Vacancy for tug pilot - unpaid.
Speaking as a glider pilot I'm glad we won't be seeing Niknacpaddywhack at my club any time soon.
The best tuggies are the ones who know and understand gliding and they do it because they love it. A good tuggie will know where to find lift, either thermal or wave. The bad ones havn't a clue and they don't last long, whether paid or not.
The best tuggies are the ones who know and understand gliding and they do it because they love it. A good tuggie will know where to find lift, either thermal or wave. The bad ones havn't a clue and they don't last long, whether paid or not.
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niknak (& others)
There's a clue into how gliding CLUBs operate. See if you can spot it in their name....
Booker Gliding CLUB
Lasham Gliding SOCIETY
Southdown Gliding CLUB
Kent Gliding CLUB
Derbyshire & Lancashire Gliding CLUB
Shalbourne Soaring SOCIETY
See, most of them are clubs and societies which are run for the benefit of the members and the sport a whole. They're NOT run as a commercial operation whose primary aim is to make profits for its shareholders. That said, they are run with a commercial element in that they don't want to run at a loss either.
To quote Niknak "as has been readily admitted, many gliding clubs make a good living"
Maybe they make a (small) profit but that isn't their primary objective - unlike airlines and commercial flying training organisations whose objective IS to make money.
If you want to go down the route of "hey they make a profit so they should pay the tuggies" (aside from the legal issue that PPL's can't fly for hire/reward) then why don't you start question why airlines expect pilots to pay for their own training in the first place ? After all, some airlines make heaps of money, so they can afford it can't they?
A fundemental point (which I'm sure I've pointed out in a previous, long lost, posting) is this: IT IS NOT MANDATORY FOR ALL PILOTS TO FLY A TUG FOR FREE. So, if you don't want to that's your choice, not a problem. Glider pilots don't sneak around the back of flying clubs coshing PPL's over the head and drag then screaming into the tugs. Equally, if you do like the idea of using the opportunity for learning more about a different aspect of aviation, taking part in a CLUB operation, enjoy the social side, and want to build some hours at no cost....then tugging could be for you.
There's a clue into how gliding CLUBs operate. See if you can spot it in their name....
Booker Gliding CLUB
Lasham Gliding SOCIETY
Southdown Gliding CLUB
Kent Gliding CLUB
Derbyshire & Lancashire Gliding CLUB
Shalbourne Soaring SOCIETY
See, most of them are clubs and societies which are run for the benefit of the members and the sport a whole. They're NOT run as a commercial operation whose primary aim is to make profits for its shareholders. That said, they are run with a commercial element in that they don't want to run at a loss either.
To quote Niknak "as has been readily admitted, many gliding clubs make a good living"
Maybe they make a (small) profit but that isn't their primary objective - unlike airlines and commercial flying training organisations whose objective IS to make money.
If you want to go down the route of "hey they make a profit so they should pay the tuggies" (aside from the legal issue that PPL's can't fly for hire/reward) then why don't you start question why airlines expect pilots to pay for their own training in the first place ? After all, some airlines make heaps of money, so they can afford it can't they?
A fundemental point (which I'm sure I've pointed out in a previous, long lost, posting) is this: IT IS NOT MANDATORY FOR ALL PILOTS TO FLY A TUG FOR FREE. So, if you don't want to that's your choice, not a problem. Glider pilots don't sneak around the back of flying clubs coshing PPL's over the head and drag then screaming into the tugs. Equally, if you do like the idea of using the opportunity for learning more about a different aspect of aviation, taking part in a CLUB operation, enjoy the social side, and want to build some hours at no cost....then tugging could be for you.
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This whole business of unpaid work demands further investigation.
Flying aside, the same trend is happening in broadcasting.
This is another glamour area where people work free of charge.
Gliding clubs have to have insurance and most if not all insurance companies will not agree to what is happening.
Tug pilots are getting a 'material advantage'.
Free hours = money.
The tax authorities are wise to this loophole.
Flying aside, the same trend is happening in broadcasting.
This is another glamour area where people work free of charge.
Gliding clubs have to have insurance and most if not all insurance companies will not agree to what is happening.
Tug pilots are getting a 'material advantage'.
Free hours = money.
