IMC rating in theUK?
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IMC rating in theUK?
What's this IMC rating they're talking about on the Flight International website? How is different from an IFR rating?
I've posted the article below:
UK battles to save IMC rating for GA pilots
By Kate Sarsfield
The UK general aviation (GA) community is bracing itself for a bitter and protracted battle with 27 European Union member states whose widespread opposition to the instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) rating for pilots has forced its exclusion from the European Aviation Safety Agency draft regulation for flight crew licences (FCL).
The agency is developing a set of common standards across 31 EASA member states which will be enforceable by European law.
The IMC rating is unique to the UK due to the country's notoriously unpredictable weather and has been in existence in its various forms since 1970. The UK Civil Aviation Authority, the only national aviation authority to voice its support for the rating, says it is designed to train pilots to rescue themselves from inadvertent entry into deteriorating weather conditions.
The authority has issued around 25,000 IMC ratings to holders of air transport, commercial and private pilots licences, of which 2,300 are still current. "The IMC rating has been a safety boon," says the CAA. "There have been eight air proxes in seven years involving commercial aircraft in IMC conditions, but none of these involves a GA pilot with an IMC rating."
"A lot of people have spent time their time and money on a rating that will allow them to operate safely in bad weather and save their lives and others. EASA doesn't have a right to take this away," says a GA pilot.
The CAA and GA supporters have done a substantial amount of lobbying at European level to convince EU member states and stakeholders of the need to protect the rating.
However the opposition is widespread with countries including France, Germany, Italy and Poland appearing resolute.
"Apart from the UK nobody has come out in support of the rating. A number of states are saying nothing at all," says EASA deputy head of flight standards Eric Sivel. Opponents, which also include commercial operators, argue that rather than improve safety, the IMC rating encourages pilots to take unnecessary risks.
"Our opponents argue that if pilots choose to fly in IMC conditions they should get a proper instrument rating, but these are very time-consuming, costly and unnecessary as most of the time they are flying under visual flight rules and in visual metrological conditions," says the CAA.
The draft FCL regulation is scheduled for publication by March and should be adopted early next year following consultation, comment and review periods. EU and EASA member states then have a three-year transition period to implement the changes. EASA says it "supports the preservation of some sort of IMC flying in Europe" and is keen to find a solution.
"Although the IMC rating has not been included in the draft, pilots can continue flying with the rating until the end of the transition period in 2012. But over the next four years work we will work to build support for IMC flying throughout the EU member states," it says.
I've posted the article below:
UK battles to save IMC rating for GA pilots
By Kate Sarsfield
The UK general aviation (GA) community is bracing itself for a bitter and protracted battle with 27 European Union member states whose widespread opposition to the instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) rating for pilots has forced its exclusion from the European Aviation Safety Agency draft regulation for flight crew licences (FCL).
The agency is developing a set of common standards across 31 EASA member states which will be enforceable by European law.
The IMC rating is unique to the UK due to the country's notoriously unpredictable weather and has been in existence in its various forms since 1970. The UK Civil Aviation Authority, the only national aviation authority to voice its support for the rating, says it is designed to train pilots to rescue themselves from inadvertent entry into deteriorating weather conditions.
The authority has issued around 25,000 IMC ratings to holders of air transport, commercial and private pilots licences, of which 2,300 are still current. "The IMC rating has been a safety boon," says the CAA. "There have been eight air proxes in seven years involving commercial aircraft in IMC conditions, but none of these involves a GA pilot with an IMC rating."
"A lot of people have spent time their time and money on a rating that will allow them to operate safely in bad weather and save their lives and others. EASA doesn't have a right to take this away," says a GA pilot.
The CAA and GA supporters have done a substantial amount of lobbying at European level to convince EU member states and stakeholders of the need to protect the rating.
However the opposition is widespread with countries including France, Germany, Italy and Poland appearing resolute.
"Apart from the UK nobody has come out in support of the rating. A number of states are saying nothing at all," says EASA deputy head of flight standards Eric Sivel. Opponents, which also include commercial operators, argue that rather than improve safety, the IMC rating encourages pilots to take unnecessary risks.
"Our opponents argue that if pilots choose to fly in IMC conditions they should get a proper instrument rating, but these are very time-consuming, costly and unnecessary as most of the time they are flying under visual flight rules and in visual metrological conditions," says the CAA.
The draft FCL regulation is scheduled for publication by March and should be adopted early next year following consultation, comment and review periods. EU and EASA member states then have a three-year transition period to implement the changes. EASA says it "supports the preservation of some sort of IMC flying in Europe" and is keen to find a solution.
"Although the IMC rating has not been included in the draft, pilots can continue flying with the rating until the end of the transition period in 2012. But over the next four years work we will work to build support for IMC flying throughout the EU member states," it says.
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The IMC
In brief, it allows me as a PPL holder to fly in cloud in all classes of airspace except class A. So here in the UK I can fly from my home base, near London and fly to any of the major airfields around the UK (except London Heathrow) and fly in cloud to get there and fly an IAP when I get there.
