Vacancy for tug pilot - unpaid.
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No it demonstrates that you know how to have a p*** while flying a glider!
If you're doing a 500 km cross country in a glider you'll probably be up there 8 hours or more (unless you are really good!)
If you're doing a 500 km cross country in a glider you'll probably be up there 8 hours or more (unless you are really good!)
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Ah, now that's not good for an old man. But my bladder could cope with flying the ten-minute aerotows 
Thanks for the guidance, Sedbergh, I'll speak to '172' driver again.
Thanks for the guidance, Sedbergh, I'll speak to '172' driver again.
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A full silver C isnt really necessary. A bronze perhaps or even just solo gliding experience should be enough knowledge to know your way around as a tuggie. We have both types(PPL's with gliding experience and those without) at our club and to be honest the guys without experience dont have a clue where theyre going. We're a small club though and its not a huge problem, you just have to constantly steer them a course on the radio and tell them where to drop you. The guys with experience just blast off and know exactly where to position you. They know about wave, they know how thermals work etc
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Mmmmmm, before you all get too excited, I suggest you go onto Lasham's website and check out the "Tug Pilot's Notes" (or something like that) and work out how much the training and also the necessary time on type will cost you.
YOU have to pay for all the training and flight time before you get to be an approved tuggie. Balance that with the hours you will get which is largely flying round in circles, if that's your thing then great, it's for you (it doesn't sound like fun tome). I did some gliding there last year and they tried to get me interested when they knew I was a PPL, I made my excuses as it looked like a very one-sided deal and I didn't consider doing circuits all day as the flying I wanted to do (that and I'm a PPL not a CPL wannabe so aren't too bothered about hours building) and the notes revealed how much it would cost me.
Also, I suggest you go to a busy glider field on a competition day or busy weekend, tugging looks very hard work, not just a pleasant bimble around, you will be worked for your time and be prepared to have the glider jocks getting really arsey with you too when you take more than five minutes to do a tow and get down again.
Apart from the fact a tuggie needs to be able to appreciate what a glider is doing, (would have though being a solo A/B holder would be sufficient), the high gliding requirement is there, so I've been told, to get tug pilots that are actually keen on gliding, not just (CPL) hours builders who will run off at the first sign of a commerical job leaving the club in limbo. Not all clubs have this rule, I recall hearing of other clubs (up north I think) who just wanted "Glider experience", which meant A/B badge holders were eligable.
Each club has it's own rules and how stringent they are may determine how many prospective tuggies they've got on the list, if any. IMHO, it's not quite the fab gig many think it should be, it's up to you, just go in with your eyes & mind open and get past the "Ooooo, free flying" concept, TANSTAAFL as they say.
YOU have to pay for all the training and flight time before you get to be an approved tuggie. Balance that with the hours you will get which is largely flying round in circles, if that's your thing then great, it's for you (it doesn't sound like fun tome). I did some gliding there last year and they tried to get me interested when they knew I was a PPL, I made my excuses as it looked like a very one-sided deal and I didn't consider doing circuits all day as the flying I wanted to do (that and I'm a PPL not a CPL wannabe so aren't too bothered about hours building) and the notes revealed how much it would cost me.
Also, I suggest you go to a busy glider field on a competition day or busy weekend, tugging looks very hard work, not just a pleasant bimble around, you will be worked for your time and be prepared to have the glider jocks getting really arsey with you too when you take more than five minutes to do a tow and get down again.
Apart from the fact a tuggie needs to be able to appreciate what a glider is doing, (would have though being a solo A/B holder would be sufficient), the high gliding requirement is there, so I've been told, to get tug pilots that are actually keen on gliding, not just (CPL) hours builders who will run off at the first sign of a commerical job leaving the club in limbo. Not all clubs have this rule, I recall hearing of other clubs (up north I think) who just wanted "Glider experience", which meant A/B badge holders were eligable.
Each club has it's own rules and how stringent they are may determine how many prospective tuggies they've got on the list, if any. IMHO, it's not quite the fab gig many think it should be, it's up to you, just go in with your eyes & mind open and get past the "Ooooo, free flying" concept, TANSTAAFL as they say.