The tax authorities are wise to this loophole.
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Sedburgh has got it spot on
As Sedburgh and many other people have written, the essence of most gliding clubs is that they are members clubs and the membership help each other out.
I tugged at the Norfolk Gliding Club for many years as a club member. I was not hour building and did not need to do the flying but did so (as a PPL holder) in order to help out my fellow members. Other members did the same when I was on the back of a tow in a glider. You will find plenty of people helping out at a gliding club whether its manning the launch control, driving the retrieve, holding a wing tip, attaching the cable, giving the up slack and all out etc. No one would suggest that these people should be paid/want to be paid or are getting some sort of taxable benefit in kind. Many clubs don't have the luxury of an aerotow and I can remember spending many cold and lonely hours manning the winch at the West Wales GC in the mid 70's. Should I have expected to get paid for that?
As Sedburgh and many other people have written, the essence of most gliding clubs is that they are members clubs and the membership help each other out.
I tugged at the Norfolk Gliding Club for many years as a club member. I was not hour building and did not need to do the flying but did so (as a PPL holder) in order to help out my fellow members. Other members did the same when I was on the back of a tow in a glider. You will find plenty of people helping out at a gliding club whether its manning the launch control, driving the retrieve, holding a wing tip, attaching the cable, giving the up slack and all out etc. No one would suggest that these people should be paid/want to be paid or are getting some sort of taxable benefit in kind. Many clubs don't have the luxury of an aerotow and I can remember spending many cold and lonely hours manning the winch at the West Wales GC in the mid 70's. Should I have expected to get paid for that?
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I have to say Tibenham is all that a gliding club could ever be and more.
No question a number one club.
However there are some more commercially minded clubs in the UK exploiting
cheap/free tug pilots.
No question a number one club.
However there are some more commercially minded clubs in the UK exploiting
cheap/free tug pilots.
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stercus:
Really, then why is 172 driver advertising for a tug pilot?, why not just call any one of the willing volunteers.
Really, then why is 172 driver advertising for a tug pilot?, why not just call any one of the willing volunteers.
Budding pro pilots that are skint, don't have much better opportunity for hour building.
Also, if you're pilot, you probably LIKE flying. Of which gliding is the purest form in my view. Could be compared to hang gliding (more flexible, yet good gliding ratio) or PG (transportable in bag, usually not paying for taking off except fees for private take off sites and travel to get there).
Anyway, if you don't like gliding, then you probably are true jet jockey. I won't go further.
This and few other threads where MIKECR and the likes contributed to, gave me some hopes of fun flying in the UK without burning wads of money when being already skint from rotary training in the US. If I have time off Uni or take 'career break' and possibly get hired into tugging job in few years' time.
Technically, even if it's not Bideford with caretaker salary, they still get some benefits ie housing.
Well, if you don't have any gliding experience and should have, need BGA tug pilot standard training, you have to pay something. But the rewards far exceed the cost for some. Not everyone and for them it's just something they don't even have to think about..
Back to topic of your post:
Why do companies advertise for posts? Why don't they just grab friend of employees that has such degree, or such declared knowledge and employ him? It's because they want to get the best suitable candidate.
'Queuing' aside, if they have bunch of members that could do some tugging, but they want to do XC on a great day, or they cannot commit to such hard labour, or they have fresh PPL but not someone with more hours...
Would you go for it for free, with family back home, full time job you can't just give up to pay mortgage and family living costs? Bearing in mind all the 'hassle of working most of the week and living away from home in some passable place' should you be from far away?
Just because you're PPL and gliding club member 'willing' to help?
I also don't know of the percentage of glider pilots actually having necessary PPL and hours to be able to tug..
I stand by the gliding background posters. It's WIN-WIN situation and if it wasn't, it wouldn't exist.
Maybe you should go and criticise 'hangar ratting' of fresh rotary (100hrish) CPLs in Australia where instructing rating requires much more TT and nobody is usually hiring such low time helicopter pilots. That's exploiting. It's been mentioned many times in 'rotorheads' section I mostly frequent.
Btw, I adored one Californian gliding club website month ago, before I came across these threads.
