Worst C172 Landings...
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Worst C172 Landings...
I went up for some touch and goes on C-172 and I did not even do 1 single good landing. All of them were very hard, except for one...
which ended up in 4 bounces!!! it was a nightmare...
I spent 1 hour doing them without not even a single smooth landing.
I noticed that VERY BAD landings were occuring when I used 40 degrees of flaps and for some reason the trim was quite on the downside, which meant that during flare i found the aircraft very heavy.
however when i used 20 flaps, there was only a slight improvmenet... dont know wot i did wrong... just wasnt my day i guess
any comments/views
which ended up in 4 bounces!!! it was a nightmare...
I spent 1 hour doing them without not even a single smooth landing.
I noticed that VERY BAD landings were occuring when I used 40 degrees of flaps and for some reason the trim was quite on the downside, which meant that during flare i found the aircraft very heavy.
however when i used 20 flaps, there was only a slight improvmenet... dont know wot i did wrong... just wasnt my day i guess
any comments/views
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C172 landings
Whilst waiting for my licence to arrive,I decided yesterday to have check ride ( I hate that phrase-anyone got a better one?) in a 172,having done all my training on 150/152's.
The most apparent difference to me was the much lower nose attitude and better forward vis during cruise and climb.Maybe this is what is happening to you if you have flown something different before (like a 150)and you are trying to match the same flare attitude
I felt less aware of flaring in the 172 as I do in a 150.Had 3 landings,flapless,normal and glide and I don't remember the pull force before touchdown being particularly remarkable.
I did notice quite a long hold off even though we had full fuel and 3 POB.
Better luck next time.
MM
The most apparent difference to me was the much lower nose attitude and better forward vis during cruise and climb.Maybe this is what is happening to you if you have flown something different before (like a 150)and you are trying to match the same flare attitude
I felt less aware of flaring in the 172 as I do in a 150.Had 3 landings,flapless,normal and glide and I don't remember the pull force before touchdown being particularly remarkable.
I did notice quite a long hold off even though we had full fuel and 3 POB.
Better luck next time.
MM
Last edited by modelman; 3rd Dec 2006 at 21:01. Reason: mis read original post-thought you were used to 150/152 only.
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Biggest error most people make when landing the 172, especially with no back seaters, is not flaring enough. Watch at any GA field - loads of 3-point landings. That leads to bounces becuase the aeroplane still has airspeed and will rebound into the air and continue to fly.
With power off it takes a mighty pull to get that nose up to hold off before touch down. Leaving a trickle of power on helps, as it makes the elevator more effective.
With power off it takes a mighty pull to get that nose up to hold off before touch down. Leaving a trickle of power on helps, as it makes the elevator more effective.
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Biggest error most people make when landing the 172, especially with no back seaters, is not flaring enough. Watch at any GA field - loads of 3-point landings. That leads to bounces becuase the aeroplane still has airspeed and will rebound into the air and continue to fly.
With power off it takes a mighty pull to get that nose up to hold off before touch down. Leaving a trickle of power on helps, as it makes the elevator more effective.
With power off it takes a mighty pull to get that nose up to hold off before touch down. Leaving a trickle of power on helps, as it makes the elevator more effective.
I fully agree. Well-said.
I in fact did a three point landing probably, followed by the 4 bounces - worst landing of my life.
Also, I had the aircraft trimmed nose down and felt helpless during the flare - another mistake. Next time round I tried flaring a bit more, but the aircraft ballooned.
In fact yes I have about 75 hours on C-152 and with this flight, I have 3 hours on C-172. I will need more training in the flaring part.
Any more C-172-related stories? Seems like an interesting aircraft to discuss.
Keep them coming.
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Not an expert, but have a think about these points, only you'll know whether or not they're relevant.....
1) You mentioned using 40 flap. What was the power setting during the last part of your approach? If you were at or near to idle i.e. a glide approach, with 40 flap then the pitch change to flare would be large and difficult to judge accurately.
