted for a while as my previous was removed.
Whilst a lot of finger pointing and hatered may be seen one small point has been well over looked
A-B flight was not repeat not mandated that day,indeed the Aztec aircraft remained unused / wanted until 3 months after it returned.
No body any where pressured thoes two aviators to return to Blackpool that night, this was and is their decision and took them to their maker
I am sick and tired of all the finger pointing, Walker senior has a grudge against the owner of the RF, due to his son's untimely departure from this life. Walker senior get a life (what's left of it) your barking up the wrong tree. The coroner will only determine what, when, how your son left this world, anything more will have to be followed up by a civil prosecution, to which the owner of the aircraft has already won on 2 occasions.
I feel sorry for The guy who offered his aircraft to do two people favours, look what shi- this has caused.
Incidently I wonder if the fingers were/ would be pointed if this aircraft had departed from one of the other famous RF at Blackpool
Whilst a lot of finger pointing and hatered may be seen one small point has been well over looked
A-B flight was not repeat not mandated that day,indeed the Aztec aircraft remained unused / wanted until 3 months after it returned.
No body any where pressured thoes two aviators to return to Blackpool that night, this was and is their decision and took them to their maker
I am sick and tired of all the finger pointing, Walker senior has a grudge against the owner of the RF, due to his son's untimely departure from this life. Walker senior get a life (what's left of it) your barking up the wrong tree. The coroner will only determine what, when, how your son left this world, anything more will have to be followed up by a civil prosecution, to which the owner of the aircraft has already won on 2 occasions.
I feel sorry for The guy who offered his aircraft to do two people favours, look what shi- this has caused.
Incidently I wonder if the fingers were/ would be pointed if this aircraft had departed from one of the other famous RF at Blackpool
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Azrec, I think you are off-side with that last post. Most of us have a genuine interest in the dynamic of this accident. On the one hand, you have those who keep to the facts and the legalities, on the other you have those that are trying to ascertain why/how a pilot could get himself in such a mess. You then reappear and make personal attacks and accuse posters of taking sides because of the personalities involved. Essentially, you have stoked the fire.
Back to the day in question - loads of daft decisions and many unanswered questions. Maybe we should draw a line under this thread and just use this accident as an example of how poor airmanship (from all parties involved) can get someone killed.
Back to the day in question - loads of daft decisions and many unanswered questions. Maybe we should draw a line under this thread and just use this accident as an example of how poor airmanship (from all parties involved) can get someone killed.
One of the above has.
Passenger response - "Take me back to Exeter you idiot".
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May be its thread drift, I’m not sure what David Walkers original objective was.
I use Pprune for information, education and entertainment, (sounds a bit like the BBC ).
I think Bose X made the point about the responsibilities of PIC very clear…and very repeatedly..I don’t think any contributors disagree.
I think everyone also agrees that the decision to depart on return flight was a very bad one, and not to divert much earlier was a fatal one.
As to weather it was illegal or not, seems to me a bit spurious, it was simply bad airmanship. When driving a car some activities are illegal but not dangerous or stupid. And some activities are stupid / reckless but not illegal. The point I make is that just because it may or may not be legal to do something does not make it a good idea.
For me the real story is who was the PIC, for which no one can provide the answer.
But more importantly is the lessons that can be learnt from the circumstances that lead to the first flight ever departing and the implications for the return flight.This forum is not a court of law and should not be some sort of witch hunt but non prejudicial discussion will help many to learn some valuable lessons, even if the scenarios suggested are not necessarily what happened in this case. As probably none of us actual know.
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Walker senior get a life (what's left of it) your barking up the wrong tree.
As to weather it was illegal or not, seems to me a bit spurious, it was simply bad airmanship.
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How unpleasant
Aztec Driver,
What a nasty unpleasant person you are, to have made such a comment to a grieving Father beggars belief. You should hang your head in shame you nasty piece of work. You are beneath contempt.
What a nasty unpleasant person you are, to have made such a comment to a grieving Father beggars belief. You should hang your head in shame you nasty piece of work. You are beneath contempt.
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Some pretty harsh remarks indeed Aztec Driver.
Although, good to hear from someone who is obviously deeply involved in this case. It does give people not based in Blackpool an insight into how the various different 'sides' feel about exactly what happened. It is obviously still pretty raw there. Although some of your words are terribly harsh, I can see where you are coming from Aztec Driver.
Although, good to hear from someone who is obviously deeply involved in this case. It does give people not based in Blackpool an insight into how the various different 'sides' feel about exactly what happened. It is obviously still pretty raw there. Although some of your words are terribly harsh, I can see where you are coming from Aztec Driver.