It does not allow flight in IMC in the airways. However it is possible to get around the UK outside class A.
Its fantastic and allows me to get all over the UK with a degree of certainty. I use it as a pseudo IR. i don't go along with the "to get you out of trouble" school of thought as you have to be current. I fly an IAP at least once a week so I feel current.
It does not allow flight in IMC in the airways. However it is possible to get around the UK outside class A.
Its fantastic and allows me to get all over the UK with a degree of certainty. I use it as a pseudo IR. i don't go along with the "to get you out of trouble" school of thought as you have to be current. I fly an IAP at least once a week so I feel current.
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There is loads on the IMC rating in the Private Flying Forum.
A brief description...
15hrs flying training, with a minimum of that 10hrs on instruments alone covering basic instrument flying skills, unusual attitudes and usually ILS, VOR and NDB tracking/approaches as well.
Clears the pilot to fly IFR in the open FIR as well as class D airspace with a reduction in SVFR minims to 3km in flight vis for class A airspace (up from 10km and in sight of the surface). Approaches to airports in class D airspace may also be made.
The differences between the IMC rating and the IR in terms of privileges are:
Minimum 1800m vis for take off and landing.
A recommended minimum DH of 500ft for precision approaches and 600ft (or published MDA+200ft whichever is higher) MDA for non-precision approaches.
No IFR airways flight.
Valid only in the UK.
The rating is used mostly by PPLs in the UK, but also by ATPLs who have let their single pilot IRs lapse.
I see though Three Yellows has beaten me to it....
A brief description...
15hrs flying training, with a minimum of that 10hrs on instruments alone covering basic instrument flying skills, unusual attitudes and usually ILS, VOR and NDB tracking/approaches as well.
Clears the pilot to fly IFR in the open FIR as well as class D airspace with a reduction in SVFR minims to 3km in flight vis for class A airspace (up from 10km and in sight of the surface). Approaches to airports in class D airspace may also be made.
The differences between the IMC rating and the IR in terms of privileges are:
Minimum 1800m vis for take off and landing.
A recommended minimum DH of 500ft for precision approaches and 600ft (or published MDA+200ft whichever is higher) MDA for non-precision approaches.
No IFR airways flight.
Valid only in the UK.
The rating is used mostly by PPLs in the UK, but also by ATPLs who have let their single pilot IRs lapse.
I see though Three Yellows has beaten me to it....
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It's a cheap and nasty licence to have a go at instrument flying.
(now, I'll bet a lot of money that the mods have this one away quickly... They don't like the truth, you see...)
(now, I'll bet a lot of money that the mods have this one away quickly... They don't like the truth, you see...)
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Sounds like another infexible, costly and unecessary decision which affects the safety of pilots and their passengers as well as preventing the training of pilots on how to recover from flying IMC when it's vitally important. Unfortunately, the crew of a PA28 lost their lives approaching Blackpool Airport last year when encountering IMC conditions. Surely this will make the licencing expensive and out of reach of many GA pilots and ultimately lead to further incidents. 
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As a US ATC who also ran into this concept online, I asked about it here almost a year ago. Some excellent explanations in this thread: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=266308
Dave
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the crew of a PA28 lost their lives approaching Blackpool Airport last year when encountering IMC conditions
They didn't 'encounter' those conditions, they flew into them knowingly.
Read the report! The mother of one of those involved posts here, by the way.
In my honest opinion, that post is utterly typical of the dim-witted, thick-skulled, UK PPL community: always justifying their petty little ways with twisted interpretations of the real world.
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Three yellows,
Yes, very much so. UK ATPL holder, lots of hours, many classes and types, including rotary and fixed wing, medium and heavy transport aircraft (both seats), training background...
...and the ability to see beyond the end of my nose to the bigger picture...
Yes, very much so. UK ATPL holder, lots of hours, many classes and types, including rotary and fixed wing, medium and heavy transport aircraft (both seats), training background...
...and the ability to see beyond the end of my nose to the bigger picture...
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Zorst,
You seem quite excited about this!
I'll be honest and say that the level of IMC training I received was very poor indeed. I learnt more from my mate (100hr PPL) than I did from my instructor. I was lucky I did my IMC with a great deal of real world aviation under my (not inconsiderable) belt. The bits my mate didn't teach me, I taught myself - not ideal.
If the IMC is to survive then I believe that the quality of instruction needs to be improved.
For the flying I do, I need an IR, but I don't have the time to do the JAR IR so I'm doing the FAA IR and putting the plane on the N reg, despite all of the fears about EASA and N reg planes.
Could you take a deep breath and tell us what troubles you so much.
You seem quite excited about this!
I'll be honest and say that the level of IMC training I received was very poor indeed. I learnt more from my mate (100hr PPL) than I did from my instructor. I was lucky I did my IMC with a great deal of real world aviation under my (not inconsiderable) belt. The bits my mate didn't teach me, I taught myself - not ideal.
If the IMC is to survive then I believe that the quality of instruction needs to be improved.