2) Regarding the stick force to flare, were you accurately trimmed for the recommended approach speed with Flap 40? I've found similar problems when flaring a PA-28 with full flap (and being out of practice) - I thought I was accurately trimmed but wasn't and only really found out when the control input to flare was much higher than expected.
3) How long was your final approach? I'm not suggesting a 'cross-country' final approach, but did you give yourself enough time to get comfortably aligned and trimmed? Or, was it a rushed, tight circuit?
4) Finally, after 1 hour you must have been pretty fed up. I guess that wouldn't help at all. If you were tense because it wasn't going well, then it would be even more difficult to get a good landing in the bag. Don't press-on with more circuits if it's not your day. Better to make it a shortened trip and try again tomorrow. Just accept that we all make bad landings from time to time and don't let it dent your confidence. Of course, a quick check-ride with an instructor might be all you need.
Hope that helps
WUT
1) You mentioned using 40 flap. What was the power setting during the last part of your approach? If you were at or near to idle i.e. a glide approach, with 40 flap then the pitch change to flare would be large and difficult to judge accurately.
2) Regarding the stick force to flare, were you accurately trimmed for the recommended approach speed with Flap 40? I've found similar problems when flaring a PA-28 with full flap (and being out of practice) - I thought I was accurately trimmed but wasn't and only really found out when the control input to flare was much higher than expected.
3) How long was your final approach? I'm not suggesting a 'cross-country' final approach, but did you give yourself enough time to get comfortably aligned and trimmed? Or, was it a rushed, tight circuit?
4) Finally, after 1 hour you must have been pretty fed up. I guess that wouldn't help at all. If you were tense because it wasn't going well, then it would be even more difficult to get a good landing in the bag. Don't press-on with more circuits if it's not your day. Better to make it a shortened trip and try again tomorrow. Just accept that we all make bad landings from time to time and don't let it dent your confidence. Of course, a quick check-ride with an instructor might be all you need.
Hope that helps
WUT
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Wind Up Turn,
I had problems 1, 2 and 4 for sure. Regarding 1, how d'ya know the power setting for 40 flap and correct trim setting, I never came across such data (e.g. tables or stuff)?
Another factor I could add is that the runway starts off with an up slope and then sharply goes downslope - but didn't affect me with C152. Yeah I surely need some more practice on those landings but as you said - it just won't be the day.
I was practicing short-field initially, but didn't as I found out I need to practice landings!! Mentioning short field, can anyone confirm the minimum speed for takeoff with 10 degree flaps, is it 50 to 55 MPH?
I had problems 1, 2 and 4 for sure. Regarding 1, how d'ya know the power setting for 40 flap and correct trim setting, I never came across such data (e.g. tables or stuff)?
Another factor I could add is that the runway starts off with an up slope and then sharply goes downslope - but didn't affect me with C152. Yeah I surely need some more practice on those landings but as you said - it just won't be the day.
I was practicing short-field initially, but didn't as I found out I need to practice landings!! Mentioning short field, can anyone confirm the minimum speed for takeoff with 10 degree flaps, is it 50 to 55 MPH?
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It sounds like you over-rotated, ie, too much back pressure in the flare or your speed was a little too high. A good landing usually starts on base leg; if you can get the speed right there, and have the aircraft well trimmed, then the rest of the approach and landing should come together nicely.
One thing I've learnt very early on in my training was that if I could see the runway when the aircraft touches down, then I know I haven't got the correct attitude and that I hadn't held off correctly. There's a natural tendency to want to see the runway, so not seeing the runway during the hold-off was something I had to mentally come to terms with. Using peripheral vision to see and feel the sink rate is thus important.
One thing I've learnt very early on in my training was that if I could see the runway when the aircraft touches down, then I know I haven't got the correct attitude and that I hadn't held off correctly. There's a natural tendency to want to see the runway, so not seeing the runway during the hold-off was something I had to mentally come to terms with. Using peripheral vision to see and feel the sink rate is thus important.
