The Average UK GA PPL?
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From: Lyon
Like here in Oct 2003. or again here in 2004.
Bit of a shame really.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: NW England
So are we being taken in by yet another internet Charlaton troll??
Oh my God - not again - how totally f*****g sad some people are.
what is the point.
My God look how many posts he's made !! Surely it's not just one big fabrication? Makes you want to give up posting doesn't it.
Oh my God - not again - how totally f*****g sad some people are.
what is the point.
My God look how many posts he's made !! Surely it's not just one big fabrication? Makes you want to give up posting doesn't it.
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From: EuroGA.org
Not sure why pick on somebody for flying airways before they got an IR. Loads of people do that. They just make sure there is an IR in the RHS. Also, which IR? Some people have more than one IR but need different planes for exercising the privileges of each one 
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: NW England
Bose
Please tell me/us what you do? I am not trying to catch you out - I just want to restore my faith in bulletin boards and I don't want to believe I have been taken in by a troll and I dearly want to know that you are genuine.
What aircraft do you fly? where do you fly from? How did you get your 500 hours ME? Surely that was not less than £100/hour to get?
I want to believe you are a lottery winner, or just plainly a very wealthy person who does not need to work much to fund a significant amount of flying.
After reading this thread last nght I was really annoyed but this morning I just want to know if you are for real - I am, and I like to think that I communicate with equally real people.
Please tell me/us what you do? I am not trying to catch you out - I just want to restore my faith in bulletin boards and I don't want to believe I have been taken in by a troll and I dearly want to know that you are genuine.
What aircraft do you fly? where do you fly from? How did you get your 500 hours ME? Surely that was not less than £100/hour to get?
I want to believe you are a lottery winner, or just plainly a very wealthy person who does not need to work much to fund a significant amount of flying.
After reading this thread last nght I was really annoyed but this morning I just want to know if you are for real - I am, and I like to think that I communicate with equally real people.
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From: Lyon
Spot on! 
And I've never pretended to be anything else.
Sure, but very few write "I am an instrument rated pilot" before they have even a single IR. Even when they do subsequently get an IR (which is a huge achievement for any private pilot), I find it impossible to read subsequent claims about experience and currency without remembering the original exaggeration.
And I've never pretended to be anything else.Sure, but very few write "I am an instrument rated pilot" before they have even a single IR. Even when they do subsequently get an IR (which is a huge achievement for any private pilot), I find it impossible to read subsequent claims about experience and currency without remembering the original exaggeration.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Midlands
IO540
The drop out rate of PPL’s is, as we know, very high. If my guess on the average is roughly correct, then I agree, more will drop out. It is necessary to understand the problem in order to start to design a fix to improve the situation. I was using the BBS to see if my base assumption was reasonable and get some amusement from the progression.
I would guess that in order to fly the average hours, buy maps, do check rides etc an expenditure of 2k, possibly slightly more is likely, pa.
I used to know two retired gents who would fly min hours a year under the old rules. Both would turn up and do check rides in a 4 seater with the other in the back. They would then fly 5 hours each P1 with the other in the aircraft. As soon as both had the 5 hours, normally 1 to 2 weeks, both would vanish to the next year. During the 5 hours each they would practice all aspects of the basic PPL. They kept this up for many years, but JAR finished them off, along with many others.
Rod1
The drop out rate of PPL’s is, as we know, very high. If my guess on the average is roughly correct, then I agree, more will drop out. It is necessary to understand the problem in order to start to design a fix to improve the situation. I was using the BBS to see if my base assumption was reasonable and get some amusement from the progression.
I would guess that in order to fly the average hours, buy maps, do check rides etc an expenditure of 2k, possibly slightly more is likely, pa.
I used to know two retired gents who would fly min hours a year under the old rules. Both would turn up and do check rides in a 4 seater with the other in the back. They would then fly 5 hours each P1 with the other in the aircraft. As soon as both had the 5 hours, normally 1 to 2 weeks, both would vanish to the next year. During the 5 hours each they would practice all aspects of the basic PPL. They kept this up for many years, but JAR finished them off, along with many others.
Rod1
Last edited by Rod1; 29th November 2006 at 07:57.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
how long do you think it will be before a 15 hour/year pilot renting the typical piece of flying scrap metal is going to say to himself (literally or subconsciously) : "this hobby is such a huge hassle, it costs me so much money to do the 15hrs, I get so little in return for it, I have such poor currency that I can't go anywhere, nobody but absolute anoraks wants to fly with me in the piece of crap that I can get, a lot of people politely refuse to fly with me because they are horrified at going up with a 15hr pilot (**), there is close to zero crumpet hanging around this scene AND/OR my wife/gf can't see the point of me doing this since I never take her anywhere nice... I might just chuck it in and put the £1500 towards an upmarket gym membership and an upmarket tennis club membership (both of which will provide much better scenery)"
Everyone is different. You don't have to agree with someone's point of view to understand and respect it. Does yet another thread have to turn into "there are those who do my sort of flying, and the stupid ignorant fools who'll probably give up anyway".
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Cumbernauld
Hi folks I am reasonably new to flying and have flown around 60 hours in the past year since gaining my license. Some of the time has been on my own due to being off at odd times (mid week) and the rest has been with friends etc. Both my son and my wife have never been in my plane "dont see the point" but she doesnt complain at the costs involved. I have recently purchased a PFA type single seater and reduced costs even further to the point I fly several times a week only limited by weather/light.