One club has 300 USD annual membership, 50 or 80 national assn membership and monthly 'flying dues' of about 50 bucks when flying. That's say, 600 USD for flying of your pants off no extra rentals etc for the season (well, European standards, longer in reality over there) AND FREE TRAINING WITH VOLUNTEER INSTRUCTORS. If it wasn't for lots of 'free' labour of club members, I very doubt it would have such low cost. Sure, they don't run every day of the week with one glider per member, but still reasonable cost.
Yeah, you read it correctly. They volunteer every few weeks to train new fellow members on top of their flying jobs or whatever career. Who knows why? Why do some gliding clubs charge for instructor's time? Why do we get charged for dual airplane or helo training? Hmmm.
I only flew paragliding (slaving in crap jobs to afford the kit as teenager) but if I could afford gliding back home when much younger, I would. No car, no money, not much time besides school.
Shame I am not in California already with green card or some immigrant visa.
Since I asked glider plane and airplane to be added to my insurance policy, I hope I'll do some gliding this summer. Even if couple rides in NW US.
I am also nicely surprised at the amount of gliding clubs throughout the UK. Never checked it before. Looking good.
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Hey Guys,
That would be fine to refresh this thread and hear about tug pilots life nowadays.
Is anybody around here who got a tug pilot job for the coming season in UK?
That would be fine to refresh this thread and hear about tug pilots life nowadays.
Is anybody around here who got a tug pilot job for the coming season in UK?
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Waldo,
I chatted with one guy from Central Europe with tugging experience and he was offered a tuggie 'job' at Booker, maybe at Bidford as well. Thing is, he couldn't have started beginning of April at that time.
Gliding season in the UK starts around April, if you look at gliding clubs' websites, you'd see the membership runs from March or April for obvious reasons.
Having said that, you could possibly get in touch and 'fill in' should someone drop out mid-season. Also, in Aboyne/Deeside, they do FT tuggie in autumn for wave season, ie the summer guys may not stay and fly for them autumn/winterish time.
Oh, I see my long-winded post. Hmm. After summer in the US I was writing about (and no, didn't get to visit Wilamette Valey Soaring Club), I started with gliding eventually. Enjoying 'work free' weekends now, doing some winch launch 'conversion'. Touch easier for stronger winds than aerotows - at least for someone in glider.
Anyway, should someone want 700 tow experienced guy [EDIT: read as NOT post offer, but guy who searches for one] as tuggie this summer, let me know and I'll direct you to that guy's email.
Off to do some great tailwheel flying myself soon :-D
I chatted with one guy from Central Europe with tugging experience and he was offered a tuggie 'job' at Booker, maybe at Bidford as well. Thing is, he couldn't have started beginning of April at that time.
Gliding season in the UK starts around April, if you look at gliding clubs' websites, you'd see the membership runs from March or April for obvious reasons.
Having said that, you could possibly get in touch and 'fill in' should someone drop out mid-season. Also, in Aboyne/Deeside, they do FT tuggie in autumn for wave season, ie the summer guys may not stay and fly for them autumn/winterish time.
Oh, I see my long-winded post. Hmm. After summer in the US I was writing about (and no, didn't get to visit Wilamette Valey Soaring Club), I started with gliding eventually. Enjoying 'work free' weekends now, doing some winch launch 'conversion'. Touch easier for stronger winds than aerotows - at least for someone in glider.
Anyway, should someone want 700 tow experienced guy [EDIT: read as NOT post offer, but guy who searches for one] as tuggie this summer, let me know and I'll direct you to that guy's email.
Off to do some great tailwheel flying myself soon :-D
Last edited by MartinCh; 4th Jun 2010 at 11:02.
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That would be fantastic to be tuggie in AUS for sure. Do you know anything about the requirements in Aus? Given that you take tugpilot job in UK with valid PPL and some 100 hours it would be goo to know what the AUS gliding clubs expectation. Icao or JAA licence is accepted?
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On the gliding side we prefer some experience, preferably solo. The job would appeal to solo cross-country Pilots who may fly on weekends.
On the Licence side, I think contacting our CASA would be the go, not sure what JAA needs to do to to validate, including tow Pilot endorsement.
Plenty of Poms at Keepit so contact them direct!