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Another factor I could add is that the runway starts off with an up slope and then sharply goes downslope
Mike
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Keep it simple, 65 knots suffices quite happily for the 172 on the approach and then flare, flare flare! Get that yoke back!!, all the way!!, and wait for the stall warner, dont let it down til its whistling at you! You've got to git rid of airspeed! Try flying some tailwheel, that'll teach you to hold off landings. People will give you all sots of theories, just keep it simple, a 172 just like a pa28, piece of cake
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MIKECR,
C172 and PA28 landings are as you say a piece of cake, but totally different. PA28 floats more due to the low wing and ground effect. C172 with it's massive flaps40 has a much larger pitch change in the flare.
As a C172 (Model C!) driver, I try to reserve flaps40 for when I'm over the fence and committed to landing, when it will lower the touchdown speed and lengthen the life of the tyres. Of course if one is a tadge high on approach then flaps40 is very useful, but once it's on avoid taking it off again until you're safely down. You're then dependant on throttle alone to maintain glideslope.
And of course flaps40 is a no-no in anything approaching a reasonable x-wind.
C172 and PA28 landings are as you say a piece of cake, but totally different. PA28 floats more due to the low wing and ground effect. C172 with it's massive flaps40 has a much larger pitch change in the flare.
As a C172 (Model C!) driver, I try to reserve flaps40 for when I'm over the fence and committed to landing, when it will lower the touchdown speed and lengthen the life of the tyres. Of course if one is a tadge high on approach then flaps40 is very useful, but once it's on avoid taking it off again until you're safely down. You're then dependant on throttle alone to maintain glideslope.
And of course flaps40 is a no-no in anything approaching a reasonable x-wind.
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Yes, I absolutely agree. When I meant they were like one another to land, I meant the simpleness of it rather than the handling characteristics. Flaps 40 on the 172 are pretty much barn doors and do cause you to come down like a tonne of bricks. You have to be fairly firm with the flare to arrest the sink rate or keep the power on a bit longer. You can still easily pull off a nice flare though, stall warning going, even with the 40 set.
Unless I have significant x wind or perhaps a contaminated runway, then I land in exactly the same fashion every time, whether its tricycle or tailwheel, or even the various gliders I fly. Nail the approach speed and then last 50 feet - slowly decrease power, slowly bring the nose back and then last 5 feet or so, hold, hold, hold! Get that yoke or stick all the way back, dont let it drop, kick of any drift and wait for a few seconds of stall warner. A fully held of landing every time, and not rocket science.
Unless I have significant x wind or perhaps a contaminated runway, then I land in exactly the same fashion every time, whether its tricycle or tailwheel, or even the various gliders I fly. Nail the approach speed and then last 50 feet - slowly decrease power, slowly bring the nose back and then last 5 feet or so, hold, hold, hold! Get that yoke or stick all the way back, dont let it drop, kick of any drift and wait for a few seconds of stall warner. A fully held of landing every time, and not rocket science.
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Fully agree. That's a very very common situation - My mistake is usually that I come with a higher speed than supposed to during the approach. In addition, having trained and flown 152 for some time, you get used to flying a quite forgiving aircraft as regards to anything really.
When it comes to slightly larger aircraft such as 172, some of those forgiving events are not present in the 172. Approach speed is one of them.
Also I noted that the propwash on the fin creates a larger degree of left-turning tendency - of course this is due to the higher BHP the 172 has.
I agree that pilots having flown a lot of hourse on the 152 would find the 172 tricky during their first few flights with it, as happened in my case.
3 hours is a bit soon for 40 flap landings in a C-172. Start with 20 flap and when you have that working, move on to a dozen landings with 30; then move on to 40.
Having to first flare against an upslope and then convert that to fit the subsequent downslope is a bit of a trick when learning a new type. You may want to visit an easier runway for touch and goes until you are better acquainted with the C-172. In my own case, I checked out in a Citabria on a 1900' strip with a downslope and dropoffs on both ends this Spring. For touch and goes, I'm taking it to a 5000' x 100' runway for the time being.
