YOUR INSTRUCTOR--Friend or Foe?
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of Oban
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good or bad?
My first instructor was excellent. I hadn't got a clue - despite reading the books - about how the ailerons worked in opposition to each other; couldn't figure out what yaw was all about, and just generally couldn't visualise what the books were talking about. My first instructor gave excellent briefings, using a little aircraft which made everything so clear.
He did the same in the air. His demonstrations were very clear, and if I didn't understand something, he talked me through it.
I then went out to Florida to do the rest of my training and thanked God that I had had that first instructor. My instructor in Florida was more intent on having fun in the aircraft himself. He flew it himself for the first 2 hours - told me to sit and watch the view.
He couldn't teach me how to flare. It wasn't just me - there was another guy in exactly the same boat.
When I finally mastered that, with the help of another instructor, I went solo having not done any training for EFATO, stalls, steep turns, slow flight, etc. Basically, my first 14 hours with that guy was spent with him flying the aircraft for the vast majority of the time. He loved showing me how he could get it to fly "backwards" in a strong wind!
I got another, far better and more diligent instructor and went on from there - and completed my training in the 45 hours out there. Fortunately, as I've said, I had that excellent instructor at home who gave me a good grounding in the circuit drills, and who also did some of the handling with me before I left for Florida.
My first instructor was in a school based on an RAF base. The standard of instruction there was excellent and it was the same no matter which instructor you got. They all taught to exactly the same specification.
The contrast between there and the school in Florida was night and day. Some of the instructors in Florida were excellent but there was no policing of the instructors and I know that all of the students in Florida who had the same instructor as I did said exactly the same thing.
He did the same in the air. His demonstrations were very clear, and if I didn't understand something, he talked me through it.
I then went out to Florida to do the rest of my training and thanked God that I had had that first instructor. My instructor in Florida was more intent on having fun in the aircraft himself. He flew it himself for the first 2 hours - told me to sit and watch the view.
He couldn't teach me how to flare. It wasn't just me - there was another guy in exactly the same boat.
When I finally mastered that, with the help of another instructor, I went solo having not done any training for EFATO, stalls, steep turns, slow flight, etc. Basically, my first 14 hours with that guy was spent with him flying the aircraft for the vast majority of the time. He loved showing me how he could get it to fly "backwards" in a strong wind!
I got another, far better and more diligent instructor and went on from there - and completed my training in the 45 hours out there. Fortunately, as I've said, I had that excellent instructor at home who gave me a good grounding in the circuit drills, and who also did some of the handling with me before I left for Florida.
My first instructor was in a school based on an RAF base. The standard of instruction there was excellent and it was the same no matter which instructor you got. They all taught to exactly the same specification.
The contrast between there and the school in Florida was night and day. Some of the instructors in Florida were excellent but there was no policing of the instructors and I know that all of the students in Florida who had the same instructor as I did said exactly the same thing.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northants
Age: 80
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK Llanfair, I'll answer your question! My instructor is VERY much my friend, and since he coaxed me through my Skills Test at East Mids FS a couple of years ago, he has also become a good pal too. We still fly together from time to time, firstly because he's a bloody good instructor and I never stop learning from him, and secondly because we have a damned good laugh! Strange though, I still have to buy the bacon butties wherever we go, though he does handle the radio which he thinks is the quid pro quo!!
Oh yes, and I still have to pay for the aeroplane too!!
Oh yes, and I still have to pay for the aeroplane too!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks to both of you and apologies that the forum went a little bit off track while some of our instructor friends dealt with their egoes and others booked aircraft for the Isle of Man.
The original post was a little toungue in cheek, I really just wanted to know how you felt about the level of instruction from your instructor and how the school/club played their part too.
Machel you man in Florida wasnt an instructor, he was a commentator there are plenty about even over here! Your RAF experience sounds like Woodvale!!!
Chequered flag -- yes sometimes an instructor becomes a very good friend but at the end of the day an instructor isnt realy there to make friends with students he/she is there to teach them to fly. In fact it calls for a lot of social skills and instructional technique to instruct someone you cannot actually stand the sight of. Its always easy to teach people you like.
The original post was a little toungue in cheek, I really just wanted to know how you felt about the level of instruction from your instructor and how the school/club played their part too.
Machel you man in Florida wasnt an instructor, he was a commentator there are plenty about even over here! Your RAF experience sounds like Woodvale!!!
Chequered flag -- yes sometimes an instructor becomes a very good friend but at the end of the day an instructor isnt realy there to make friends with students he/she is there to teach them to fly. In fact it calls for a lot of social skills and instructional technique to instruct someone you cannot actually stand the sight of. Its always easy to teach people you like.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of Oban
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
llanfairpg, my RAF experience was actually at Kinloss - north-east Scotland. They have a set syllabus, and set ways of teaching and all of the instructors have to use the same methods. There's always a briefing before the flight, and always a de-brief.