On the Licence side, I think contacting our CASA would be the go, not sure what JAA needs to do to to validate, including tow Pilot endorsement.
Plenty of Poms at Keepit so contact them direct!
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I sent my CV to Lake Keepit manager, since I couldnt find any other email address, so I hope somebody will get it.
My experience is 850aerotows, 290TT, 200PIC, 140hrs on taildraggers and 200hrs on gliders. JAA CPL(A)/MEP/IR
Hopefully they will be interested.
Viva Australia
My experience is 850aerotows, 290TT, 200PIC, 140hrs on taildraggers and 200hrs on gliders. JAA CPL(A)/MEP/IR
Hopefully they will be interested.
Viva Australia
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just to add my 2 pence in, currently 5000hr + capt with large uk airline but began gliding. I`m silver C with 2 gold legs. gained ppl from silver c conversion and became tuggie as poor 17yr old wanna be airline pilot.
great fun, but very hard work.
hours great on paper but useless for future airline credit. Gained hundreds of hours and caa gave me 5 hour credit for them doing an approved cpl course.
(fine for the self improver route but airlines like 509 students (or what ever it is called now))
Gliding experience is definitely required. Best tuggie`s find lift all the way up, dropping the glider in the best lift upwind or being considerate of his planned task. Is able to use lift to get the combination up quickly using less fuel and then (after a very careful engine cooldown regime) get back to the launch point while negotiating the gaggles.
gliding clubs are fantastic places, everyone pulls together, great atmosphere and always a bbq, beer, pub meal on the way back from a retrieve.
learning curve is steep, keep the release close to hand as it goes wrong very quick. From a glider ground looping behind you or going too high and pinning you on the deck all require giving them both ends of the rope!. As a resident tuggie you may be allowed to do aerotow retrieves. These are limited to mostly airfields now days but you may have to do a field retrieve. A sound knowledge of field landings and aircraft performance is needed. Its also a hard thing to arrive, decide its not suitable then give them a big bill. (you always ask them to walk it, check for cables etc, then find its 300m shorter with HT cables on the approach
!!!)
doing 6 tows an hour with a k13 boxing the wake becomes very tiresome!
You will be able to platt a rope in about 30secs
You will get to fly some fantastic aircraft. (and clean, oil, fuel, help fix, clean windows etc)
You will love every minute of it!
You will be everyone's best friend if you put them 6kts+
You won`t make money from it as people love doing it and it is free flying!
great fun, but very hard work.
hours great on paper but useless for future airline credit. Gained hundreds of hours and caa gave me 5 hour credit for them doing an approved cpl course.
(fine for the self improver route but airlines like 509 students (or what ever it is called now))
Gliding experience is definitely required. Best tuggie`s find lift all the way up, dropping the glider in the best lift upwind or being considerate of his planned task. Is able to use lift to get the combination up quickly using less fuel and then (after a very careful engine cooldown regime) get back to the launch point while negotiating the gaggles.
gliding clubs are fantastic places, everyone pulls together, great atmosphere and always a bbq, beer, pub meal on the way back from a retrieve.
learning curve is steep, keep the release close to hand as it goes wrong very quick. From a glider ground looping behind you or going too high and pinning you on the deck all require giving them both ends of the rope!. As a resident tuggie you may be allowed to do aerotow retrieves. These are limited to mostly airfields now days but you may have to do a field retrieve. A sound knowledge of field landings and aircraft performance is needed. Its also a hard thing to arrive, decide its not suitable then give them a big bill. (you always ask them to walk it, check for cables etc, then find its 300m shorter with HT cables on the approach
!!!)doing 6 tows an hour with a k13 boxing the wake becomes very tiresome!
You will be able to platt a rope in about 30secs
You will get to fly some fantastic aircraft. (and clean, oil, fuel, help fix, clean windows etc)
You will love every minute of it!
You will be everyone's best friend if you put them 6kts+
You won`t make money from it as people love doing it and it is free flying!
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Reading this thread for the first time!