Back to the C-172 vs. the C-152. The biggest difference is that in the C-152, you were flying close to gross weight. One up in a C-172 is a significantly smaller percentage of gross than you have experienced in a C-152. The book approach speed for full gross does lead to a bunch of float when solo. Not having people in the rear seats puts you in more of a forward CG condition than you have experienced in the C-152 which means you need more pitch force to flare.
40 flaps requires a bunch more nose down to maintain airspeed; so, you have a longer way to rotate in the flare against the aforementioned forward CG condition. When you do get to 40 flap approaches, remember to get the trim set well before the flare.
Once you are used to it, you will find that the C-172 flies a power off approach with 40 flaps just fine as long as you do not put on full flaps too soon
Don't forget the carb heat
Having to first flare against an upslope and then convert that to fit the subsequent downslope is a bit of a trick when learning a new type. You may want to visit an easier runway for touch and goes until you are better acquainted with the C-172. In my own case, I checked out in a Citabria on a 1900' strip with a downslope and dropoffs on both ends this Spring. For touch and goes, I'm taking it to a 5000' x 100' runway for the time being.
Back to the C-172 vs. the C-152. The biggest difference is that in the C-152, you were flying close to gross weight. One up in a C-172 is a significantly smaller percentage of gross than you have experienced in a C-152. The book approach speed for full gross does lead to a bunch of float when solo. Not having people in the rear seats puts you in more of a forward CG condition than you have experienced in the C-152 which means you need more pitch force to flare.
40 flaps requires a bunch more nose down to maintain airspeed; so, you have a longer way to rotate in the flare against the aforementioned forward CG condition. When you do get to 40 flap approaches, remember to get the trim set well before the flare.
Once you are used to it, you will find that the C-172 flies a power off approach with 40 flaps just fine as long as you do not put on full flaps too soon
Don't forget the carb heat
Wind Up Turn,
I had problems 1, 2 and 4 for sure. Regarding 1, how d'ya know the power setting for 40 flap and correct trim setting, I never came across such data (e.g. tables or stuff)?
Another factor I could add is that the runway starts off with an up slope and then sharply goes downslope - but didn't affect me with C152. Yeah I surely need some more practice on those landings but as you said - it just won't be the day.
I was practicing short-field initially, but didn't as I found out I need to practice landings!! Mentioning short field, can anyone confirm the minimum speed for takeoff with 10 degree flaps, is it 50 to 55 MPH?
I had problems 1, 2 and 4 for sure. Regarding 1, how d'ya know the power setting for 40 flap and correct trim setting, I never came across such data (e.g. tables or stuff)?
Another factor I could add is that the runway starts off with an up slope and then sharply goes downslope - but didn't affect me with C152. Yeah I surely need some more practice on those landings but as you said - it just won't be the day.
I was practicing short-field initially, but didn't as I found out I need to practice landings!! Mentioning short field, can anyone confirm the minimum speed for takeoff with 10 degree flaps, is it 50 to 55 MPH?
Anyhow, important thing - approach speed. It's in the manual (I'd hesitate to say what I think it is, because there are so many subtle variations of C172 - so look in the manual for the aircraft you are flying). [Same applies to any other speed, do not take anybody here's word for it, nor any proprietary checklist - USE THE BOOK THAT HAS "CESSNA" AND THE RIGHT REGISTRATION ON THE FRONT.]
Next, for the right approach speed / flap setting, get the pitch attitude right. If you fly a consistent (and correct) attitude until the roundout, most other things will slot into place.
Trim setting - you don't need tables, trim so that the aircraft flies the right approach speed / pitch attitude hands off, if you don't, you are just creating work for yourself, and increasing the risk of getting the wrong pitch attitude when workload goes up near the ground / doing RT / etc.