In Florida, 90% of the time the briefing and de-brief happened in the aircraft while taxiing, if they happened at all. I would be sent out to pre-flight the aircraft while the Instructor wrote up the paperwork for the previous flight with the previous student, and then he would come out and join me when I'd started the aircraft up.
In fact, my first Instructor in Florida hadn't even heard of HASELL or HELL checks! It was news to him when I mentioned them.
I had total confidence in my Instructor at Kinloss - but very little in the first one out in Florida.
I would say, though, if you don't like your Instructor, it can make for an interesting flight. Speaking from experience, if there's mutual dislike, it doesn't bring out the best in the student.
In Florida, 90% of the time the briefing and de-brief happened in the aircraft while taxiing, if they happened at all. I would be sent out to pre-flight the aircraft while the Instructor wrote up the paperwork for the previous flight with the previous student, and then he would come out and join me when I'd started the aircraft up.
In fact, my first Instructor in Florida hadn't even heard of HASELL or HELL checks! It was news to him when I mentioned them.
I had total confidence in my Instructor at Kinloss - but very little in the first one out in Florida.
I would say, though, if you don't like your Instructor, it can make for an interesting flight. Speaking from experience, if there's mutual dislike, it doesn't bring out the best in the student.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Florida, 90% of the time the briefing and de-brief happened in the aircraft while taxiing, if they happened at all. I would be sent out to pre-flight the aircraft while the Instructor wrote up the paperwork for the previous flight with the previous student, and then he would come out and join me when I'd started the aircraft up.
Gordon Brown of George Bush?
The problem with Americans is that they are just not British.
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The trouble with asking students about their instructor is that they're not in the best position to know!
I was a student once, doing my PPL(A). I thought the school was great, and the instructors were great. That was partly because I learned something every lesson. Well, you would, wouldn't you; it would be hard to learn nothing at all when you're starting out! It was also because everyone else said how good he was. Then later on I realised that his instructing 'technique' - yelling at every mistake and acting like an army sergeant major - may have worked for some people, but was probably part of the reason for my very slow progress, as I could never relax.
Move on a couple of years, to my PPL(H). A totally different type of instructor - relaxed, friendly, open, took me for lunch, always made sure he had something positive to say. It took me a long time to realise that I wasn't as good as I thought I was, because he was glossing over any mistakes, so that they became habits. And an even longer time to find out the things he hadn't taught me...because you don't know what it is that you don't know. Some things I didn't find out till my FI course, when the instructor sympathetically told me that I was finding things hard because I'd obviously not been very well taught in the beginning.
Now, as an instructor, I know I'm not perfect, and I won't ever be. I hope I've learned from my instructors' mistakes at least. I try to do my best. But on occasions, being human, I'm rushed, explain something badly, or don't teach as well as I know I can. Do my students get upset? On the contrary, most people are past masters at putting their instructors on pedestals and taking everything positively! Which is nice for us...but is it right for them? Perhaps they should be more critical, shop around more, be more prepared to leave a instructor who isn't absolutely right - after all, you're paying a small fortune to learn to fly. I remember one regular poster on this forum who had to be 'yelled' at by quite a few of us, till he left his obviously unsatisfactory instructor - he thanked us in the end. Someone else posted about having tolerated an instructor with an ego the size of a small country (nice turn of phrase; I've never forgotten it).
Sorry to go on at such length, but this is a very important subject, and I wish I'd found it before it had run to four pages! Llanfair, thanks for bringing it up, and please ignore the idiots who question your motives.
I was a student once, doing my PPL(A). I thought the school was great, and the instructors were great. That was partly because I learned something every lesson. Well, you would, wouldn't you; it would be hard to learn nothing at all when you're starting out! It was also because everyone else said how good he was. Then later on I realised that his instructing 'technique' - yelling at every mistake and acting like an army sergeant major - may have worked for some people, but was probably part of the reason for my very slow progress, as I could never relax.
Move on a couple of years, to my PPL(H). A totally different type of instructor - relaxed, friendly, open, took me for lunch, always made sure he had something positive to say. It took me a long time to realise that I wasn't as good as I thought I was, because he was glossing over any mistakes, so that they became habits. And an even longer time to find out the things he hadn't taught me...because you don't know what it is that you don't know. Some things I didn't find out till my FI course, when the instructor sympathetically told me that I was finding things hard because I'd obviously not been very well taught in the beginning.
Now, as an instructor, I know I'm not perfect, and I won't ever be. I hope I've learned from my instructors' mistakes at least. I try to do my best. But on occasions, being human, I'm rushed, explain something badly, or don't teach as well as I know I can. Do my students get upset? On the contrary, most people are past masters at putting their instructors on pedestals and taking everything positively! Which is nice for us...but is it right for them? Perhaps they should be more critical, shop around more, be more prepared to leave a instructor who isn't absolutely right - after all, you're paying a small fortune to learn to fly. I remember one regular poster on this forum who had to be 'yelled' at by quite a few of us, till he left his obviously unsatisfactory instructor - he thanked us in the end. Someone else posted about having tolerated an instructor with an ego the size of a small country (nice turn of phrase; I've never forgotten it).
