PPL Ground Exams
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Doesn't that mean mandatory ground school in the PPL?
Yes, 100 hours of it (although some may be 'distance learning').
Doesn't that mean mandatory ground school in the PPL?
Yes, 100 hours of it (although some may be 'distance learning').
Even if a FTO had to approve an exam sitting for a PPL student, couldnt they just authorise this based on the fact the student said he had read the book / done the confuser / other test preps and said they are ready? 100 hours at e.g. £25 p/hour instructor rate would add £2500 onto the cost of a PPL.
From the snippets of information in this discussion, I couldnt see how any hours of ground school were required.
Last edited by piperarcher; 3rd Aug 2012 at 14:44.
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It only says
"Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction to a satisfactory standard."
That appears to give the ATO authority to say when the student is ready to take an exam. I suppose that might mean after they provide x hours of groundschool but it might also mean as soon as they think the stude is ready on the basis of his/her own study plus whatever pearls of wisdom their instructor imparts during training. I rather think most schools do the latter? Mine certainly did in 2003-5, unless things have changed.
"Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction to a satisfactory standard."
That appears to give the ATO authority to say when the student is ready to take an exam. I suppose that might mean after they provide x hours of groundschool but it might also mean as soon as they think the stude is ready on the basis of his/her own study plus whatever pearls of wisdom their instructor imparts during training. I rather think most schools do the latter? Mine certainly did in 2003-5, unless things have changed.
The authorities appear to have based this idea on the current requirements for ATPL ground school study. If I recall correctly the legal minimum for ATPL is 650 hours of which 10% must be done in the classroom. This typically leads to two weeks of classroom study being applied to distance learning courses.
To ensure that the candidates are ready for the exams they are required to take practice exams during the two weeks of classroom work. In some schools this takes up virtually all of the classroom study time, so there really isn't any significant face-to-face tuition.
If the same approach were to be applied to the PPL ground school, only 10 hours would be done in the classroom. With 7 subjects this would be completely consumed in taking practice exams.
It is of course entirely possible (I suspect probable?) that a more stringent approach will be applied to the PPL students.
To ensure that the candidates are ready for the exams they are required to take practice exams during the two weeks of classroom work. In some schools this takes up virtually all of the classroom study time, so there really isn't any significant face-to-face tuition.
If the same approach were to be applied to the PPL ground school, only 10 hours would be done in the classroom. With 7 subjects this would be completely consumed in taking practice exams.
It is of course entirely possible (I suspect probable?) that a more stringent approach will be applied to the PPL students.
BillieBob dropped this same little bombshell in a thread in July.
As it turns out, the AMC is rather vague:
so it all depends on how the CAA interpret it. I personally don't believe that the CAA will want to audit every hour that a PPL applicant says he spent reading the books or doing an online quiz, particularly not when the LAPL (A) & (H) use the same syllabus, the same exams but have no minimum study hours.
As it turns out, the AMC is rather vague:
This theoretical knowledge instruction provided by the ATO should include a certain element of formal classroom work but may include also such facilities as interactive video, slide or tape presentation, computer-based training and other media distance learning courses.
However, it will mean that someone will have to sign to the effect that the student has demonstrated that he/she is ready to take the exams....
Which means that an applicant wanting to turn up at a training organisation just to take the exams before buggering off to some Floridian PPL puppy farm will find things rather more protracted and expensive under EASA.
Shame, eh?
Which means that an applicant wanting to turn up at a training organisation just to take the exams before buggering off to some Floridian PPL puppy farm will find things rather more protracted and expensive under EASA.
Shame, eh?
I personally don't believe that the CAA will want to audit every hour that a PPL applicant says he spent reading the books or doing an online quiz
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Which means that an applicant wanting to turn up at a training organisation just to take the exams before buggering off to some Floridian PPL puppy farm will find things rather more protracted and expensive under EASA.
But honestly, "getting the exams out of the way" isn't all that important before you go to Florida. After all, the exams take about an hour each, so you can have them all done in a single day. Or spread over a few days, in the breaks in between the flights. Or wait for the inevitable rainy day. Even on a three week intensive course there is enough downtime to sit all seven exams.
What is paramount before going to Florida, is to have learned all the theory and prepared yourself for the exams thoroughly (e.g. with the confuser). You should be 100% ready to take the exams immediately upon arrival. And that doesn't change with the new regulations.
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Which means that an applicant wanting to turn up at a training organisation just to take the exams before buggering off to some Floridian PPL puppy farm will find things rather more protracted and expensive under EASA.
Shame, eh?
Shame, eh?
Come on Nick - you should know better.
My US PPL training was a lot tougher than UK PPL training, and same goes for the IR.
After all, the exams take about an hour each, so you can have them all done in a single day. Or spread over a few days, in the breaks in between the flights. Or wait for the inevitable rainy day. Even on a three week intensive course there is enough downtime to sit all seven exams.
