Vacancy for tug pilot - unpaid.
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The primary reason for this is the pilot has to solo the airplane the first time he or she flies it, since it only has one seat. The truth of it is the Pawnee is the most benign taildragger I have ever flown, either in the air or on the ground. It's a good airplane.
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The primary reason for this is the pilot has to solo the airplane the first time he or she flies it, since it only has one seat. The truth of it is the Pawnee is the most benign taildragger I have ever flown, either in the air or on the ground. It's a good airplane.
" Indeed a lovely aircraft and very easy to teach yourself to fly, just remember that the nose slopes down so avoid the temptation to try and land it with the nose in the more usual pointing at the sky attitude and you will avoid hitting tail first. The view is amazing, its like being sat in a bubble! "
Seconded - or thirded ! Not as much fun to fly as the Super Cub, but much more reassuring on windy, wave rotor filled days with limit crosswinds.
Very forgiving of mishandling.
The primary reason for this is the pilot has to solo the airplane the first time he or she flies it, since it only has one seat. The truth of it is the Pawnee is the most benign taildragger I have ever flown, either in the air or on the ground. It's a good airplane.
" Indeed a lovely aircraft and very easy to teach yourself to fly, just remember that the nose slopes down so avoid the temptation to try and land it with the nose in the more usual pointing at the sky attitude and you will avoid hitting tail first. The view is amazing, its like being sat in a bubble! "
Seconded - or thirded ! Not as much fun to fly as the Super Cub, but much more reassuring on windy, wave rotor filled days with limit crosswinds.
Very forgiving of mishandling.
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HELP!
Can all of you reading this thread name types of airplanes you have used or seen used to pull up gliders?
Together with your opinion about them?
I've only flown a Pawnee a couple of times. But I've been pulled up by Pawnees frequently. And they get you up there in no time. Actually flying the animal, yes it is remarkably simple, and built for LARGE American pilots, as a woman I have to sit rather arms and legs akimbo! More or less lands itself, I found, and seems to be unaffected by X-winds, unlike the Super Cub which has to be treated with great finess in a X-wind. I have groundlooped my 150 Cub at least 5 times. Not nice! Got away with it 4 times......
Mary
Together with your opinion about them?
I've only flown a Pawnee a couple of times. But I've been pulled up by Pawnees frequently. And they get you up there in no time. Actually flying the animal, yes it is remarkably simple, and built for LARGE American pilots, as a woman I have to sit rather arms and legs akimbo! More or less lands itself, I found, and seems to be unaffected by X-winds, unlike the Super Cub which has to be treated with great finess in a X-wind. I have groundlooped my 150 Cub at least 5 times. Not nice! Got away with it 4 times......
Mary
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Piper Pawnee is certainly powerfull tug, but I am not sure about the price.
In Spain I was towing with M.S. Rallye 235GT, with the same 235hp engine as some Pawnees have. Rallye is too heavy, although it has slats and you get airborne quite soon, you have to wait for the safe speed for climbing. Rallye is very comfortable, but the view is poor while climbing.
In Slovakia and Czech Republic we mostly use Zlin Trener types. Z-226MS is light and powerfull (180hp), but it is not so easy to fly. Since you dont see anything while taxying you must do "snake taxying". The pilot sits on the rear seat so the view is not so great. You have to do three-points landing, otherwise you can start jumping. The main wheel landing is used only for strong gusting and x-wind. However, flying this machine is a great passion. Especially Z-526AFS single seater, aerobatic type. You feel like sitting in the P51 Mustang
Other tow planes: Elster-C (nice to fly), Robin DR400, Husky, Citabria, DHC1 Supermunk...
In Spain I was towing with M.S. Rallye 235GT, with the same 235hp engine as some Pawnees have. Rallye is too heavy, although it has slats and you get airborne quite soon, you have to wait for the safe speed for climbing. Rallye is very comfortable, but the view is poor while climbing.
In Slovakia and Czech Republic we mostly use Zlin Trener types. Z-226MS is light and powerfull (180hp), but it is not so easy to fly. Since you dont see anything while taxying you must do "snake taxying". The pilot sits on the rear seat so the view is not so great. You have to do three-points landing, otherwise you can start jumping. The main wheel landing is used only for strong gusting and x-wind. However, flying this machine is a great passion. Especially Z-526AFS single seater, aerobatic type. You feel like sitting in the P51 Mustang
Other tow planes: Elster-C (nice to fly), Robin DR400, Husky, Citabria, DHC1 Supermunk...