Finally - set power to give you the touchdown point - if speed and attitude are right, and the aeroplane is trimmed, then tweak power to keep your touchdown point stationary in your field of view.
And finally, it's a VFR aeroplane with a reasonable view and plenty of attitude / feel cues - try and get a feel for it, don't try to fly by numbers - it'll do you no favours. I'm sure, like the rest of us, when learning you got shouted at for fixating at the dials (I'm sure that I did anyhow) - there was a reason for that. This is particularly true in the roundout and flare, the C172 is not designed to be flown by the numbers - feel the ground effect, feel the (large!) stick force, and keep easing it back just off the ground until it lands itself - do not tell it when to land, let it tell you.
G
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Everyone else commenting here is much more experienced than me, but my two penn'orth as a taildragger pilot: speed, speed, speed. Carry too much speed into the flare and you're screwed as far as a decent landing goes.
Also, way on the back of the drag curve with flap 40 you may well get a nasty bang and bounce if you flare too high and it drops rapidly, in which case if you do get that feeling trickle in a bit of power as it drops. But four bounces? Sounds like too much speed.
Anyway, take this with a pinch of salt, but I offer it as food for thought, along with everyone else.
Also, way on the back of the drag curve with flap 40 you may well get a nasty bang and bounce if you flare too high and it drops rapidly, in which case if you do get that feeling trickle in a bit of power as it drops. But four bounces? Sounds like too much speed.
Anyway, take this with a pinch of salt, but I offer it as food for thought, along with everyone else.
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And finally, it's a VFR aeroplane with a reasonable view and plenty of attitude / feel cues - try and get a feel for it, don't try to fly by numbers - it'll do you no favours. I'm sure, like the rest of us, when learning you got shouted at for fixating at the dials (I'm sure that I did anyhow) - there was a reason for that.
)re. 172 vs. 152, i find that the visual cues are much different. the 152 feels like being seated in an F1 car, whereas the 172 feels like a big jeep. the forces are higher, it reacts a bit slower, and it doesn't like to come down. (well, the one i first flew after the 152 had an upgraded engine, and flaps 40 were disabled). needless to say, i floated for a while, even though i started at the same height/distance i might have in the 152 with full flaps.
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Hi PPL152,
There's lots of good advice here. You're on the right path with your practice, keep with it, and don't be put off. Good judgement comes from experience - experience comes from bad judgement.
The problems which you are having are perhaps a bit more noticeable on the C172, but pretty common to most low wing loading nosewheel types. You've got too much speed at touchdown. If you're not hearing the stall horn peeping at touchdown, or imediately after, you're too fast. Fly the plane by feel, not fixated on the airspeed. This skill will prove very well worth the practice when an instructor simulates a complete electrical failure during night flying training, and you have to land with no instrument lights (or flaps) at all. (It happens for real too!)
But back to your challenge... Try these: Lots of soft field takeoffs - even if the field is not soft. It'll get you used to the proper nose high attitude on the ground, and the lower speed getting airborne. You can feel the nose wheel come off the ground (in the pedals), once it is just off, hold that attitude, and memorize it. Don't raise the nose anymore, because banging the tail tiedown ring on the ground is a very real possibility. It's bad for the plane, and your pride - not to mention your wallet if you hit it more than a scuff. Also, Practice (at a safe altitude) very slow flight with full flaps. The C172 has excellent low speed control, get used to making the best of it. If it stalls, don;t worry about it, but don;t let it spin, the recovery is hard on the flaps at 40.