For the flying I do, I need an IR, but I don't have the time to do the JAR IR so I'm doing the FAA IR and putting the plane on the N reg, despite all of the fears about EASA and N reg planes.
Could you take a deep breath and tell us what troubles you so much.
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Zorst - sounds like elitest bull**** to me. IMC holders with good currency are more than capable of hand flying substantial sectors to IAP minima. Can the average button-pushing ATPL say the same? The rating, and the skills taught are what you make of them; use them or lose them. That said, the safety case for the IMC rating in the UK is statistically overwhelming. Ask the CAA...
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Well, in your case, it's that you're going to ask the Feds to regulate your safety, yet you're going to keep your aeroplane well out of their reach.
Now, what did I say about justifying petty little ways?
QED
Now, what did I say about justifying petty little ways?
QED
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IMC holders with good currency are more than capable of hand flying substantial sectors to IAP minima. Can the average button-pushing ATPL say the same?
Referring to your jibe at airline pilots... Glancing through my log book, about a third of my recent medium jet approaches were hand flown on raw data. I can't answer for my colleagues.
Nothing elite here, just very peed off at some totally inappropriate remarks trying to justify retention of a one-off dodgy qualification by relating it to a very sad and completely avoidable fatal accident.
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Zorst,
I don't know why you are being so offensive when you haven't met me or flown with me.
I suspect that you are not British as Brits don't call the government (any goverment) "the Feds".
You haven't actually said anything sensible at all. What's petty about putting an aeroplane on the N reg and having further IR training to go with it?
Please say something sensible or go back to hand flying your 747 around the world...... what version of MS flight Sim are you using?
I don't know why you are being so offensive when you haven't met me or flown with me.
I suspect that you are not British as Brits don't call the government (any goverment) "the Feds".
You haven't actually said anything sensible at all. What's petty about putting an aeroplane on the N reg and having further IR training to go with it?
Please say something sensible or go back to hand flying your 747 around the world...... what version of MS flight Sim are you using?
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I'm well into my IR, and thus far haven't learnt anything which has improved my flying skills (not an ego-trip, simply an observation). I took a current B744-rated friend up in my aircraft in solid IMC and without the AP he was in a right mess, found the workload overwhelming. He's a great pilot, but was simply out of touch with instrument flight at a rudimentary level. That doesn't make him a bad ATPL, just a fish out of water.
Like I said, it's what you make of it; 15hrs is nothing, but an experienced, capable, practiced IMC-rated pilot is more than capable of flying with superb accuracy. By the same token, an IMC holder who lives in VMC for 2 years then tries to fly a procedural ILS to minima is probably toast and an idiot for getting airborne in the first place.
Like I said, it's what you make of it; 15hrs is nothing, but an experienced, capable, practiced IMC-rated pilot is more than capable of flying with superb accuracy. By the same token, an IMC holder who lives in VMC for 2 years then tries to fly a procedural ILS to minima is probably toast and an idiot for getting airborne in the first place.
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Common sense please
As a high hours PPL and (h) pilot operating a modern light aircraft for business and pleasure at all times of the year and travelling to and from the UK & Switzerland I have find the whole IMC or not debate rather irksome, and as a long term "observer" rather than contributor to PPrune this particular subject has prompted me to put the old keyboard into action. The way I see it, is that ANY form of training over an above the PPL can only be a good thing. I seem to detect that the IR stakeholders who have invested considerable time and effort in gaining their status seem a little peeved that Joe Public can mix it with them in the clouds rather than applying common sense and equiping normal social pilots with key skills that seems from the stats to prove that we can control an aircraft quite safely in marginal weather which has a nasty habit of producing accidents on non-IMC holders where they inadvertently enter rain/cloud/mist/fog. But more than anything the rating for me gives me a sense that on a regular bi-annual basis I am assessed for my competence not just in instrument flying but also ILS , NDB navigation which is a large part of my weekly flying and this produces one net result - CONFIDENCE. I have seen so many friends / fellow pilots make bad decisions and lose their confidence in marginal weather just when they needed it. It may only be a rating but it allows me personally to keep safe when the conditions change and not panic. I would never chose to fly IMC on a long business related trip but sometimes terrain , weather conditions may not make it a choice but a forced reality and like all good training in any walk of life, it equips you with the ability to cope when it matters. So please EASA get off your high horse and think about raising the bar - not lowering it or at least change the IR into a sensible rating for people like me who will never fly commercially. Anyway I must get back to my IR course, currently having to learn how to use polar jet airways........need I say more.
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Regarding "Zorst", best thing is to not feed the trolls.
But even so I wouldn't be suprised if he recieved a broadside 'a la PPRuNe' anyway...
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contacttower
"The rating is used mostly by PPLs in the UK, but also by ATPLs who have let their single pilot IRs lapse."
I think you will find that anyone who has switched from a UK/CAA CPL/ATPL to a JAA, they no longer have this privelage.
"The rating is used mostly by PPLs in the UK, but also by ATPLs who have let their single pilot IRs lapse."
I think you will find that anyone who has switched from a UK/CAA CPL/ATPL to a JAA, they no longer have this privelage.