It is quite clear that this new 100 hour study requirement has been generated by a group of "enthusiasts" who have failed to consider how it will compare with the ATPL requirements.
The eventual outcome will be one of the following:
1. The "enthusiasts" will win the day and PPL students will be required to do more classroom time than the ATPL students.
Or
2. It wil be treated in the same manner as the ATPL requirements and the classroom time will involve little more than doing a practice exam before taking each real exam.
Neither of these outcomes will do much to imporove the quality of PPL holders, but both will provide an excellent opportunity for the schools to squeeze more cash out of their cash cows.....er customers.
I think if I were starting out now, and if I were unfortunate enough to have been born in Europe, I don't actually think I'd bother with aviation now, it's just not worth it anymore. Easa has screwed the pooch. If I werent so deeply involved and financially commited I'd walk away and do something else. More fun can be had flying model aircraft. Europe is politically a toilet.
The only 'bias' I might have is that I strongly believe that PPl exams should be phased during the flight training course, so that they are relevant to the stage of training.
In more enlightened times, the CAA recommended which exams should be taken and in which sequence. The 'want it now, don't care how' brigade didn't just turn up to do their exams, then find somewhere cheaper to do their flying.... Whether that's in USA, Spain or Godknowswheristan is immaterial.
We used to charge nothing for PPL exams for our own students, until people joined wanting to do nothing except sit the exams before going to Florida. I don't know what the policy at that club is these days, but I would recommend that PPL exams should be free for the first attempt, but £15 for a second and that no third attempt would be permitted until the applicant had attended a specialist training provider. That would apply to the club's own students; anyone joining just to take the exams without wishing to learn to fly would be charged the same rate as the CAA now charge for 'any other ground exam'...
In more enlightened times, the CAA recommended which exams should be taken and in which sequence. The 'want it now, don't care how' brigade didn't just turn up to do their exams, then find somewhere cheaper to do their flying.... Whether that's in USA, Spain or Godknowswheristan is immaterial.
We used to charge nothing for PPL exams for our own students, until people joined wanting to do nothing except sit the exams before going to Florida. I don't know what the policy at that club is these days, but I would recommend that PPL exams should be free for the first attempt, but £15 for a second and that no third attempt would be permitted until the applicant had attended a specialist training provider. That would apply to the club's own students; anyone joining just to take the exams without wishing to learn to fly would be charged the same rate as the CAA now charge for 'any other ground exam'...
Just as well you weren't born here then youngskywalker.
Yes we have annoying regulations to deal with, yes studying is hard work, yes EASA is populated by idiots, but flying here is just as fun as it's ever been once you've got air under the tyres.
G
Yes we have annoying regulations to deal with, yes studying is hard work, yes EASA is populated by idiots, but flying here is just as fun as it's ever been once you've got air under the tyres.
G
Ah, I didn't word it very well. I was born here, Scotland. 20 years in flying now and it's been the greatest passion of my life, from gliding with the VGS to flying twin turbo-props over Europe, but I'm growing increasingly tired of the bs from europe. People can only take so much before they call enough is enough. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting close. 
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We used to charge nothing for PPL exams for our own students,
Each exam is 95 euros (141 euros for CPL and up), you can only sit them in three locations in the Netherlands (assuming enough candidates per location - if not they may choose to send you to another), only at specific dates (five times a year), and before you apply you need to have a statement signed by a recognized and appropriate training facility that you are enrolled in the appropriate course with them.
Just getting that last statement signed and getting the approval back may take three weeks. And only once you have the approval can you register for an exam.
Ah, I didn't word it very well. I was born here, Scotland. 20 years in flying now and it's been the greatest passion of my life, from gliding with the VGS to flying twin turbo-props over Europe, but I'm growing increasingly tired of the bs from europe. People can only take so much before they call enough is enough. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting close.
It works for me.
G
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I strongly believe that PPl exams should be phased during the flight training course, so that they are relevant to the stage of training.
Admittedly most "solid" training is done in the USA, but there is no reason it can't be done here.
I have a plane-crazy 16 year old son. I was happy to fund his PPL at whatever flying rate he could physically manage - 1 flight a day or whatever. But not if he had a break of a few months, because that wastes most of your training and jacks up the costs, and is why the average UK PPL takes a year or more. He had 4 lessons and was getting on great, but showed no interest in the exams, so I pulled the plug on it. I've told him I want to see all exams passed and then he can restart next summer.
YSW is right about Europe, but if one sets things up just right, flying remains a whole load of fun (after you get off the ground
). I wouldn't stop flying for anything. The trouble is that it is easy to end up with more hassle (on the ground) than the airborne returns one gets, and people just chuck it in. There is huge potential for ground hassle with today's airport management practices.