When it comes to landing, assure that every landing you do (forever) follows a stabilized approach which has you crossing the numbers at the correct height above the ground and airspeed. Not 10 feet too high and 10 knots too fast. Once you have this under control, you have assured yourself that the aircraft is going to consume about the amount of runway that Cessna's flight manual says it will. So what's your hurry to be on the ground? You want to be flying don't you? If you decelerate in the air, rather than on the ground, you reduce tire and brake wear, and assure no bounces. If the plane touches down at the lowest possible airspeed, it is about to stall. This is what you want, because it can't fly anymore! If it cannot fly, it cannot bounce! If during this beautiful slow flight mere feet above the runway, you feel that you're about to stall, and drop, do not lower the nose, just add a bit of power. If you've reached that attitude, there's a good chance that you're going to have to carry that power setting to touchdown, and maybe even add a bit more. Within reason, this is just fine, but you're at the limit of a safe landing at this point. After you touch, continue to hold the nose up. it helps slow you down faster, and prevents nosegear shimmy and damage. Don't just let go of the controls once you're down - it makes it look like you suddenly lost interest in flying!
Avoid this kind of flying with anyone in the back seat for the first while. You'll get the feel much better if you're more forward C of G. If the trim is all the way nose up...okay. You're willing to put a bit of muscle into the flare right? With weight in the back, striking the tail on the ground is quite easy, and the "feel" is harder to detect.
In a C172, there is NEVER any need to push on the controls during the landing. If the aircraft is that far out of trim, there is no way you could have flown an approach at all. You will never be pushing to recover a stall, 'cause you'll be dropping too fast already. For the new pilot, short runways can get to look even shorter half way through a landing. Did you check the runway length in the flight manual? Enough? then it will be fine - don't start worrying over the numbers, it's a bit late then!
I once landed into a 1200' runway in a C182, an hour after a guy wrecked a C172 on the same runway (only hurt the plane and his pride). He had landed with only 20 flap, and bit too fast. The only witness to this poor technique (who was not a pilot) asked me "aren't the brakes on the main wheels? They wern't on the ground, only the nose wheel". It would seem that the pilot was worrying so much about getting stopped, that he figured pushing forward on the controls would help. Nope!
I began to understand these concepts when, after what I though was a very precise landing in a C172, the instructor next to me said "nice landing, though a bit fast, do it again - more slowly this time" hauled the poor plane back into the air, and let go of the controls. With the power off, and suddenly 10 feet in the air, I got my act together fast! If I'd landed at the proper speed in the first place, it would have stayed on the runway, and just the stall horn would have wailed when he pulled!
Minimum takeoff airspeed with 10 flap is a soft field takeoff. It should be very well known to you as a feeling, not an indication on an instrument - 'cause you'll be watching outside the whole time! The plane will fly when it is ready. Even if the stall horn is peeping, don't worry, it's very safe as long as you maintain control. Once airborne, let it accellerate in ground effect. By the way, it's less than 50MPH.
Once you master the feel of the plane in the flare, and you are able to hold it there, and hold it off the ground, you will find landing other types of aircraft not too much a challenge. This technique works on most civil types.
Keep working to improve your skills, it will come more naturally soon,
Cheers, Pilot DAR
There's lots of good advice here. You're on the right path with your practice, keep with it, and don't be put off. Good judgement comes from experience - experience comes from bad judgement.
The problems which you are having are perhaps a bit more noticeable on the C172, but pretty common to most low wing loading nosewheel types. You've got too much speed at touchdown. If you're not hearing the stall horn peeping at touchdown, or imediately after, you're too fast. Fly the plane by feel, not fixated on the airspeed. This skill will prove very well worth the practice when an instructor simulates a complete electrical failure during night flying training, and you have to land with no instrument lights (or flaps) at all. (It happens for real too!)
But back to your challenge... Try these: Lots of soft field takeoffs - even if the field is not soft. It'll get you used to the proper nose high attitude on the ground, and the lower speed getting airborne. You can feel the nose wheel come off the ground (in the pedals), once it is just off, hold that attitude, and memorize it. Don't raise the nose anymore, because banging the tail tiedown ring on the ground is a very real possibility. It's bad for the plane, and your pride - not to mention your wallet if you hit it more than a scuff. Also, Practice (at a safe altitude) very slow flight with full flaps. The C172 has excellent low speed control, get used to making the best of it. If it stalls, don;t worry about it, but don;t let it spin, the recovery is hard on the flaps at 40.