What is typical I suppose is the small percentage of people who have dreamt of gaining a license and on achieving their goal stop and file it away as just something else ticked off their list of things to do in life!
What is typical I suppose is the small percentage of people who have dreamt of gaining a license and on achieving their goal stop and file it away as just something else ticked off their list of things to do in life!
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
WB
Not sure how you concluded
You don't have to agree with someone's point of view to understand and respect it. Does yet another thread have to turn into "there are those who do my sort of flying, and the stupid ignorant fools who'll probably give up anyway".
from what I wrote. Obviously I was writing tongue in cheek (as I do so frequently); everybody knows that not everybody is into gyms and tennis or whatever.
The "slight" problem that you are left with is how to explain the PPL churn rate.
My main point is that it is driven not by cost (i.e. budget shortage) but by a lack of return.
But we have done this one to death before...
Not sure how you concluded
You don't have to agree with someone's point of view to understand and respect it. Does yet another thread have to turn into "there are those who do my sort of flying, and the stupid ignorant fools who'll probably give up anyway".
from what I wrote. Obviously I was writing tongue in cheek (as I do so frequently); everybody knows that not everybody is into gyms and tennis or whatever.
The "slight" problem that you are left with is how to explain the PPL churn rate.
My main point is that it is driven not by cost (i.e. budget shortage) but by a lack of return.
But we have done this one to death before...
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Europe
Spot on! And I've never pretended to be anything else.
Sure, but very few write "I am an instrument rated pilot" before they have even a single IR. Even when they do subsequently get an IR (which is a huge achievement for any private pilot), I find it impossible to read subsequent claims about experience and currency without remembering the original exaggeration.
And I've never pretended to be anything else.Sure, but very few write "I am an instrument rated pilot" before they have even a single IR. Even when they do subsequently get an IR (which is a huge achievement for any private pilot), I find it impossible to read subsequent claims about experience and currency without remembering the original exaggeration.
The unfortunate truth is that some people use either a poetic licence or just post blatant untruths on these internet forums.
Why?
I would love to know that too.......
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From: Lyon
But lets see the IMC holders start screaming when you tell them they are not Instrument rated.....A lot of what you say is sensible, and people who've flown with you say you're a good pilot. There's no doubt that you are experienced and current, but what you say would carry a lot more weight if you hadn't made so many misleading posts in the past.
BTW, do you own the Reims Rocket outright? Just asking, again.
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: SE England
Bose, without knowing either yourself or adrian, I just want to point out that in Oct '03 as adrian linked earlier you specifically said:
"I only went from the IMC to IR to allow class A and non UK flight and there is nothing wrong with the IMC otherwise. Take it from me there is nothing different between the instrument skills on an IMC and the instrument skills on an IR..."
Don't really want to get any further involved in this, but it just seems that your last argument there is made a little weaker, because you clearly made the distinction there that it was an IR you had, and NOT an IMC.
"I only went from the IMC to IR to allow class A and non UK flight and there is nothing wrong with the IMC otherwise. Take it from me there is nothing different between the instrument skills on an IMC and the instrument skills on an IR..."
Don't really want to get any further involved in this, but it just seems that your last argument there is made a little weaker, because you clearly made the distinction there that it was an IR you had, and NOT an IMC.
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Lyon
I'm as uninterested in the financing as I am in what sort of car you drive!
Most people would probably have said "I own a share in a Reims rocket 172 and a Seneca" (assuming they were sure about the Seneca, of course. ). But then most people would find discussion of their misleading posting (or worse) to be embarassing rather than ego-boosting.
Anyway, this seems like a suitable point to stop the thread drift. Apologies in advance if I pick you up on any future inconsistencies!
Most people would probably have said "I own a share in a Reims rocket 172 and a Seneca" (assuming they were sure about the Seneca, of course.
). But then most people would find discussion of their misleading posting (or worse) to be embarassing rather than ego-boosting. Anyway, this seems like a suitable point to stop the thread drift. Apologies in advance if I pick you up on any future inconsistencies!
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From: NW England
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
IO540,
Not sure I can explain....but I'll try.
Firstly, it wasn't aimed just at you. I felt like quite a few people were saying that their sort of flying was the only one that counted.
However, I guess I'm just a bit tired of your constant refrain - people give up flying because school aircraft are crap and the people in flying clubs are all anoraks. How many more times are you going to post something to that effect? We all heard you the first time...and the tenth...and the hundredth. And I for one am sick of being called an anorak, even if only by implication. I disagree with you, I've rarely seen any evidence that you're right, but frankly, I'm tired of the whole argument. As you said,
Yes, we have, so please give it a rest.
Not sure how you concluded
"You don't have to agree with someone's point of view to understand and respect it. Does yet another thread have to turn into "there are those who do my sort of flying, and the stupid ignorant fools who'll probably give up anyway". from what I wrote.
"You don't have to agree with someone's point of view to understand and respect it. Does yet another thread have to turn into "there are those who do my sort of flying, and the stupid ignorant fools who'll probably give up anyway". from what I wrote.
Firstly, it wasn't aimed just at you. I felt like quite a few people were saying that their sort of flying was the only one that counted.
However, I guess I'm just a bit tired of your constant refrain - people give up flying because school aircraft are crap and the people in flying clubs are all anoraks. How many more times are you going to post something to that effect? We all heard you the first time...and the tenth...and the hundredth. And I for one am sick of being called an anorak, even if only by implication. I disagree with you, I've rarely seen any evidence that you're right, but frankly, I'm tired of the whole argument. As you said,
But we have done this one to death before...