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Mary,
can't tell much about tug handling, as I've only been flying from the back end of the rope, but:
Ulster GC - PA18 180hp - nice to have its high wings show angle with horizon (if clear) for turns learning the aerotow 'ropes' Sometimes they use/d also Robin DR300. Agree, crosswinds come into play with Cubs.
AK Prievidza, Slovakia - they tow with Dynamic WT9 (ultralight trike) of 100 or 120hp (think), takes ages to accelerate in 'the pig' (G103 old one) with two heavy guys. One has to learn to be patient skimming the ground, position nose into wind with crosswinds and further up, being coordinated otherwise pulling the tail sideways too much. AGES on tow to 1km up.
AK Zbraslavice, Czech Rep. - resident Zlin 226 tug, similar to Chipmunk, but 'nicer', 180hp low wing tailwheel. I'd say nice tug. Zlin -26 series are used as tug all over Czech/Slovak reps. I've also seen Zlin 37 tow, HK36 Super Dimona, reasonable for what it is, and crap SkyLeader ultralight that can't really climb on hot day, with not too heavy glider. Well, cheap flight hours offered by private owner attracted some willing guinea pigs :-)
My experience is limited, haven't been towed by Pawnee just yet, as been busy winch training.
can't tell much about tug handling, as I've only been flying from the back end of the rope, but:
Ulster GC - PA18 180hp - nice to have its high wings show angle with horizon (if clear) for turns learning the aerotow 'ropes'
Sometimes they use/d also Robin DR300. Agree, crosswinds come into play with Cubs.AK Prievidza, Slovakia - they tow with Dynamic WT9 (ultralight trike) of 100 or 120hp (think), takes ages to accelerate in 'the pig' (G103 old one) with two heavy guys. One has to learn to be patient skimming the ground, position nose into wind with crosswinds and further up, being coordinated otherwise pulling the tail sideways too much. AGES on tow to 1km up.
AK Zbraslavice, Czech Rep. - resident Zlin 226 tug, similar to Chipmunk, but 'nicer', 180hp low wing tailwheel. I'd say nice tug. Zlin -26 series are used as tug all over Czech/Slovak reps. I've also seen Zlin 37 tow, HK36 Super Dimona, reasonable for what it is, and crap SkyLeader ultralight that can't really climb on hot day, with not too heavy glider. Well, cheap flight hours offered by private owner attracted some willing guinea pigs :-)
My experience is limited, haven't been towed by Pawnee just yet, as been busy winch training.
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Chippie(lycoming). Much nicer to fly than a pawnee....just not quite as powerful unfortunately. Robin 400 is a good tug as well, nice to fly, eats up runway pretty fast though.
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towed with pawnee, super cub, Auster 6a (with gypsy 10-2), Rallye 180gt, Rallye minerva.
Been towed behind Super Falke, super monk, tiger moth, huskey, Citarbria, robin 200 / 400, scout, pawnee, supercub, auster, condor (very underpowered i was in a K6E so not much of a issue)
Been towed behind Super Falke, super monk, tiger moth, huskey, Citarbria, robin 200 / 400, scout, pawnee, supercub, auster, condor (very underpowered i was in a K6E so not much of a issue)
dhc83driver -
Ah, Condor moments! Underpowered - quite an understatement. Are we climbing or is it the earth's curvature? Defintely a tug that need a soaring pilot flying it!
The only worse climbing tug than a Condor I have seen was a Beagle Airedale many eaers ago. 'Orrible to watch.
Ah, Condor moments! Underpowered - quite an understatement. Are we climbing or is it the earth's curvature? Defintely a tug that need a soaring pilot flying it!
The only worse climbing tug than a Condor I have seen was a Beagle Airedale many eaers ago. 'Orrible to watch.
Besides the old standby Pawnee and super cub, I've been towed with a 180HP Maule. Not a rocket ship for towing but it did the job.
** EDIT **
It may have been a 160 Maule. I don't remember. But it towed the 1-26 a lot better than the Krosno.
-- IFMU
** EDIT **
It may have been a 160 Maule. I don't remember. But it towed the 1-26 a lot better than the Krosno.
-- IFMU
Last edited by IFMU; 12th Jun 2010 at 02:13. Reason: Memory is the second thing to go. Can't remember the first.
Towed mostly with 150 and 180 cubs, Robin DR 400-180, Rallye MS 893 180, Pawnee, and a bit on Wilga and Yak 12 (looks like a Cub on steroids).
Pawnee and the Yak are the easiest IMHO to fly for tugging. The Yak and the Wilga both guzzle petrol, 260 hp radial engine (sounds nice, though)
Been towed by all the above, plus Supermunk, 235 rallye, 172, tiger moth.
Which is best depends on what's on the other end of the rope!