When it comes to landing, assure that every landing you do (forever) follows a stabilized approach which has you crossing the numbers at the correct height above the ground and airspeed. Not 10 feet too high and 10 knots too fast. Once you have this under control, you have assured yourself that the aircraft is going to consume about the amount of runway that Cessna's flight manual says it will. So what's your hurry to be on the ground? You want to be flying don't you? If you decelerate in the air, rather than on the ground, you reduce tire and brake wear, and assure no bounces. If the plane touches down at the lowest possible airspeed, it is about to stall. This is what you want, because it can't fly anymore! If it cannot fly, it cannot bounce! If during this beautiful slow flight mere feet above the runway, you feel that you're about to stall, and drop, do not lower the nose, just add a bit of power. If you've reached that attitude, there's a good chance that you're going to have to carry that power setting to touchdown, and maybe even add a bit more. Within reason, this is just fine, but you're at the limit of a safe landing at this point. After you touch, continue to hold the nose up. it helps slow you down faster, and prevents nosegear shimmy and damage. Don't just let go of the controls once you're down - it makes it look like you suddenly lost interest in flying!
Avoid this kind of flying with anyone in the back seat for the first while. You'll get the feel much better if you're more forward C of G. If the trim is all the way nose up...okay. You're willing to put a bit of muscle into the flare right? With weight in the back, striking the tail on the ground is quite easy, and the "feel" is harder to detect.
In a C172, there is NEVER any need to push on the controls during the landing. If the aircraft is that far out of trim, there is no way you could have flown an approach at all. You will never be pushing to recover a stall, 'cause you'll be dropping too fast already. For the new pilot, short runways can get to look even shorter half way through a landing. Did you check the runway length in the flight manual? Enough? then it will be fine - don't start worrying over the numbers, it's a bit late then!
I once landed into a 1200' runway in a C182, an hour after a guy wrecked a C172 on the same runway (only hurt the plane and his pride). He had landed with only 20 flap, and bit too fast. The only witness to this poor technique (who was not a pilot) asked me "aren't the brakes on the main wheels? They wern't on the ground, only the nose wheel". It would seem that the pilot was worrying so much about getting stopped, that he figured pushing forward on the controls would help. Nope!
I began to understand these concepts when, after what I though was a very precise landing in a C172, the instructor next to me said "nice landing, though a bit fast, do it again - more slowly this time" hauled the poor plane back into the air, and let go of the controls. With the power off, and suddenly 10 feet in the air, I got my act together fast! If I'd landed at the proper speed in the first place, it would have stayed on the runway, and just the stall horn would have wailed when he pulled!
Minimum takeoff airspeed with 10 flap is a soft field takeoff. It should be very well known to you as a feeling, not an indication on an instrument - 'cause you'll be watching outside the whole time! The plane will fly when it is ready. Even if the stall horn is peeping, don't worry, it's very safe as long as you maintain control. Once airborne, let it accellerate in ground effect. By the way, it's less than 50MPH.
Once you master the feel of the plane in the flare, and you are able to hold it there, and hold it off the ground, you will find landing other types of aircraft not too much a challenge. This technique works on most civil types.
Keep working to improve your skills, it will come more naturally soon,
Cheers, Pilot DAR
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Many thanks for all your replies!
I am currently training short-field landings and takeoffs in my local airport, as later on this month I'll be going for a navigation flight to an airfield with a 680m long runway. Does anyone recommend 40 flap? Or will it be ok with 20?
I'll be going up again locally for some more training and will let you know how it went. I'm sure I'll be fine after reading the very valid comments.
I am currently training short-field landings and takeoffs in my local airport, as later on this month I'll be going for a navigation flight to an airfield with a 680m long runway. Does anyone recommend 40 flap? Or will it be ok with 20?
I'll be going up again locally for some more training and will let you know how it went. I'm sure I'll be fine after reading the very valid comments.