Last edited by DBisDogOne; 30th Jan 2008 at 17:02.
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As one of the guys at the other end of the rope, I'd say that tugging is hard work and, at the smaller clubs, much appreciated.
Lasham is at the St James clubland end of the gliding world - many glider pilots there (not all of course) are flying gliders worth multiples of the tug value, and for them the tug pilot might be little more than a lowly paid service provider.
In small clubs, tug pilots are valued members and often bought beer, particularly if they've dropped a glider in a particularly good thermal. However, this means that tugging vacancies in small clubs are normally filled by personal recommendation.
From talking to tug pilots, I'd say:
1. Your handling skills will become top notch. Crosswind landings will be the norm, as gliders seem to be able to cope easily with crosswinds which have the tug pilot doing a Fred Astaire impression.
2. Your perception of what's going on around will also improve radically - playing in the same circuit as a bunch of near-invisible gliders who may be forced to do unpredictable things is a challenge.
3. If male, you may need to adopt a John Wayne walk to accommodate your balls of steel. I've been on tows where I only hung on because the tug pilot was still going, and I suspect he only hung on because I hadn't let go. There's a lot of marginal/edge of the envelope flying involved. Plus, the glider pilot can kill you if he loses concentration, so there's a lot of trust needed.
You may have gathered that I'm very fond of tug pilots, at least if I want a tow right now. The rest of the time, I just admire their nerve.
Lasham is at the St James clubland end of the gliding world - many glider pilots there (not all of course) are flying gliders worth multiples of the tug value, and for them the tug pilot might be little more than a lowly paid service provider.
In small clubs, tug pilots are valued members and often bought beer, particularly if they've dropped a glider in a particularly good thermal. However, this means that tugging vacancies in small clubs are normally filled by personal recommendation.
From talking to tug pilots, I'd say:
1. Your handling skills will become top notch. Crosswind landings will be the norm, as gliders seem to be able to cope easily with crosswinds which have the tug pilot doing a Fred Astaire impression.
2. Your perception of what's going on around will also improve radically - playing in the same circuit as a bunch of near-invisible gliders who may be forced to do unpredictable things is a challenge.
3. If male, you may need to adopt a John Wayne walk to accommodate your balls of steel. I've been on tows where I only hung on because the tug pilot was still going, and I suspect he only hung on because I hadn't let go. There's a lot of marginal/edge of the envelope flying involved. Plus, the glider pilot can kill you if he loses concentration, so there's a lot of trust needed.
You may have gathered that I'm very fond of tug pilots, at least if I want a tow right now. The rest of the time, I just admire their nerve.
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I'd have to agree with that. Our best wave conditions are in strong southerlies, unfortunately that means a good going howling crosswind on our east/west runway. Quite often i've looked out the window and thought nobody in their right mind would fly in this today yet low and behold I get to the club and theres 10 gliders lined up patiently waiting at the launch point, despite the horizontal windsock! Ah well, better pack the 'balls of steel' in and fire up the tug! It certainly develops the handling skills, thats for sure. It can also be tiring too, I once did 32 launches in a day and was absolutely shattered by packing up time. Probably the only time i've wished the chippie had an autopilot! I did get the beer bought for me later in the pub though.
And Profchrisreed, your absolutely right, you need a huge amount of trust at times, especially when there's someone inexperienced behind you. Only once has someone come close to killing me, ironically however it was the club CFI! Complacency on his part nearly put me nose in from 50ft. We had suitable 'words'.
And Profchrisreed, your absolutely right, you need a huge amount of trust at times, especially when there's someone inexperienced behind you. Only once has someone come close to killing me, ironically however it was the club CFI! Complacency on his part nearly put me nose in from 50ft. We had suitable 'words'.
Originally Posted by grob103
I rather like the gliding club culture in the UK - it's 99% volunteer labour and everything's done at cost.
The club's I have flown with typically don't require a silver C. But soaring experience is desired. Fortunately for me it wasn't required, tailwheel time was more important. Then I got interested and got into soaring too. Everybody wins. Even if they don't pay me to tow. It is the best proficency flying there is, because there is a mission to it rather than just boring holes in the sky.