When I started flying at Booker Gliding Club in 1983, the Tug Pilot was the most highly respected and necessary person on site! No airtow, no glider flight! As I slowly climbed the tree of proficiency, first solo, first cross country, silver badge, PPL with concessions for gliding, i yearned for that respect, got my tail dragger conversion at Clacton on Sea, and began flying the l80 Super Cub, first with an instructor perched on cushions behind me so he could see what I was doing, then alone. Then with Dave Watt (now CFI at Windrushers) who was Booker Tugmaster at the time, in addition to flying for BA.
Do a landing, said Dave. So I did. Now do a half flap landing. So I did.
Now do a no flap landing, so I did, and at the end of the roll, just like a glider, the Cub put one wing on the ground! The undercarriage had fractured. "That wasn't your fault, Mary" he said, kindly.
Club manager said "Why couldn't you have crashed it properly so we could have claimed on the insurance!?"
Anyway, I did end up doing some tugging at Booker, and now am tugmaster at a small gliding club, nearly all volunteer labour here! (love the prestige of that title, LOVE tugging gliders and doing lots of takeoffs, knowing the glider pilot will be pleased if I find him a good thermal which I know how to do because I am a glider pilot with 1,800 hours in gliders, and 1,400 in power,mostly tugging. Alas, too old to qualify for a paid flying job. How can ANYBODY think you needed to be paid to have the most fun doing the most important job on an airfield?
When I started flying at Booker Gliding Club in 1983, the Tug Pilot was the most highly respected and necessary person on site! No airtow, no glider flight! As I slowly climbed the tree of proficiency, first solo, first cross country, silver badge, PPL with concessions for gliding, i yearned for that respect, got my tail dragger conversion at Clacton on Sea, and began flying the l80 Super Cub, first with an instructor perched on cushions behind me so he could see what I was doing, then alone. Then with Dave Watt (now CFI at Windrushers) who was Booker Tugmaster at the time, in addition to flying for BA.
Do a landing, said Dave. So I did. Now do a half flap landing. So I did.
Now do a no flap landing, so I did, and at the end of the roll, just like a glider, the Cub put one wing on the ground! The undercarriage had fractured. "That wasn't your fault, Mary" he said, kindly.
Club manager said "Why couldn't you have crashed it properly so we could have claimed on the insurance!?"
Anyway, I did end up doing some tugging at Booker, and now am tugmaster at a small gliding club, nearly all volunteer labour here! (love the prestige of that title, LOVE tugging gliders and doing lots of takeoffs, knowing the glider pilot will be pleased if I find him a good thermal which I know how to do because I am a glider pilot with 1,800 hours in gliders, and 1,400 in power,mostly tugging. Alas, too old to qualify for a paid flying job. How can ANYBODY think you needed to be paid to have the most fun doing the most important job on an airfield?
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Very nicely summed up, Mary.
Just that some may find doing full-time tuggie duty too much of strain, without other income for 'running costs' of life. Definitely shouldn't be expected for weekend flying or occasional rota flying.
Just did three solo winches in K13, finally. Been working hard on 'conversion' from aerotow solos, past month on weekend. Depending on my power flying over summer, may do tuggie training later on as well. Club where I fly, not likely as tuggie in Pawnee, don't chance or fancy it for now... It's good to have Super Cub for tuggie dual training towing single seaters. I'd say letting someone loose on Pawnee requires more experience than minimum UK 'standards'.
Just that some may find doing full-time tuggie duty too much of strain, without other income for 'running costs' of life. Definitely shouldn't be expected for weekend flying or occasional rota flying.
Just did three solo winches in K13, finally. Been working hard on 'conversion' from aerotow solos, past month on weekend. Depending on my power flying over summer, may do tuggie training later on as well. Club where I fly, not likely as tuggie in Pawnee, don't chance or fancy it for now... It's good to have Super Cub for tuggie dual training towing single seaters. I'd say letting someone loose on Pawnee requires more experience than minimum UK 'standards'.
Originally Posted by MartinCh
I'd say letting someone loose on Pawnee requires more experience than minimum UK 'standards'.
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the pilot has to solo the airplane the first time he or she flies it, since it only has one seat.
Check out http://www.wvsc.org - I wanted to get couple flights with them when I was very near, but didn't get to, in the end. Maybe next time - it'd be better, with some Blanik experience. That PA-25D caught my eye and stayed in memory.
Wow, now there is a new benchmark for ugly!
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