Downwind Checks ?

[GroundBound]

Does anyone find the downwind checklist (BUMPFFITCH …. etc) as illogical as me?
From a Human Factors standpoint, the checks are done in a non-related order, mixing airframe/engine/fuel checks in a disorganized way.

I try to do my checks in a more grouped way, which I think is more logical and easier to remember – fuel, engine, instruments, airframe, cabin - it also adapts itself to different types. Its easy to remember the categories and there’s only a few items in each category, which also makes it easy to remember.

Fuel

[Pump ON]

Tank selector BOTH / fullest

Quantity Checked

Engine

Mixture RICH

Carb Heat ON

T & Ps Green

Instruments

DI Synch

Altimeter QNH/QFE set

Suction, battery In Green

Airframe

[Prop FINE ]

Flap Set / X degrees / stage-1 …

Landing light ON

Brakes OFF

U/C DOWN / FIXED

CABIN

[Canopy/Hatch Closed / locked]

Harness ON

Any thoughts?
GB

[englishal]

A flow check would be better, say from left to right.

In our plane that would be:

Harnesses / brakes / brief
Check fuel selector (I leave it alone in the circuit, it should be ok becasue of FREDA)
Fuel pump on
Landing Lights On
DG>Compass / Alt
Airspeed check in flap operating range
Mags check BOTH
Temps and pressures, Volts (not much you can do of course if something is amiss except land!)
Carb heat
Throttle
Mixture
Gear (always down )
Approach Flaps

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Does it really matter which one you use, as long as you cover everything you need to, you can call it what you like?

[Rod1]

I use (specific for my aircraft and done from memory)

Brakes off
Mixture
Fuel (sufficient for the go-around)
Fuel pump on
Hatches and harness OK
T’S & P’S ok for the go-around
Carb heat as required
Passenger OK

I do Prop and Flaps on X wind

Rod1

[Comanche250]

Was told something useful which I hadnt really thought about before the other day. When using the BUMPFFICHH checks, Call downwind etc and then straight away put the gear down (obviously this only applies to RG) THEN run though the checks. The reason being if you do the brakes,mixture and the gear check first there is the risk that you just go straight on to the rest of the checks without waiting for the gear to fully extend and lock, obviously if it hasnt gone down and you havent checked its going to be a bit of a surprise on final! If you lower the gear first, you do the Brakes then sort out the Mixture and by the time you come to do the Undercarriage it will be down and you can do a positive check.

Some might say you could just do a different set of checks to avoid the above problem but as Chuffer said, as long as you do them all theres no problem.

C250

[RatherBeFlying]

GUMPS

GUMPS is a landing checklist based on the KISS principle.

Gas -- On [fullest tank]
Undercarriage -- Down if not welded
Mixture -- Rich
Prop -- Fine [if controllable]
Seatbelts -- Check / remind passengers

I add:

Brakes -- Off

and pull Carb Heat just before reducing power turning base.

These days I start with a reminder to be strapped in to the pax / instructor and on turning downwind do a flow through according to the cockpit layout that covers all the above.

In the flow through I put my hand on each item and look at it while calling out where it should be.

In a Citabria and C-172/152, that ends up as:

Master -- On
Mags -- Both On
Mixture -- Rich
Fuel -- On [both]
Brakes -- Off

Best to say out loud even when solo.

[B2N2]

Doesn't matter what you use, as long as you accomplish everything.
Flow checks, acronyms, mnemonics, it's all there to do the same thing.
Take a pick and choose whatever you are most comfortable with.
I highly prefer flow checks since you only have top remember where to start, from there you check everything you come across.
Some airplanes (due to their archaic layout) are better suited for a mnemonic/acronym.
Example; I flew a Mooney a while ago, first flight on type, late 70'ies model.
Weird combo of old and new avionics/guages and dials.
Analog CHT/EGT/turbo temp and digital engine analyser system scattered all over the panel. Didn't even know where to start with a flowcheck.
So back to BUMPFICH/GUMPS on that one.

[Woodenwonder]

Funny thing - I do many of our Club check rides - and wondered why the aeroplane would slide towards the runway (or away from same), the height would be sliding down, and the radio call for downwind would be late.
Then I found the pilots' head was buried in the cockpit, looking for the instruments, and checking the mags and master.......
Stay with BUMPFFHH at most - and look out of the window. Or join me at Jack Brown's Seaplane Base, fly the J3 Cub and use CARS: Carb heat, Area (clear of boats), Rudder (water rudder up), S Straps.
Let's keep it simple please!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

When landing you are descending, this requires reducing power.

Why would you want to move the prop control to full fine and thus increase RPM?

I thought fine pitch was for take off and climb?

What is wrong with moving the prop control to full fine as you flare for the landing? Or just prior to the flare?

[Pilotdom]

EH?, what happens if you need to go around and you havnt got the prop fully fine? Happend in a Mooney once when I was not PIC and the prop wasnt fine and it didnt climb very well at all!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Well if for some I reason have to go around I move the prop RPM from cruise RPM to climb RPM and apply climb power.