-- IFMU
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Also keep an eye on www.gliderpilot.net thats where you'll find tuggie vacancies. I can see 2 fairly recent ones there just now, one for Yorkshire, the other Bidford.
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Flying Dutch wrote:
Don't forget that gliding clubs, as mainly volunteer organisations, make decisions by committee. Quite probably the emails are waiting for the next committee meeting.
The only quick decisions made at gliding clubs are those made by pilots in flight.
I emailed the address in the first post but no reply as yet.
The only quick decisions made at gliding clubs are those made by pilots in flight.
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Picking up on a few of the points raised:
at the moment, so if you haven't had a response please use a PM.
Flying Dutch - I believe I have responded to you, which suggests our outgoing e-mails aren't working too well. I'll resend tomorrow.
- The role is unpaid as this role is suitable for a PPL and it's illegal to pay a PPL to fly
- We don't charge the staff tuggie for their training
- Quite apart from the benefits of having a Silver C, it's also a requirement of our insurers.
at the moment, so if you haven't had a response please use a PM.Flying Dutch - I believe I have responded to you, which suggests our outgoing e-mails aren't working too well. I'll resend tomorrow.
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172 driver:
- We don't charge the staff tuggie for their training
Notes for tug pilots 1.1.5..."Tug pilot training is at the new tug pilots expense."
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The last time I was at Lasham (Sept.07) a tug pilot told me there was a waiting list of tug pilots, and that they have to pay the club to fly ~ the cost is actually listed on their flying price list.
Can't quite see why they would be advertising here...
Can't quite see why they would be advertising here...
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Perhaps there are fewer people around who are willing to be taken advantage of.
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I seem to have inadvertently created confusion. I shall try to be clearer.
The Staff Tug Pilot doesn't have to pay for training. He/she isn't paid for flying (a legal requirement - sorry, moggiee).
Volunteer tug pilots (members who volunteer to fly the tugs, of which there are fortunately a good number and who do the majority of the tug flying) do pay for their own training. They are also able to rent the tugs for their own use at quiet times, which is why there's a price on the price list.
I'm beginning to wish I hadn't bothered , but I thought some people might be interested and the response confirms this . Thank you to all those of you have expressed an interest - I'll be passing all comments on to the tugmaster and will come back to you individually in due course.
The Staff Tug Pilot doesn't have to pay for training. He/she isn't paid for flying (a legal requirement - sorry, moggiee).
Volunteer tug pilots (members who volunteer to fly the tugs, of which there are fortunately a good number and who do the majority of the tug flying) do pay for their own training. They are also able to rent the tugs for their own use at quiet times, which is why there's a price on the price list.
Can't quite see why they would be advertising here...
, but I thought some people might be interested and the response confirms this . Thank you to all those of you have expressed an interest - I'll be passing all comments on to the tugmaster and will come back to you individually in due course.
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Personally, I cant see what people are complaining about. It sounds like a way to get some hours and experience in a different role than what PPL'ers normally do, and also to a way meet lots of new people who share the same love of aviation which we all have. Perhaps some of you are being over cynical ??
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I appreciate that it's not a "CPL job" but if you wanted to find a way to reward the tug pilot financially, you could.
Last edited by moggiee; 4th Feb 2008 at 14:33.
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I 'm sure there is plenty of money in the system at Lasham, it's just a case of the people running it taking advantage of others.
If you wanted to build up hours for a CPL I couldn't think of a bigger waste to time, it's hardly the type of flying you are going to need to be proficient at, either during or after professional flight training.
There is either a 'waiting list' or not but advertising for an unpaid flying position on PPRuNe is shameful.
If Lasham need a pilot to do 'work', either paid or unpaid, they should employ a professional pilot, perhaps a local instructor, rather than come out with all this BS about waiting lists, etc.
If you wanted to build up hours for a CPL I couldn't think of a bigger waste to time, it's hardly the type of flying you are going to need to be proficient at, either during or after professional flight training.
There is either a 'waiting list' or not but advertising for an unpaid flying position on PPRuNe is shameful.
If Lasham need a pilot to do 'work', either paid or unpaid, they should employ a professional pilot, perhaps a local instructor, rather than come out with all this BS about waiting lists, etc.