Pawnee and the Yak are the easiest IMHO to fly for tugging. The Yak and the Wilga both guzzle petrol, 260 hp radial engine (sounds nice, though)
Been towed by all the above, plus Supermunk, 235 rallye, 172, tiger moth.
Which is best depends on what's on the other end of the rope!
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tankengine,
the 180hp C150 has to be kind of "trike Super Cub", ahem. That powerful engine in that just doesn't sound right. Maybe if it was Texas C150/152 conversion to tailwheel..
Wilga, hmm. Besides recent UK publicity with Nigel Farage crash, it's good climber, designed for towing, but looks strange. Or as someone just said today at the club, corrugated cardboard box with prop.
C5, I haven't been towed by Pawnee yet as I've worked on winch training. I soloed off winch last Sunday, yesterday and today, alongside healthy dose of cable break practice. I already spend a lot on bunch of winches last six weeks. I had a ride in the back of Super Cub year ago during single seater tow, it was fun.
the 180hp C150 has to be kind of "trike Super Cub", ahem. That powerful engine in that just doesn't sound right. Maybe if it was Texas C150/152 conversion to tailwheel..
Wilga, hmm. Besides recent UK publicity with Nigel Farage crash, it's good climber, designed for towing, but looks strange. Or as someone just said today at the club, corrugated cardboard box with prop.
C5, I haven't been towed by Pawnee yet as I've worked on winch training. I soloed off winch last Sunday, yesterday and today, alongside healthy dose of cable break practice. I already spend a lot on bunch of winches last six weeks. I had a ride in the back of Super Cub year ago during single seater tow, it was fun.
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The C150-180 sits on C172 undercarriage to have more prop and tailhook clearance.
There are a couple of them in Australia and after a slightly slower initial ground roll they perform with the 235HP Pawnee and at least as well as the Super cub.
Just need to re-rivet the tail every now and then!
There are a couple of them in Australia and after a slightly slower initial ground roll they perform with the 235HP Pawnee and at least as well as the Super cub.
Just need to re-rivet the tail every now and then!
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Wilga wasn't bad as a towing aircraft - it certainly had the power to launch pretty much anything. The only issue I remember was the speed it climbed at - depending on how sympathetic the tuggy was feeling you could be left slobbering around at 60kts and going up at a rather ungodly angle. Was ok solo but two people in a heavy Janus C was a bit more of a challenge 
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I remember getting a aerotow retrieve behind a supermonk in a K18, climbed up to 5000` for the cruise and as we levelled off he must of forgot i was a wooden ship as the speed rapidly rose to over 100kts, he said later he slowed down when the wing tips stated to droop! (with the washout if you`ve ever seen the k18 going fast, VNE was 108kts!)
Sometimes you can have to much power, on the other hand i towed a nimbus 4 with the Auster and had to go flapless to give him enough speed to get airbourne, not good when the tug is climbing and the glider is still firmly on the ground!. I could see him almost waffling behind in the mirror. it was a very slow climb with a rather warm engine. I`m sure he appreciated the little black spots over his aeroplane from the drippsy major!
Sometimes you can have to much power, on the other hand i towed a nimbus 4 with the Auster and had to go flapless to give him enough speed to get airbourne, not good when the tug is climbing and the glider is still firmly on the ground!. I could see him almost waffling behind in the mirror. it was a very slow climb with a rather warm engine. I`m sure he appreciated the little black spots over his aeroplane from the drippsy major!
It's a legal requirement for the tug pilot to be a member of the gliding club. The tug pilot membership fee tends to depends on how desperate the club is for new tug pilots...
Back in 88 my gf was doing her slmgppl at a very flat GC in norfolk,i was helping out on the real glider launch point and the course instructor persuaded me to do a little fying with him.I had only done a few very sporadic aerotows over the years but was a reasonably experienced glider pilot (almost all winch)
Anyway he sent me solo after 2 aerotows (he said ''I knew exactly when it all clicked''),so here I am sitting on my own in a dear old K13 when the Condor tug pilot walks over and asks ''can you thermal on tow ?''....'well i'll give it a go says I'...great fun...thanks eric.
I have done a K8 /Pawnee tow (big engined variety) and it was more akin to a winch launch...I do not think I could have put a bow in the rope even if i tried very hard
Anyway he sent me solo after 2 aerotows (he said ''I knew exactly when it all clicked''),so here I am sitting on my own in a dear old K13 when the Condor tug pilot walks over and asks ''can you thermal on tow ?''....'well i'll give it a go says I'...great fun...thanks eric.
I have done a K8 /Pawnee tow (big engined variety) and it was more akin to a winch launch...I do not think I could have put a bow in the rope even if i tried very hard