Works every time and is no different than going from level flight in cruise power to climb attitude and climb power, except I don't need to move the mixture from lean to rich as it is already in rich from the pre landing check.

What could possibly be wrong with doing it that way?

[Deano777]

Of course it's different than going from cruise power to climb power whilst in the cruise and changing altitudes, you make it sound like the go around is some convoluted event that you can sit back and have cup of tea over, also are your aeroplanes that slick that you can't get them to slow down on finals? the last thing you want to be doing in a sudden go around is faffing about with the props as well as the MAP, but, as they say, whatever floats your boat.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

" the last thing you want to be doing in a sudden go around is faffing about with the props as well as the MAP, but, as they say, whatever floats your boat."

I don't mind discussing these issues with private pilots so lets take it a step further.

What is a " sudden " go around? I can't imagine a situation where a go around would be " sudden " unless you fell asleep during the appproach and when you awoke everything looked sudden.

An airplane flies an approach at a given speed and attitude, a sudden application of power will not change the inertia of the airplane in a split second and sudden application of power will result in a prop surge in RPM as the governor struggles to govern the RPM with the sudden increase of power. There is no logical reason why a pilot can not smoothly move both the prop pitch control and the power control and go from approach power to climb power as you pitch up from the approach attitude to the climbing attitude.

I don't " flaff around with the power levers, I move them smoothly to the position that is needed for the power I want.

I'm not sure what you mean by " whatever floats your boat "

I am in the advanced flight training business and that is what I teach all my students, so far none have refused to be taught that method of power changes and most of my students are very high time pilots.

So I'm willing to discuss this I have outlined my thoughts, can you outline your thoughts and convince me I am doing it wrong?

[Pilotdom]

Heres a sudden go around for you,which is a true event and happend to me. On Final at my home airfield ,approach stable and an aircraft holding at the first intersection waiting for my landing, at 100ft a drainage company 4x4 Crosses the runway unannounced from the second intersection which is right on the numbers,Full power and go-around commenced. Must have been at about 40-50ft when I saw him!

[A and C]

Down wind checks ? not a good idea!

I think it is time for these checks to be re-named, with all the avoidance of "noise sensative areas" that flying seems to involve now I think it is unwise to tie a checklist to geographical part of the flight that might not happen.

It would seem to me that "pre landing check" would be a more realistic name for these checks as there is a danger that if a downwind leg is not flown the downwind checks won't get done.

[Deano777]

Chuck

Nobody said you were doing it wrong, hence the "whatever floats your boat" comment, so don't put words into my mouth, it is a matter of preference, and probably one that is not taught here in the UK, but as you are being pedantic how about this for sudden:-
Scenario, windy day, gusting as well, you are on finals (obviously), you are bouncing around quite considerably, you cross the fence, get down to 100ft, 80ft, 70ft, then WINDSHEER, I have just lost 15kts IAS, I am now something that resembles a brick, and earthbound we are going, apply FULL power quick, phew, just avoided striking the ground. yes that happened to me once a few years ago approaching a small GA airfield in the Midlands, now if you can enlighten me as to what is not sudden about that then I'd be gratified.

The bottom line is, why wait until you are in the flare before applying max RPM? the increase in RPM when you put it forward at a low MAP setting has a negligible effect on your aeroplane anyway, so why not include it in your "REDS BLUES 3 GREENS" check on finals, I just can't see any issues with doing it this way, but I can see "potential" problems doing it when you are in the flare, and personally, and it is personally I think that is a ridiculous time to be applying it, whether you are in the go around or not

[Rod1]

I have had people taxi onto the runway when I was on short finals twice and a helicopter cross in front once, all would be classified as sudden from my perspective! On the other hand I fly the downwind leg with 65% cruse power and prop in cruse mode if I can. I fine it off on X wind and can then abandon the approach at any time I am below circuit height.

I agree very strongly that down wind checks should be kept to the minimum and lookout should be a high priority.

Rod1

[GroundBound]

Some intersting points.

My particular concern was not what its called, GUMPS BUMP or whatever, but that the standard mnemonic used appears to be a non-structured approach. Thus the flow method, advocated by some, would suggest more structure - however, as mentioned, an odd cockpit layout might frustrate that.

Sir Pratt, I take your point, and the order can be changed, with the airframe checks moved to the start of the checks - no problem.

As to using whatever system you want - well, that's OK when you are own your own. But, with instructor or exmainer who is expecting a *standard* BUMPF... or whatever, its do it his/her way, not your own way. In other words having to memorise a disorganised, but standard, sequence, for the sake of it.

GB

[Rod1]

“But, with instructor or examiner who is expecting a *standard* BUMPF”

If I am on a check ride I just sing out the checks as I do them. The instructors do not care provided the items they think are important are included, order unimportant.

Rod1

[Deano777]

When or if you move to commercial flight training (if you haven't already, exuse my ignorance) the examiner on test will expect you to "use all checks as published by the official check list", so if that includes BUMPF etc then that's what he expects you to use.