Sorry to go on at such length, but this is a very important subject, and I wish I'd found it before it had run to four pages! Llanfair, thanks for bringing it up, and please ignore the idiots who question your motives.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haven't read the whole thread but here is my little bit.
Most instructors have problems fitting their approach to the student personality type.
The way one would teach a malleable 18 year old who (generally) accepts authority, at least from non-parents, is very different to the way you would teach a 50 year old business/professional person.
The former will accept whatever you tell him. But the latter is well used to dealing with all kinds of people professionally, and will not take any bu11sh*t, will spot a novice instructor from a mile away, and will give him a hard time (usually unintentionally).
I think many low-time instructors have problems with the latter type, and certainly this regularly comes out in the forums and in the instructor press (Flight Training News comes to mind) where, last time I read it, one well known instructor wrote an absolutely scathing piece denigrating business/prof types who turn up in a BMW with an attractive "blonde" woman companion
The unfortunate reality is that the BMW driver is more likely to have the funds and the time to hang in there to the end and eventually buy a plane and end up using his piece of paper for something useful.
Myself, I've had loads of instructors (due to changing schools, training in UK/USA, etc) and some were good and some were bad. I could spot the good ones now but no way could I have done so early on.
Interesting to note that the good ones were either retired ATPs or got airline jobs very fast. The bad ones are forever building hours.
My first instructor had 150 hours total time and even I wondered about that. He is still building hours 8 years later.
Most instructors have problems fitting their approach to the student personality type.
The way one would teach a malleable 18 year old who (generally) accepts authority, at least from non-parents, is very different to the way you would teach a 50 year old business/professional person.
The former will accept whatever you tell him. But the latter is well used to dealing with all kinds of people professionally, and will not take any bu11sh*t, will spot a novice instructor from a mile away, and will give him a hard time (usually unintentionally).
I think many low-time instructors have problems with the latter type, and certainly this regularly comes out in the forums and in the instructor press (Flight Training News comes to mind) where, last time I read it, one well known instructor wrote an absolutely scathing piece denigrating business/prof types who turn up in a BMW with an attractive "blonde" woman companion
The unfortunate reality is that the BMW driver is more likely to have the funds and the time to hang in there to the end and eventually buy a plane and end up using his piece of paper for something useful.
Myself, I've had loads of instructors (due to changing schools, training in UK/USA, etc) and some were good and some were bad. I could spot the good ones now but no way could I have done so early on.
Interesting to note that the good ones were either retired ATPs or got airline jobs very fast. The bad ones are forever building hours.
My first instructor had 150 hours total time and even I wondered about that. He is still building hours 8 years later.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10540
interesting comments but in my experience treating each person as an individual is a better approach, regardless of age. I taught a knighted chairman of industry who at the time was in his early 50s and there could not have been a nicer, gentler character but I can think of a few 18/19 year olds that caused many problems, especially in the 'know it all' department! (sadly I had to bury one)
Again with instructors we had very experienced ex RAF transport command instructor, total disinterest and an appalling instructor just ticking by till 65. When all of our instructors were checked by CFS for cadet training the only one out of 8 who they wouldnt approve was the one with the highest hours, a BA 1-11 skipper.
Thats just jealousy, a common human trait(just look on here). The one thing you need to be able to deal with as an instructor is the amazing complexity of human factors!
Spotting good instructors as you say is difficult when you start out and this is used by many poor instructors to their advantage EG if you are nice to the student, give them a really easy time and allways tell them what they want to hear they will think you are a great instructor. You cannot determine who is a good instructor until you actually first fly with one!
interesting comments but in my experience treating each person as an individual is a better approach, regardless of age. I taught a knighted chairman of industry who at the time was in his early 50s and there could not have been a nicer, gentler character but I can think of a few 18/19 year olds that caused many problems, especially in the 'know it all' department! (sadly I had to bury one)
Again with instructors we had very experienced ex RAF transport command instructor, total disinterest and an appalling instructor just ticking by till 65. When all of our instructors were checked by CFS for cadet training the only one out of 8 who they wouldnt approve was the one with the highest hours, a BA 1-11 skipper.
scathing piece denigrating business/prof types who turn up in a BMW with an attractive "blonde" woman companion
Spotting good instructors as you say is difficult when you start out and this is used by many poor instructors to their advantage EG if you are nice to the student, give them a really easy time and allways tell them what they want to hear they will think you are a great instructor. You cannot determine who is a good instructor until you actually first fly with one!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Essex
Age: 53
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
scathing piece denigrating business/prof types who turn up in a BMW with an attractive "blonde" woman companion
Was it written about me?
I turn up to the airfield in a BMW with an attractive blond wife.
So do I find a ginger haired wife or change the car?
Was it written about me?
I turn up to the airfield in a BMW with an attractive blond wife.
So do I find a ginger haired wife or change the car?