Last edited by Supersport; 6th May 2008 at 19:10.
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Aztec driver
I agree with Supersport.
Aztec Driver should no be banned, it s obvious he too suffers and is on the "other side" of the fence although apart from the suggestion within his Alias, I do not know his exact position. Was he one of the two Aztec pilots left behind on the outbound journey?
Aztec Driver, we re all waiting for you to give your side of the story here, preferably without hurting people just like i try not to hurt people.
The reason is simple, none of us are helped by single sided stories and it just might be that all of us can learn just that little bit more by hearing your factual recount of the events that day.
From Holland
Aztec Driver should no be banned, it s obvious he too suffers and is on the "other side" of the fence although apart from the suggestion within his Alias, I do not know his exact position. Was he one of the two Aztec pilots left behind on the outbound journey?
Aztec Driver, we re all waiting for you to give your side of the story here, preferably without hurting people just like i try not to hurt people.
The reason is simple, none of us are helped by single sided stories and it just might be that all of us can learn just that little bit more by hearing your factual recount of the events that day.
From Holland
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Blackpool
I echo Foxtrot Oscars comments, we all know who you are Aztec Driver. You are none other than RM himself, the very man who the controvosy of the dispatch of this flight centres around. You are beneath contempt indeed! To come on here and post as if you are a third party when we all know who you really are. To think you even invoiced the father of the deceased and tried to sue for the value of the aeroplane is again a good demonstrator that you have no conscience. How the CAA allow such a spineless coward to yet again open another shambles of a flying school is beyond belief!! (FlyBPL dot con)
Last edited by Chieftan Driver; 29th May 2008 at 22:52.
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The coroner will only determine what, when, how your son left this world
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Clearly the words of someone with no idea at all about the extremely wide remit and powers of HM Coroners.
I am regularly an expert witness for the coroner in another field so have an understanding of what they can and can't do.
The coroners role is merely to establish the cause of death and if they can't they leave an open verdict.
Morality aside it is plain to see the cause of death. I would estimate by misadventure.
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Bose, you are quite correct that a Coroner is not concerned with prosecutions following death. I did not suggest that he was.
The powers to which I referred are powers to investigate and examine. HM Coroner's powers here are almost unlimited. It is in this respect that, should the Coroner in this case wish, he will hear evidence which uncovers all the facts behind the flight. He will, of course, then either give a verdict or direct his jury to a verdict. In this case, I believe a narrative verdict is the most likely outcome (though I recognise that some Coroners choose to avoid narrative verdicts for their own reasons).
Some Coroners are much more willing to explore fundamentals than others (Oxfordshire springs to mind).
(My words on this specific matter are informed by involvement with Coroners at a level somewhat above your experience as an expert witness).
The powers to which I referred are powers to investigate and examine. HM Coroner's powers here are almost unlimited. It is in this respect that, should the Coroner in this case wish, he will hear evidence which uncovers all the facts behind the flight. He will, of course, then either give a verdict or direct his jury to a verdict. In this case, I believe a narrative verdict is the most likely outcome (though I recognise that some Coroners choose to avoid narrative verdicts for their own reasons).
Some Coroners are much more willing to explore fundamentals than others (Oxfordshire springs to mind).
(My words on this specific matter are informed by involvement with Coroners at a level somewhat above your experience as an expert witness).
Last edited by frontlefthamster; 30th May 2008 at 20:08.
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tomorrow
To all tomorrow, i wish you good luck.
I hope the Coroner will establish what were the known facts (over and above the AIB) and will prove to be a wise man, helping the family to find closure and helping the flying community to become clearer about responsibilities and authorities of PIC.
I hope the Coroner will establish what were the known facts (over and above the AIB) and will prove to be a wise man, helping the family to find closure and helping the flying community to become clearer about responsibilities and authorities of PIC.
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Proceedings so far
Hi Guys / n gals
I was there today listening to this epic
david Walker Father of the lad that was on board, nearly had himself ejecteed from the proceedings as predicted for contempt of court
Summing up Wed expected accidental death as thought nothing more nothing less
I was there today listening to this epic
david Walker Father of the lad that was on board, nearly had himself ejecteed from the proceedings as predicted for contempt of court
Summing up Wed expected accidental death as thought nothing more nothing less
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David Walker Father of the lad that was on board, nearly had himself ejecteed from the proceedings as predicted for contempt of court
Here we go again!!!